Newby GM: some clarifications needed

[DasBroot]

We have a gentleperson's agreement among my gaming group that nobody exceeds speed 6.  It's predictable but it works.  Minions or super hard hitting godzilla monsters have a 3, agent types have a 4, and superhero/villains have a 6.  The rare, rare super-villain will have higher but it's for aborting to defend or taking recovery actions - both to simulate a 'super tough' enemy (the team has learned to have someone hold an action to attack a certain type of recurring enemy - a type of regenerating blob - that uses off-standard phases for recovery actions).

 

While pretty much everyone spends 40 points to get to that speed 6 (so handy) there are a few that have bought it with a limitation that they can only use their multipower attacks with that 4 extra speed (so the mentalist can mind blast with the best of them but doesn't magically become a super fast world class sprinter or typist - they can only take physical actions on 6 and 12).

 

Large spreads between people who didn't understand what speed was for can definitely lead to bored players.  

[Christopher R Taylor]

Speed is a bit of a slower until you learn how it works and players get better with the system.  Every game has the equivalent, whether its initiative or drawing cards in Savage Worlds or whatever.  You wait your turn.  The only thing that makes this wait bad is if people don't know what their options are or what they are doing - compounded by people inevitably and inexplicably not taking the down time to plan their next move.

[bigdamnhero]

I've played & run games without Speed (essentially giving everyone a SPD 3). It works fine mechanically, and some people definitely prefer having everyone get the same number of Phases. I prefer using SPD personally, but I agree about keeping characters down to a 2-point spread. So I'd suggest trying that out first, and if you all collectively still don't like it, then yes, removing/ignoring Speed doesn't break anything else in the rules.

[Scott Baker]

I've played & run games without Speed (essentially giving everyone a SPD 3). It works fine mechanically, and some people definitely prefer having everyone get the same number of Phases. I prefer using SPD personally, but I agree about keeping characters down to a 2-point spread. So I'd suggest trying that out first, and if you all collectively still don't like it, then yes, removing/ignoring Speed doesn't break anything else in the rules.

To add on to what bigdamnhero said, while removing SPD doesn't break things, you do have to make a decision (i.e., pick a "SPD" that everyone has) to determine when they get Post-Segment 12 recoveries.

[DasBroot]

To add on to what bigdamnhero said, while removing SPD doesn't break things, you do have to make a decision (i.e., pick a "SPD" that everyone has) to determine when they get Post-Segment 12 recoveries.

 

And the lower you set that 'speed' the more powerful recovery becomes, as the characters have both expended less endurance and (probably) been subjected to less attacks which could cause stun to them.  IE: In a 6 speed game a character using a 60 point power six times will expend 36 end - and if he's subjected to (say for simplicities sake) 6 attacks from a similar speed villain that net 6 stun to him he's taken 30 stun.  A post segment 12 recovery of 20 will recover nearly half his lost end and 2/3 of the stun done to him - he's challenged but ready to press on.

 

The same criteria in a speed locked 2 game, for example, will net a 0 endurance loss and 0 stun loss. He can fight forever and is functionally immortal against that opponent (in my group we call this 'beach balls with a grudge' and we've seen it happen with 12 DC / 60 AP bricks slamming into each other).  Even if swarms become common to deal with the stun aspect of things the endurance recovery will be quite handy - and a cunning player looking to save some points could slap the double or even triple END limitation on everything he does and save a ton of points.

[iena]

 

Dear all,

yesterday, in Agreement with my players, we applied the following house rules to semplify and speed-up the game during the combat:

1) We have assumed an identical SPD for everyone (Players/Villains/etc). Anyway, as the SPD is the more expensive characteristic in terms of CP, we have assumed that the total amount of CP to build the character was 370 and not 400. Basically we decided that everybody has SPD 5 and has to put 30 CP by default in this characteristic... This should balance a bit the characters building.

2) All (player, enemies,) take their actions at every round following the DEX value order.

3) As everyone takes is actions every round, we fixed 1 free recovery after 6 rounds

We played 2 different combat situations and... basically it works... maybe we still haven't explored every combat details/situations but for the moment we didn't have any major issues... and most importat we had a lot fun!!!!

For the moment the only house rule still under monitoring and approval is the one related to the free recovery every six rounds... I still have to understand if it's too much or is ok.... I think we need a very long combat to verify this point.

Anyway, thanks for your suggestions.

[DasBroot]

Dear all,

yesterday, in Agreement with my players, we applied the following house rules to semplify and speed-up the game during the combat:

1) We have assumed an identical SPD for everyone (Players/Villains/etc). Anyway, as the SPD is the more expensive characteristic in terms of CP, we have assumed that the total amount of CP to build the character was 370 and not 400. Basically we decided that everybody has SPD 5 and has to put 30 CP by default in this characteristic... This should balance a bit the characters building.

2) All (player, enemies,) take their actions at every round following the DEX value order.

3) As everyone takes is actions every round, we fixed 1 free recovery after 6 rounds

We played 2 different combat situations and... basically it works... maybe we still haven't explored every combat details/situations but for the moment we didn't have any major issues... and most importat we had a lot fun!!!!

For the moment the only house rule still under monitoring and approval is the one related to the free recovery every six rounds... I still have to understand if it's too much or is ok.... I think we need a very long combat to verify this point.

Anyway, thanks for your suggestions.

 

Recovery every 6 will be fine.  It's like cramming the 5 actions that would normally be spread out over 12 phases into 6.  Technically it should be recovery at the end of every round 5 to match up exactly, but 6 works well if '6' is *just* a recovery/reset phase and then you start again at 1 (though a 'hidden phase' gets a little funny potentially when dealing with breakout rolls or flash durations).  Either way it's 5 actions and a recovery per 'turn'. 

 

I like it and may steal it for my next 'street level' game (though I'd personally set the hidden speed at 6 and not reduce creation points for the players if it can't be modified up or down at all).

 

Held actions, I would assume, will have to be used at the end of the round they're held in or lost since essentially everyone is acting on the next segment.

[iena]

DasBroot,

I confirm for the "Held actions". I would have a question, or better need for a confirmation, for the "block" (normal or martial). If I have DEX 18 and My enemy 20, I can try to block the attack of the enemy, my round finishes immediately BUT next round I will act BEFORE the enemy regardless the DEX value.... quite normal like we are using the SPD chart...

 

 

[BoloOfEarth]

Dear all,

yesterday, in Agreement with my players, we applied the following house rules to semplify and speed-up the game during the combat:

1) We have assumed an identical SPD for everyone (Players/Villains/etc). Anyway, as the SPD is the more expensive characteristic in terms of CP, we have assumed that the total amount of CP to build the character was 370 and not 400. Basically we decided that everybody has SPD 5 and has to put 30 CP by default in this characteristic... This should balance a bit the characters building.

2) All (player, enemies,) take their actions at every round following the DEX value order.

3) As everyone takes is actions every round, we fixed 1 free recovery after 6 rounds

We played 2 different combat situations and... basically it works... maybe we still haven't explored every combat details/situations but for the moment we didn't have any major issues... and most importat we had a lot fun!!!!

For the moment the only house rule still under monitoring and approval is the one related to the free recovery every six rounds... I still have to understand if it's too much or is ok.... I think we need a very long combat to verify this point.

Anyway, thanks for your suggestions.

 

I'm a bit confused.  At first you say everybody has SPD 5 (so moving on Segments 3, 5, 8, 10, and 12) but then based on (2) and (3) it sounds like everybody is moving every Segment (so moving on Segments 1-6, then a post-6 recovery, then moving on Segments 7-12, then a post-12 recovery).

 

If all moving at SPD 5, no problem. 

 

If the latter, be aware that this could for all practical purposes about double the effectiveness of:

• any powers with Continuing Charges of 1 Turn duration or
• Drains that return (or Aids that fade) at the end of the Turn, or
• Flashes

[bigdamnhero]

3) As everyone takes is actions every round, we fixed 1 free recovery after 6 rounds

If everyone is SPD 5, shouldn't that be after 5 rounds? Or are you counting it as a 6th round where everyone recovers?

 

Typically we I play without SPD we fix everyone at SPD 4, as we feel that keeps the best balance. But 5 should work fine.

 

I'm a bit confused.  At first you say everybody has SPD 5 (so moving on Segments 3, 5, 8, 10, and 12) but then based on (2) and (3) it sounds like everybody is moving every Segment (so moving on Segments 1-6, then a post-6 recovery, then moving on Segments 7-12, then a post-12 recovery).

I took "every round" to mean everyone acts every Phase, not every Segment. And since nothing happens on the other 7 Segments, you can ignore them and just have 5x 2-second rounds or Phases or whatever.

[iena]

Guys, I'm very sorry but sometime my poor English makes hard what should be really easy. The house rule I apply could be summarized:

The spd characteristic is completely cut off.

Spd is a very expensive characteristic (10 cp/1 point) so using 400 cp to generate the champion is not balanced.

An average (in my humble opinion) of 30 cp are usually spent for spd... In a standard hero build (and this would bring up spd to 5!!).

So let use 370 cp to create the hero. They should enough to buy the standard sets of skills/perks/talents/powers.

The consequences of not using spd is that all take their actions in every round following the dex value order.

Every 6 round all can take a free recovery.

 

I hope it's clearer now.

[Lucius]

While pretty much everyone spends 40 points to get to that speed 6 (so handy) there are a few that have bought it with a limitation that they can only use their multipower attacks with that 4 extra speed (so the mentalist can mind blast with the best of them but doesn't magically become a super fast world class sprinter or typist - they can only take physical actions on 6 and 12).

My solution to that is to buy Running down as SPD is bought up.

 

So if you want a character who has SPD 6 but only runs as fast as a normal, buy Running down to 4 meters. Your net ground speed is now the same as a "normal" person.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary observes a sign of the times: SPEED LIMIT: 12

[bigdamnhero]

Guys, I'm very sorry but sometime my poor English makes hard what should be really easy.

Don't sweat it; your English is way better than my Not-English.

[DasBroot]

My solution to that is to buy Running down as SPD is bought up.

 

So if you want a character who has SPD 6 but only runs as fast as a normal, buy Running down to 4 meters. Your net ground speed is now the same as a "normal" person.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary observes a sign of the times: SPEED LIMIT: 12

 

Interesting approach but doesn't that actually make the character slower outside of 'combat'?  I can't recall the page but Champions Complete specifically states that a character can be assumed to be speed 2 unless otherwise noted.  Sure there's nothing wrong with saying "I'm speed 6 all the time" but technically doesn't that increase the end cost of constant powers, which cost per phase they're active (not that I've ever understood why invisibility is more endurance intensive to use in a fight than on a scouting mission  - or have I been misunderstanding how to charge END for constant powers? Everyone and their grandma buys 'only costs end to activate' in my games so it doesn't come up - partly for that reason.)