Newby GM: some clarifications needed

[BoloOfEarth]

The simplest example of a Multipower I can think of, which shouldn't require a player aid, is Hawkeye's arrows.  Each type of arrow is an fixed slot taking up the entire Multipower pool.

 

For something more complex, I'd go with a mage casting spells.  The mage only has so much mana / magical power available (the Multipower pool), and has to split it among whichever spells (individual slots) he has running at any moment in time.

 

Sorry, I don't have an actual in-game example to provide.
 

[Hyper-Man]

The simplest example of a Multipower I can think of, which shouldn't require a player aid, is Hawkeye's arrows.  Each type of arrow is an fixed slot taking up the entire Multipower pool.

 

For something more complex, I'd go with a mage casting spells.  The mage only has so much mana / magical power available (the Multipower pool), and has to split it among whichever spells (individual slots) he has running at any moment in time.

 

Sorry, I don't have an actual in-game example to provide.

 

 

 

Here is a link to a rookie version of Green Arrow for 5e rules.  (Hawkeye is his biggest fan.)

 

HM

[steriaca]

Here is a link to a rookie version of Green Arrow for 5e rules. (Hawkeye is his biggest fan.)

 

HM

What? No boxing glove arrow on the sheet?

[BoloOfEarth]

Here's a combat example I've come up with on the fly.  To save typing: 

   [#]f (e.g. 50f) means a fixed slot of [#] active points

   [#]v (e.g. 60v) means a variable slot of [#] active points

 

Element-Mage has the following magic spell Multipower:

 

Multipower, 75 point pool, (whatever Limitations you have, e.g. Gestures, Incantations, Requires a Magic Roll)

1)  65v - Ray of Frost:  Blast up to 13d6

2)  50f - Coat of Ice:  Entangle 5d6

3)  75v - Cone of Cold:  Blast up to 6d6, NND (defense is LS: cold; +1), AoE (8m Cone; +1/2)

4)  75v - Wind-Running:  Flight up to 75m

5)  50v - Light-Step:  Teleportation up to 45m with Position Shift

6)  50f - Body of Air:  Desolidification, Half END (+1/4)

7)  45v - Ironskin:  Resistant Protection up to 15 rPD / 15 rED

8)  45v - Wind Hand:  Telekinesis up to 30 STR

9)  25f - Pure Air:  Invisibility to Sight Group, Half END (+1/4)

10)  25v - Light Displacement:  up to +5 DCV, costs END (-1/2)

11) 10f - Iron Will:  +10 PRE

 

EM also has an enchanted robe (Resistant Protection 8 rPD / 8 rED) so the Ironskin is mainly to add to that against dangerous foes.

 

ElementMage has heard that his arch-foe Terror-Axe is attacking the Natural History Museum, so EM rushes across town as fast as he can.  (all 75 pts. in Flight).

 

When he gets within range of the museum, he decides to slow down and raise some defenses (50 pts Flight 50m + 15 pts. Resistant Protection 5 rPD 5 rED + 10 pts. DCV ) in case he's attacked on approach.  (He doesn't use the Invisibility + Flight since the SFX of the flight will render the Invisibility less useful).

 

Luckily, ElementMage isn't attacked, so upon landing on the roof, he goes into full stealth mode (50 pts. Desolidification + 25 pts. Invisibility) and enters the museum.

 

A quick search of the building reveals Terror-Axe has hired six thugs to hold the museum patrons and staff hostage on the first floor.  Meanwhile, in a back prep room Terror-Axe has just located what he's been searching for:  The Orb of MacGuffin.  As the criminal prepares to leave the back room, EM decides to attack from surprise from across the room.  (Both EM and TA are SPD 4, and the thugs are SPD 2.)

 

Phase 11 (Surprise) - EM goes for 65 pts Blast 13d6 + 10 pts. PRE.  This doesn't CON-Stun TA, but it hurts him quite a bit.

 

Phase 12 - TA makes a half-move closer to EM and throws a small axe while screaming threats (Presence Attack).  The throwing axe does minimal damage to EM, and the extra PRE keeps the hero from quaking in his boots.  EM switches his Multipower to 50 pts. Blast 10d6 + 15 pts. Resistant Protection 5 rPD / 5 rED + 10 pts. PRE, and takes another shot at TA with the Blast, doing some damage.

 

Phase 3 - TA quick-draws his main axe, finishes closing on EM, and takes a swipe, drawing some blood.  EM isn't so keen on this so he sets his Multipower to 50 pts. Blast 10d6 + 15 pts. Resistant Protection 5 rPD / 5 rED + 10 pts. DCV (+2).  He can also hear the thugs in the other room and anticipates some of them will be joining their boss soon.  EM curses as his Blast misses TA.

 

Phase 6 - TA takes another slash at EM, but the extra DCV helps him avoid getting hit.  Hearing the thugs approaching him from behind, EM sets his Multipower to 50 pts NND 4d6 Cone + 15 pts. Teleportation 10m + 10 pts. DCV (+2) and Holds his action until the thugs arrive.  As soon as five thugs come running in (leaving one man to guard the civilians), EM teleports to the other side of TA and blasts the villain and his thugs with the NND.  This is enough to CON-Stun the thugs and anger Terror-Axe further.

 

Phase 9 - TA spins around and takes another swing at EM, connecting and doing pretty nasty damage.  A panicked EM sets his spells to 25 pts. NND 2d6 Cone + 30 pts. Resistant Protection 10 rPD / 10 rED + 20 pts. DCV (+4), backs up a few steps and blasts TA and the thugs again.

 

Phase 12 - a now-Enraged TA closes and takes another slash at EM, missing completely.  An emboldened EM gambles on finishing the bad guys off by going full-offense:  all 75 pts. as NND 6d6 Cone.  This takes down Terror-Axe as well as the 5 thugs.

 

Phase 3 - EM sets his spells to 50 pts. Entangle 5d6 + 25 pts. Invisibility (just in case), and ices up TA so he can't escape.

 

Phase 6 - EM keeps his spells as-is and moves stealthily to the doorway of the room where the nervous thug has the civilians Covered with his Uzi.

 

Phase 9 - EM sets his spells to 45 pts. TK 30 STR + 15 pts. Resistant Protection 5 rPD / 5 rED + 15 pts. Teleportation 10m, then teleports between the thug and the civilians.  This ruins the thug's held Covered maneuver but he pulls the trigger anyway (hitting ElementMage and hurting him slightly).  EM responds by using his TK to rip the Uzi from the thug's hands and pointing it at the thug (who doesn't realize that without Fine Manipulation on his TK, EM can't fire the gun).  The thug surrenders, ending the battle.

[Hyper-Man]

What? No boxing glove arrow on the sheet?

 

 

See the following:

http://www.herogames.com/forums/topic/64115-the-classic-justice-league-starting-members-on-350-points/page-11?do=findComment&comment=2234621

http://www.herogames.com/forums/topic/64115-the-classic-justice-league-starting-members-on-350-points/page-10?do=findComment&comment=2058706

http://www.herogames.com/forums/topic/64115-the-classic-justice-league-starting-members-on-350-points/page-10?do=findComment&comment=2057219

 

HM

[iena]

^Guys,

 

^{I'm not sure if it's fair to up a topic only to thank but... Thanks a lot because your support is invaluable. Tomorrow the first Champions session will be held... And i'm quite optimistic...thanks to you.}

 

^{Anyway for sure I will need for help again in future... The most of questions will be raised during the session... I will take note...}

 

 

^Regards.

[iena]

Hi everybody,

After the first Champions game session, some questions have been raised by a friend that is using a "speedster" hero.

he bought a classic Speedster power (from "Powers" handbook):

Over-Drive Running:  Running +8m (12m/20m total), MegaScale (1m = 1 km; +1) (28 Active Points)

Now, you have to consider that this player is as newbie as me with the hero system... He bought the power because he wish take some advantage in combat but, as far as I have understood, the rules don't specify anything about this... Consider a character like Kinetic taken from the Champions: Complete handbook. At normal combat speed he runs at 50MPH... Ok, and then? Is his DCV influenced by this? Has he some bonus to the OCV?... Otherwise such power would have a very limited effectiveness, isn't it?

Look, I don't want put in discussion some aspect related to the rules design... just have a better undestanding in order to build more effective characters...

Regards.

[Hugh Neilson]

A hallmark of Hero is that abilities are purchased in discrete elements. The power pays for two things:

 

- +8 meters of Running, so his movement in combat is now 20m instead of 12m. Cost: 8 points.

 

- Megascale on all 20 meters of running, so he can run at 20 km per phase instead of 20 meters per phase, in noncombat mode.

 

He didn`t buy OCV or DCV, so the power does not enhance his OCV or DCV. His CV can be influenced by velocity (typically replacing normal DCV).` His extra movement speed can enhance either a Move By or Move Through maneuver (20 meters, not 20 km).

 

It`s tough to comment on the character as a whole without seeing the character as a whole. Presumably, he has an array of other Speedster powers.

[Ninja-Bear]

Also he increased his half move and still attack in combat. Also move by and move through has damaged based velocity. However as Hugh pointed out, in Hero you get stuff for what you pay for. So for your speedster say you think that it is reasonable to have a higher DCV, you buy it and declare that it is because he moves so fast. Another classic is buying autofire for hand attsck so you can multiple punch in a phase. What I would do is have a tablet handy so when you or your friend thinks of something the speedster should have, write it down. As a GM you could allow him to have it as experience or let him redesign the character later. Unfortunately there is a little learning curve to the way characters are built. It does get easier though.

[Tasha]

For beginners I would HIGHLY recommend keeping the writeups as simple and straight forward as possible.

I would never give a new player a Multipower with Variable slots in it. It's more math than most new players want to deal with. I do recommend Fixed slots. I just explain that you can use one of the powers in the multipower at a time (I tend to write multipowers for newbies with a pool only big enough to handle one power at a time).

Megascale: Since MegaMovement scaled above 1m = 1m requires a Full Phase Action, a character may not perform Move Throughs, Move Bys, Grab Bys, Strafes, or Dives For Cover using it without the GM’s permission. Even with such permission, it would be very difficult for the character to succeed with an Attack Roll — he’s at OCV 0 and ½ DCV because he’s considered to be using Noncombat Movement (at the GM’s option, he may have Velocity-Based DCV; see 6E2 24). In the case of Move Bys/Throughs, the damage he’d suffer from the Maneuver would almost certainly obliterate him.

[bigdamnhero]

Right, buying up Running is a good start for a speedster, but it's only a first step. Then you think about all the "because he runs fast, then ___" abilities and start buying them. Remember reason from effect: if you want him to be hard to hit then you buy up his DCV, and "because he runs really fast" is just the special effect. It may seem counterintuitive, but buying each effect separately is how Hero keeps things balanced.

[Tasha]

Right, buying up Running is a good start for a speedster, but it's only a first step. Then you think about all the "because he runs fast, then ___" abilities and start buying them. Remember reason from effect: if you want him to be hard to hit then you buy up his DCV, and "because he runs really fast" is just the special effect. It may seem counterintuitive, but buying each effect separately is how Hero keeps things balanced.

 

Start with the power concept and then ask yourself what abilities come from having that power concept. Write those abilities down in plain english(or what ever language is easiest). Then look at each of those abilities and build a power in hero for each power on the list.

[Lucius]

Hi everybody,

After the first Champions game session, some questions have been raised by a friend that is using a "speedster" hero.

he bought a classic Speedster power (from "Powers" handbook):

Over-Drive Running: Running +8m (12m/20m total), MegaScale (1m = 1 km; +1) (28 Active Points)

Now, you have to consider that this player is as newbie as me with the hero system... He bought the power because he wish take some advantage in combat but, as far as I have understood, the rules don't specify anything about this... Consider a character like Kinetic taken from the Champions: Complete handbook. At normal combat speed he runs at 50MPH... Ok, and then? Is his DCV influenced by this? Has he some bonus to the OCV?... Otherwise such power would have a very limited effectiveness, isn't it?

Look, I don't want put in discussion some aspect related to the rules design... just have a better undestanding in order to build more effective characters...

Regards.

This is not such a good power to use in combat. It's a good power to get TO a combat if the combat is far away. It is good to get AWAY from a combat.

 

There is an optional rule to use velocity based DCV but to get that DCV you must be moving that velocity, which means you're not participating in the combat, you're a blur flashing across the battlefield while combat is going on.

 

The single most useful thing for a speedster is probably SPD. Buying up Running won't get more actions in combat, but buying up SPD both gets more actions in a Turn and lets you move faster (because you are moving more often.) A problem with excessive SPD is that as the character with lots of it takes action after action while everyone else sits and waits, this can lead to others feeling left out or bored or to the high SPD person feeling the pressure to act and the spotlight is on them all the time with no time to think about what to do next.

 

If you would like suggestions for more combat useful speedster abilities:

 

A more modest amount of Running with the Trigger Advantage. This allows movement after an attack, so you can run out, attack, then get back under cover. Watch out for people who were set and waiting for you to run out, though.

 

OCV with the Limitation that it Costs END: "Moving too fast to react to"

 

DCV with the Limitation that it costs END: "Moving too fast to target"

 

Damage Negation, or other defenses, only vs your own velocity damage. This could let you do a Move Through and wipe someone else out without being wiped out yourself.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Palindromedary with Defense Maneuver

[iena]

Dears,

I would have a couple of easy questions for you about initiative/priority during the combat and about multifire.

1) Consider the Villain Black Mamba (dex 20) and the hero Capitan Hope (dex 18): in a certain phase (where both the characters can take their action) Black Mamba declares that he wants to hit with a strike captain Hope. He spends his 1/2 phase and tries to hit the enemy... Ok at this point, can Captain Hope declares that he wants to block and to try to do so even if he should have his action AFTER black mamba? In case Captain Hope could block with a 1/2 phase action... do this action is considered as "spent" or it doesn't count as "spent action"?... I hope I'm clear...

2) If I want to use a multi attack with a punch for example, how it works? In my understanding, I should declare before how many Attacks I want to do, then calculate a cumulative -2 OCV for every attack after the first and then try to hit but applying the cumulative malus to all the Attacks... or the malus increases attack after attack?

 

 

Thanks for your support.

[BoloOfEarth]

For (1) Captain Hope can attempt to Block the attack even though his DEX is lower than Black Mamba's  - but Captain Hope has to Abort his upcoming action that Phase, unless he was Holding his action.  Even though Block is a 1/2 Phase action, this will be his entire action that Phase.  However, if he is successful with his Block, he moves before Black Mamba on the next Phase.

 

As to (2) I'm not sure, as I don't have the book in front of me.

[Scott Baker]

#2 This is clearly stated on page 151 in Champions Complete (not sure which rule book you are using). The penalty applies to all of the attack rolls.

[BoloOfEarth]

#2 This is clearly stated on page 151 in Champions Complete (not sure which rule book you are using). The penalty applies to all of the attack rolls.

Thanks.  That's what I thought, but wasn't positive. 

[iena]

Hi Everybody,

 

I would like to submit to your approval a little framework of powers I have built.

The intention was to create a small pool of powers to support a Ninja hero in his job (assassination, mainly :-)).

 

The framework is inspired to the power coming from Shadow/Darkness and, just for your info, the final character would like to simulate the leading character of the movie "Ninja Assassin" directed by the Wachowski brothers.

 

Shadow's Powers framework (20 points reserve):

 

2f Step Through the shadow: teleportation 20m (usable only in shadows/darkness -1/4)

2f Shadow sphere: darkness 3m radius, afflicts the sight group (personal immunity +1/4)

2f Shadow blanket: invisibility to singht Group (usable only in darkness/shadow -1/4)

 

Is it acceptable from the rules point of view or is there something wrong?

 

Keep in mind that this Ninja character is not centered on "superpowers" as normally they are defined... Basically he is so trained that his ability (in hiding, for example) seems to be almost supernatural... 

 

 

Regards and thanks for your feedback.

[massey]

It looks right to me.  I have mostly played 4th and 5th edition Hero.  My knowledge of 6th is not as complete as it is with older editions.  But nothing jumps out at me as being incorrect.

[Ninja-Bear]

Hey my first Champions character was a ninja named Shadow! Though mine was more mundane in comparision.

[bigdamnhero]

Shadow's Powers framework (20 points reserve):

 

2f Step Through the shadow: teleportation 20m (usable only in shadows/darkness -1/4)

2f Shadow sphere: darkness 3m radius, afflicts the sight group (personal immunity +1/4)

2f Shadow blanket: invisibility to singht Group (usable only in darkness/shadow -1/4)

Looks good to me. I assume this is in an MP, rather than a VPP? Note that means he won't normally be able to use two powers at once, ie he's visible while teleporting. Also note the Darkness sphere doesn't move with him unless you've added the Mobile Advantage. But otherwise solid.

[Lucius]

Hi Everybody,

 

I would like to submit to your approval a little framework of powers I have built.

The intention was to create a small pool of powers to support a Ninja hero in his job (assassination, mainly :-)).

 

The framework is inspired to the power coming from Shadow/Darkness and, just for your info, the final character would like to simulate the leading character of the movie "Ninja Assassin" directed by the Wachowski brothers.

 

Shadow's Powers framework (20 points reserve):

 

2f Step Through the shadow: teleportation 20m (usable only in shadows/darkness -1/4)

2f Shadow sphere: darkness 3m radius, afflicts the sight group (personal immunity +1/4)

2f Shadow blanket: invisibility to singht Group (usable only in darkness/shadow -1/4)

 

Is it acceptable from the rules point of view or is there something wrong?

 

Keep in mind that this Ninja character is not centered on "superpowers" as normally they are defined... Basically he is so trained that his ability (in hiding, for example) seems to be almost supernatural... 

 

 

Regards and thanks for your feedback.

If that's a Multipower, I don't see anything that jumps out as wrong about the mechanical build. As has already been pointed out, it means that the ninja can't be invisible and teleport at the same time.

 

I do have a question about the "special effects."

 

I understand Invisibility as "super-stealth."

 

I get that the Teleport is really the sort of trick that has a witness asking "How did that devil get THERE?" (real (in universe) answer: an acrobatic leap, or superior climbing, or moving swiftly and silently when no one was looking.)

 

But I don't understand what the Darkness Power is supposed to be simulating. Smoke pellets? what?

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary and I are in the dark about the meaning of that Power

[iena]

Hi everybody,

discussing with my party I've had the opportunity to capture their feeling about the system, the rules and so on... One problem all the players found is related to the down-time during the combat when a character has a value of speed of 5 or less.. Well, I would like to know: do somebody of you has already done an experiment by cutting out the SPD characteristic? my idea is trying to manage the combat allowing everyone (Champions and villains) to do their action at every round by following the DEX value... I mean, cutting the SPD value for everyone during the character/Villain generation, more or less the balancing should be guaranteed? What do you think about?

[Scott Baker]

Hi everybody,

discussing with my party I've had the opportunity to capture their feeling about the system, the rules and so on... One problem all the players found is related to the down-time during the combat when a character has a value of speed of 5 or less.. Well, I would like to know: do somebody of you has already done an experiment by cutting out the SPD characteristic? my idea is trying to manage the combat allowing everyone (Champions and villains) to do their action at every round by following the DEX value... I mean, cutting the SPD value for everyone during the character/Villain generation, more or less the balancing should be guaranteed? What do you think about?

It sounds like, for a new/learning game, there's too big of a spread between the slowest character and the fastest character. It really doesn't have anything to do with being SPD 5 or less, just that at least one character is going significantly faster than SPD 5. This would be made more evident by players (especially those playing faster characters) taking a long time to decide what to do, or trying to figure out the rules.

 

My recommendation would be to keep characters within 2 SPD of each other (to start with). Say SPD 4-6. That way everyone is relatively even as they learn the system. It also puts makes them faster than most agents/thugs so they really can feel "super" when fighting them.

 

While you could eliminate SPD as you noted, it's (obviously) not an option I would choose. One of the things that has always differentiated Hero from other systems for me was the ability to have characters acting at different speeds. 

[Ninja-Bear]

Im pretty much in agreement with Scott Baker except I would keep it within 1 speed with Heroes and villians to start. Any agents could be slower. In fact keep all heroes speed 5 is ok unless one is really fast then speed 6. Once you and your friends get the hang of it, then experiment with a bigger speed gap. Also limit the maneuvers to the basic maneuvers for a while. Less options mean a quicker response time. If there is a maneuver that is important to the character, say move by for the speedster, then jot down notes for yourself and player to learn.