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Can anyone help me answer this question about actions during a phase


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So I have a PC and a NPC both going on the same phase. One PC wants to use Mega Scale Flight to move out of range of the NPC's bow. Now because he using Mega Scale I believe that His action to move at 48,000km is happening at the same time. SO as he is flying out he would still be with in range but his DCV would go up. I rolled she got three one's so I said she hit. He is not trying to tell me no everything does not happen at the same time. 

 

Can some one tell me if all the action during a single phase happen at the same time which explains why he would still be in range for a shot happening the same phase. 

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First you need to find out which character has the higher DEX which determines the Initiative for that Phase.

 

IF the character attempting to move has the higher DEX, THEN they get to move before the attack.

 

IF they both have the SAME Dex THEN a DEX vs. DEX roll needs to be made to see who has the Initiative. 

 

IF the Attacker wins the DEX roll off OR already has the higher DEX, THEN the character attempting to move can only do so as a Defensive Abort action which would require the use of the Dive For Cover Maneuver (which imposes penalties based on how FAR they try to move) OR the Flying Dodge Maneuver*.  Also, characters cannot Abort to a non-combat movement ability; it must be their Combat movement.

 

*Flying Dodge is a special Martial Arts Maneuver typically only available to speedsters. It does NOT have a 'real world' equivalent according to UMA5e or HSMA6e.

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First you need to find out which character has the higher DEX which determines the Initiative for that Phase.

 

IF the character attempting to move has the higher DEX, THEN they get to move before the attack.

 

IF they both have the SAME Dex THEN a DEX vs. DEX roll needs to be made to see who has the Initiative. 

 

IF the Attacker wins the DEX roll off OR already has the higher DEX, THEN the character attempting to move can only do so as a Defensive Abort action which would require the use of the Dive For Cover Maneuver (which imposes penalties based on how FAR they try to move) OR the Flying Dodge Maneuver*.  Also, characters cannot Abort to a non-combat movement ability; it must be their Combat movement.

 

*Flying Dodge is a special Martial Arts Maneuver typically only available to speedsters. It does NOT have a 'real world' equivalent according to UMA5e or HSMA6e.

 

If mega scale is full phase does that not mean it takes them a full phase to get to the max range and if the phase is not done yet before someone attacks then could they not hit ?

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Even 1 meter of a movement ability with the Megascale Advantage gets turned into >Mach 1 velocity if the character has a 6 SPD.

 

IF we are assuming the Mega-Mover character gets to go first and only gets to move 1/20th of their full Non-Combat move before the other character attacks we are still talking about a minimum distance of at least 50 meters (thats where 1 meter becomes 1 kilometer or 1000 meters). IF it was 10m movement with Megascale that becomes a 1/20th distance of 500 meters!

 

IF the megamover does not get to go first though they cannot abort to megascale movement as a defensive action.

 

Initiative is the real question here.

 

Unless The Flash/Quicksilver is surprised he is not going to have a problem dealing with Green Arrow/Hawkeye.

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If mega scale is full phase does that not mean it takes them a full phase to get to the max range and if the phase is not done yet before someone attacks then could they not hit ?

The basic concept to understand is that the phases are not simultaneous. While both characters act in the same segment, whoever goes first gets their action (phase), then the other person. It is perfectly valid for a character who goes first to move out of the range of an opponent, even if that takes their full phase to do so. Hyper-Man's explanation is spot-on.

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Ok so what is the point of a DCV thing for velocity if you could just get out of most peoples range before they can shoot at you ?

There isn't any. But most characters can't get out of range of ranged attacks before they can be shot at, so there needs to be a DCV for movement in the rules because it's harder to hit a fast-moving target if they are in range.

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For ease of game play, we accept that each character's action happens in a sequence, rather than trying to measure the specific point in any given second when each action is taken. We don't, for example, have a 6 SPD character who chooses to make a full move in Phase 4 pro rate the distance between segment 4 (from his DEX to end of phase), Phase 5 (half the move, pro rated between the various DEXs of other characters moving in Phase 5) and Phase 6 (to get to just before his DEX in that phase). We sacrifice this level of simulation accuracy on the alter of playability.

 

We also don't try to measure how long it takes that Archer to draw his bow, select and nock an arrow, sight his target, take aim, draw his bowstring and fire. It all happens at once, again in the interests of easing game play.

 

Why would velocity matter? That character might swoop through the combat area when someone has a phase reserved and chooses to use it to fire on the attacker. A fast character who whips in and out of combat might cause characters to carefully sweep the horizon waiting for a chance to take their shot. Then, that velocity based DCV can be important.

 

To Megascale specifically, it is not intended for combat use (see 6er p 285). As well, the rules for acceleration and deceleration apply to Megascale - instantaneous acceleration to full speed is possible only with a +1 Advantage. The acceleration and deceleration rules are commonly ignored, though.

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Velocity Based DCV is an OPTIONAL rule. You don't have to allow it.

 

I don't think that I would allow it for a Champions game. Then when a PC decides to use Non Combat movement they have 1/2 DCV, 0 OCV

This.

 

If the PC was actually out of combat and the villain was ambushing them, I might use the speed-based DCV.

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This.

 

If the PC was actually out of combat and the villain was ambushing them, I might use the speed-based DCV.

I think this it's main use...scenario: Super dude, last surfer of klepton is fighting giant robots, he hears Lola, a scrappy reporter falling to her death. He needs to be cross town Now.

 

Luthor Lexton has set a ambush on the most direct route...so I need to know his dcv...and half base don't feel right, so...

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Velocity based DCV, when used, replaces a character's perception based personal DCV. It doesn't combine with their base DCV or get modified by anything else (like surprise or moving at non-combat speed). 

 

Note that that relative velocity is the value that should always be used to determine velocity based DCV.  If a pursuer can come close to matching the velocity they can reduce its impact.

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IF the megamover does not get to go first though they cannot abort to megascale movement as a defensive action.

Correct under Rules As Written. Tho...I might consider allowing an exception to let a speedster Abort to Megascale movement, since Running Fast is his whole shtick, if it were dramatically appropriate and I trusted the player not to abuse it. (I.e. - If he's rushing off to save a DNPC, that's one thing; if he just wants to get out of range so he can come running back in next Phase, not so much.) If I did, I would still give the attacker a chance for a parting shot, just to make things interesting. But that's me; my players know I will sometimes bend the rules if it makes for a better story, and trust I won't do it just to screw them.

 

Unless The Flash/Quicksilver is surprised he is not going to have a problem dealing with Green Arrow/Hawkeye.

And yet Flash routinely gets thumped by a guy throwing boomerangs...

 

Many moons ago in a Heroic game, we played with a House Rule that broke combat down by Half Phases. Sortof. It mostly only came into play when someone wanted to charge someone with a drawn weapon:

  • A and B both go on Phase 3; A has the higher DEX.
  • A wants to do a 1/2 Move and punch B.
  • B wants to shoot A.
  • So A does a 1/2 Move, then B shoots A, then A gets to punch B (if he's still able to).

It worked well with that campaign and that group of players, but it's not for everyone and can definitely slow down combat. Approach with caution.

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Ok so what is the point of a DCV thing for velocity if you could just get out of most peoples range before they can shoot at you ?

I mostly only use Velocity-based DCV when someone is shooting at a moving vehicle. Speedster characters tend to already have high DCVs based on the assumption that they're always moving really fast.

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Here are some Velocity Based DCV examples from my rookie version of The Flash (his base SPD = 6).  My rookie Superman is roughly about 2/3rds as fast (his base SPD = 4).

 

Speed Force Powers, (List) all slots Unified Power (-1/4)
25    21) Running at Super Speed part 1: Running (Base 12m) +18m (30m/70m total), Combat Acceleration/Deceleration (+1/4), Reduced Endurance (0 END; only affects +18m Running; +1/2) (31 Active Points) - END=
3    22) Running at Super Speed part 2: Combat Acceleration/Deceleration (Naked Advantage; +1/4) for up to 12 Active Points of Base 12m Running, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (4 Active Points) - END=0

5    23) Running up Walls: Clinging (normal STR) (10 Active Points); Linked (Running at Super Speed part 1; -1/2), Cannot Resist Knockback (-1/4) - END=0

 

120    Speed Force Powers: Variable Power Pool (Superspeed), 80 base + 60 control cost, No Skill Roll Required (+1), Powers Can Be Changed As A Zero-Phase Action (+1) (170 Active Points); Speed Force Powers Only (Real Cost Total Maximum=80 (typically 40 per slot) By taking enough additional Limitations (like Increased END or Concentration) 3 or more Slots of up to 60 active point can be used simultaneously.; -3/4), Conditional Power - Does not understand true nature of powers. Believes they are bound by traditional Laws of Physics (Can only fly by spinning arms, etc...). (-1/4); all slots Unified Power (-1/4)
[Notes: The list of abilites below allow 2 slots to be used simultaneously. However, these are only examples and not intended to be an exclusive list. Other ability constructions that fit within the "Speed Force Powers" special effect could be created and used without changing the overall cost of the Framework if approved by the GM.  He also does not need to start out with ALL of these options.]
0    4) Faster than a speeding bullet! v2: Running +40m (30m/70m total), Combat Acceleration/Deceleration (+1/4), Reduced Endurance (1/2 END; +1/4) (60 Active Points); Leaves A Trail (-1/4) Real Cost: 40

[Notes: 3 Total END/Phase with Base Running. Combat Velocity = 78.75mph. Velocity Based DCV = 7. Remove Combat Acceleration/Deceleration to increase to 78m total Running with 1/2 END @3 Total END/Phase (~ 88mph).  Remove 1/2 END to increase to 90m total Running (Maximum combat movement without Pushing) @7 Total END/Phase (~101mph. Velocity Based DCV = 9)] - END=2
0    5) Faster than a speeding bullet! v2.1: Running 30m, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), No Gravity Penalty (Great when combined with "Running up Walls" (Clinging); +1/2) (60 Active Points); Leaves A Trail (-1/4) Real Cost: 40

[Notes: Total 60m @1 Total END/Phase with Base Running. Combat Velocity = 67.5mph.] - END=
0    8) Orbital Speed Running: Flight 16m, No Turn Mode (+1/4), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), MegaScale (1m = 1 km; +1), Noncombat Acceleration/Deceleration (+1) (60 Active Points); Only In Contact With A Surface (This Limitation is primarily due to his Psychological Limitation: Fear of Flying. Flash believes that he can't properly fly without spining arms or something similar. Reduce active points down to 50 without this Limitation; -1/4) Real Cost: 40
[Notes: Top Speed (with current Advantages) = 18,000mph ( ~ Mach 24) or 8km/s (kilometers per second). Velocity Based DCV = 17.  Orbital speed at Sea Level = 7.90973km/s (This means that IF he were to lose contact with the surface while AT or ABOVE this speed he will NOT fall due to Gravity since he's travelling at ESCAPE VELOCITY!)] - END=0
0    9) Speed Force Running: Flight 10m, No Turn Mode (+1/4), Combat Acceleration/Deceleration (+1/4), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Noncombat Acceleration/Deceleration (+1), Usable Simultaneously (up to 2 people at once; +1), Grantor can take back power at any time, Recipient must be within Limited Range of the Grantor for power to be granted, MegaScale (1m = 10,000 km; +2) (60 Active Points); Only In Contact With A Surface (This Limitation is primarily due to his Psychological Limitation: Fear of Flying. Flash believes that he can't properly fly without spining arms or something similar. Reduce active points down to 50 without this Limitation; -1/4) Real Cost: 40

[Notes: Top Speed (with current Advantages) = 111,846,814 mph or 50,000km/s (kilometers per second) or ~ 1/6th the speed of light (approximately 300,000 km/s, or 186,000 miles per second). From (http://dcanimated.wikia.com/wiki/Divided_We_Fall) his globe circling attack versus Braniac/Luthor  1st Run: 10 seconds @4,000 km/second, 2nd Run: 9 seconds @4,444 km/s, 3rd Run: 11 seconds @3,636 km/s, 4th Run: 5 seconds @8,000 km/s and final 5th Run: 1 second @40,000 km/s] - END=0
 

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Regarding Acceleration and Megascale movement.

 

From 6e1 page 156
 

MegaAcceleration
Characters often apply the MegaScale Advantage to Movement Powers to create extremely fast movement abilities. Whether he moves at ordinary or Mega velocity, a character accelerates at the rate of 5m per meter until he reaches his full velocity. In the case of MegaMovement, the velocity and the size of the meters over which he accelerates are both affected by the MegaScaling. Thus, a character with Flight 10m, Megamovement (1m = 2 km) can accelerate by adding up to 10m (20 km) of movement per every 2 km “meter” — which means he can go from 0 to 10 km in one Phase, over the space of 2 km. He decelerates the same way.

 

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