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DC Movies- if at first you don't succeed...


Cassandra

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Not sure how a horror movie involving thousands of CGI characters from a totally CGI environment would be 'cheap to produce'.  Heck, the cost of Alien Covenant was like $100 mil.

 

Anyway, as Bazza illustrated, I was referring to the ideas/direction of the WB execs in picking this movie.  IMO they're obviously backsliding in a major way.

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8 hours ago, Starlord said:

Not sure how a horror movie involving thousands of CGI characters from a totally CGI environment would be 'cheap to produce'.

 

Mostly because animators, lighters, and compositors (especially those that work in India and China) are much cheaper than live-action film crews, actors, stuntmen and extras. Plus, greenscreen shooting is much cheaper than location shooting, and even cheaper than soundstage shooting with physical sets. And a lot will be saved by not needing any A-list actors (or what passes for A-list in the DCEU).

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Most of the time, you don't actually SEE the bad guy in horror films.  Alien is almost over by the time you get a real, full-body shot of the xenomorph.  That's partly due to budget, and partly due to the fact that its more effective and scary to not quite understand what you're up against.

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1 hour ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

Most of the time, you don't actually SEE the bad guy in horror films.  Alien is almost over by the time you get a real, full-body shot of the xenomorph.  That's partly due to budget, and partly due to the fact that its more effective and scary to not quite understand what you're up against.

 

And partly because the suit the actor playing the Alien wore didn't stand up to prolonged inspection in good light.

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  • 4 weeks later...
On 2/10/2019 at 11:09 PM, assault said:

And we'll (mostly) pretend it doesn't exist.

 

I've heard rumours that a movie about Venom exists. I don't believe it myself.

Actually I am 90% certain I watched that Venom movie. Twice even.

 

On 2/11/2019 at 6:36 AM, Iuz the Evil said:

The 3rd season of Young Justice is really fun. Like the Death of Superman/Reign of the Supermen as well.

  

The DCAU > DCEU. Some things remain true. 

I long ago formulated a Theory:
"Marvel is better in Movies.

DC is better in Series."

 

On 2/11/2019 at 11:30 PM, Christopher R Taylor said:

Most of the time, you don't actually SEE the bad guy in horror films.  Alien is almost over by the time you get a real, full-body shot of the xenomorph.  That's partly due to budget, and partly due to the fact that its more effective and scary to not quite understand what you're up against.

That is actually a very important part. If you look "Star Trek Voyager: Scropion Part 1", you can notice that they do not show the Antagonist before Minute 30.

This Episode was intentionally made to simualte a Horror Movie. That is why it worked so well.

 

47 minutes ago, Hermit said:

 

So the Bad Guy is Black Adam after all?
By this time, it is a classical Introduction to the Character. Ever since this DC Showcase:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superman/Shazam!:_The_Return_of_Black_Adam

Justice League Action also followed those Footsteps.

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3 hours ago, Scott Ruggels said:

I'd see this one.

 

I'm afraid to see Shazam.

 

Batman movies were successful by being dark, grim, and gritty. Then DC's movie branch decided that the reason people liked superhero movies was that they were "dark, grim, and gritty" and made every scene in every DC superhero movie "dark, grim, and gritty" whether it should have been or not. They mostly came out of that poisonous thinking with Wonder Woman but that thinking definitely tainted every Batman movie, Batman vs Superman and Suicide Squad.

 

Now they're giving us a Shazam with a superhero who acts like a juvenile and where scenes are played for laughs. I don't want DC's movie branch to decide that the reason people like superhero movies is that "superheroes act like juveniles and that every scene should be played for laughs". I don't trust that their next "blockbuster" movie and the next few movies after that might revert back to the campy 1960's Batman TV styling if Shazam turns out to be a hit.

 

DC seems to think that there's a secret style formula for successful superhero movies and once they identify that style that they'll be able to crank out movies matching that formula. But if you look at Marvel movies, they do a tortured monster movie, a narcissist inventor movie, a classic ensemble superteam movie, a political thriller, an outer space sci--fi movie, etc. There's no set "formula" for Marvel, just enough good movies being being written to carry the few movies which aren't so well-written.

 

DC is flailing around and I'm afraid that a successful Shazam movie might prolong the flailing rather than end it. I can tolerate every movie being inappropriately dark, grim, and gritty better than I can tolerate every movie having heroes who act like juveniles and every scene played for laughs.

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Well, Billy IS a Juvenile.

 I mean, we're putting the move in a kind of damned if it does damned if it doesn't situation there... if he's too mature it's not going to fit the character concept.. Wisdom of Solomon aside.

Hopefully we'll see some character development in the movie itself.

I am optimistic on this one.

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I think archer's point isn't about Shazam! specifically, but the effect its potential box office success could have on the thinking that will prevail among WB/DC studio execs and producers as they move forward with future DCEU movies.

 

Marvel established a winning framework (formula?) for MCU movies during Phase 1, and then allowed later films to establish their own creative identity using the wiggle room Kevin Feige permitted within that framework. DC never established a winning framework because they didn't have the patience to do so. The closest they got was pushing the "dark, grim, and gritty" aesthetic into all DCEU movies, but that's a very shallow approximation of a shared universe framework.

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5 hours ago, archer said:

 

I'm afraid to see Shazam.

[Edit]

DC seems to think that there's a secret style formula for successful superhero movies and once they identify that style that they'll be able to crank out movies matching that formula. But if you look at Marvel movies, they do a tortured monster movie, a narcissist inventor movie, a classic ensemble superteam movie, a political thriller, an outer space sci--fi movie, etc. There's no set "formula" for Marvel, just enough good movies being being written to carry the few movies which aren't so well-written.

 

DC is flailing around and I'm afraid that a successful Shazam movie might prolong the flailing rather than end it. I can tolerate every movie being inappropriately dark, grim, and gritty better than I can tolerate every movie having heroes who act like juveniles and every scene played for laughs.

 That's a fair assessment of "generically" things might get done at Warners, but  I am seeing a tone change away from Zack Snyder's leadership of the DCCU, and an attempt as a more "Marvel-like" tone. Aquaman (which I did not see), was apparently satifying to a relatively large audience. This seems like it's more the same. However DC's Captain Marvel in print was always a more "light hearted" comic, and that would be true to the source. As to what it's success  might bode for the rest of the DCCU, only time will tell, but honestly I see the DCCU fading out in only a few years, long before phase 4 finishees over at Marvel.  I also expect a couple of independent directors or studios to make a successful superhero film in the style of Marvel, but not marvel, because frankly, the Marvel formula isn't rocket science.

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11 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

I don't see DC as "flailing" at this point. I believe they're trying to do just what we've been applauding Marvel for -- find the style and tone which fits each distinct character.

 

Back in an old Soapbox, Stan Lee commented that, when Marvel does something that does not sell, they are "letting down the fans", and when they do something that does sell, they are "just doing it for the bucks".

 

Criticizing WB for not getting what makes the Marvel films work, then criticizing them for "copying Marvel" when they make films that are closer to what makes Marvel films work, seems similarly "damned if you do, damned if you don't".

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4 hours ago, Hugh Neilson said:

Criticizing WB for not getting what makes the Marvel films work, then criticizing them for "copying Marvel" when they make films that are closer to what makes Marvel films work, seems similarly "damned if you do, damned if you don't".

 

I don't see Aquaman or Shazam! as matching "what makes Marvel films work," aside from maybe being decent movies with good stories that aren't ugly to look at. A huge part of the success of MCU movies is that they fit into a larger dramatic tapestry, and each of these movies--while standing on their own narratively--are designed to also work as pieces of an over-arching epic tale being told. WB isn't really doing that with their recent movies, having abandoned their effort to construct a shared universe with its own stylistic identity.

 

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