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Cassandra

DC Movies- if at first you don't succeed...

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OK this panel includes details on what Zach Snyder wanted to do with Justice League and... well, let's just say he saw the previous films he'd done and thought "wow, those are too upbeat"

 

 

See, Darkseid kills Lois Lane

Superman goes berserk and evil

Darkseid takes over the world

The heroes have to go back in time to alter history to prevent that from happening

 

This is the kind of story you do ten years down the road once you have an audience and built the universe up, it not what you smash fans in the face with two movies in, particularly having already really annoyed them.

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Snyder gave a recent Q&A (warning, Snyder uses bad words in his monologue) in which he doubles down on the dark tone of his films:

 

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It’s a cool point of view to be like ‘my heroes are still innocent. My heroes didn’t ------- lie to America. My heroes didn’t embezzle money from their corporations. My heroes didn’t commit any atrocities.’ That’s cool. But you’re living in a ------- dream world.

 

I didn't even quote the worst parts.  I used to think Snyder just didn't get the source material.  I was wrong.  He actively dislikes the source material and is screwing it up on purpose.  This dudebro needs to be forcibly removed from anything and everything having to do with comics, film, or public exposure. 

 

 

edit: Missed some profanity the first time around.

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He actively dislikes the source material and is screwing it up on purpose.

 

Yeah I've read something like that before from him.  He has his own version of morality where some things are evil and anything else is just living life and anyone who disagrees is either with the enemy or a childish dolt.  Absolutely the wrong sort of person to be handling DC's hopeful romantic stories.

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Dear Zac Snyder, 

 

It's supposed to be a dream world, dumba$$.  I go there to get away from crappy and/or boring reality for 2 hours a week!

 

Sincerely 

 

Your average comic book fan.  

 

P.S.  EXCELSIOR!

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I've never seen the point of putting people in charge who hate the source material, don't know the source material, or are apathetic toward the source material.

 

And it doesn't matter if you are talking Snyder's DC movies, JJ Abrams Star Trek, or JJ Abrams Star Wars.

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4 hours ago, archer said:

I've never seen the point of putting people in charge who hate the source material, don't know the source material, or are apathetic toward the source material.

 

And it doesn't matter if you are talking Snyder's DC movies, JJ Abrams Star Trek, or JJ Abrams Star Wars.

Me too. This is strange :(

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I think the worry about WB learning the wrong lessons for successful movies is a valid concern. That's what you see when you look at their history. 

 

Anyway, fingers crossed that Shazam is good and WB learn to trust the material. 

 

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On 3/8/2019 at 4:18 PM, Christopher R Taylor said:

Aquaman didn't really interest me but I have read it was pretty entertaining if dumb (kinda like Guardians of the Galaxy).  Really I don't want Dostoevsky when I go see a Superhero film, just to have fun and come out happy.

Comparing it to Guardians, I found the story at least 20% more complex and layered. I mean how many Stories have the Hero solve a riddle via knowledge?

 

I guess there are some elements that are similar (with Atlanteans being uninformed about Surface Culture), but that is just normal "Fish out of Water" storytelling (pun totally intended).

 

15 hours ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

OK this panel includes details on what Zach Snyder wanted to do with Justice League and... well, let's just say he saw the previous films he'd done and thought "wow, those are too upbeat"

 

 

See, Darkseid kills Lois Lane

Superman goes berserk and evil

Darkseid takes over the world 

The heroes have to go back in time to alter history to prevent that from happening

 

This is the kind of story you do ten years down the road once you have an audience and built the universe up, it not what you smash fans in the face with two movies in, particularly having already really annoyed them.

So a Nod to the Storyline of Injustice or the Justice Lords, just using Timetravel rather then alternate Dimension Travel to fix it?

Those were some pretty good storylines. Also a bit dark, but that just goes with the Thematic.

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And it doesn't matter if you are talking Snyder's DC movies, JJ Abrams Star Trek, or JJ Abrams Star Wars.

 

Supposedly Abrams didn't like Star Trek, but was doing it as a demo to get the job of Star Wars, which he loves.  But while Abrams can make visually impressive and distracting films, they're empty and frustrating. So you come out of the theater dazzled but increasingly as time goes on, annoyed and disappointed.

 

Quote

 

So a Nod to the Storyline of Injustice or the Justice Lords, just using Timetravel rather then alternate Dimension Travel to fix it?

Those were some pretty good storylines. Also a bit dark, but that just goes with the Thematic.

 

 

Sure, and I could see that... ten years down the road, after you've told other stories to set up the universe.  Not right out of the box.

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11 hours ago, archer said:

I've never seen the point of putting people in charge who hate the source material, don't know the source material, or are apathetic toward the source material.

 

And it doesn't matter if you are talking Snyder's DC movies, JJ Abrams Star Trek, or JJ Abrams Star Wars.

If I recall correctly, the person who originally started Smallville was a lesser version of this. It's why he swore there would never be a costume or Superman flying. He never understood the character. It's why it seemed like it took a few years to really get going, because he left. Course, I loved the Lex Luthor from the show and still despise Eisenberg's Luthor (I don't despise Eisenberg and like him in other roles). Sadly, I think someone else doing Dawn of Justice could have made Lex less Joker and more "sympathetic" megalomaniac. I think of Smallville Luthor or Lois and Clark Luthor - worked to be the height of human intelligence and economic/political power and then along comes a man who can fly. "Oh, one more thing. If you ever need to find me, all you have to do is look up."

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J.J. Abrams isn't as much to blame for Star Warts as Kathleen Kennedy is. She's the one who never "got" Star Wars growing up, doesn't particularly care for it, never wanted the job to oversee it, and decided that if she was going to be stuck with the job that she was going to make Star Wars "for people like her". And I suspect that's precisely what we got, despite J.J.'s best attempts to give us a continuation of the Star Wars saga the fans would recognize (which probably explains why The Force Awakens felt so much like A New Hope: Greatest Hits).

 

And while the Smallville writer's bible said "No flight, no tights," I never felt that was because the showrunners didn't like or understand the superhero genre. No, that honor goes to Tim Kring, the creator of Heroes, who has gone on record numerous times saying he never "got" the whole "costumes and codenames thing," and so never made them part of his show.

 

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7 minutes ago, zslane said:

J.J. Abrams isn't as much to blame for Star Warts as Kathleen Kennedy is. She's the one who never "got" Star Wars growing up, doesn't particularly care for it, never wanted the job to oversee it, and decided that if she was going to be stuck with the job that she was going to make Star Wars "for people like her". And I suspect that's precisely what we got, despite J.J.'s best attempts to give us a continuation of the Star Wars saga the fans would recognize (which probably explains why The Force Awakens felt so much like A New Hope: Greatest Hits).

 

 

 

 

I was slightly more willing to give JJ Abrams the benefit of the doubt before he contacted 50 (IIRC) science fiction writers to ask them which of the Star Trek the original series episodes that he should rewrite for his next movie.

 

How lazy is it for Abrams to contact actual professional science fiction writers, most of whom would be thrilled to work on a Star trek movie, only to waste their talent by polling them about which fifty year old TV episode he should rip off for his next movie?

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20 hours ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

OK this panel includes details on what Zach Snyder wanted to do with Justice League and... well, let's just say he saw the previous films he'd done and thought "wow, those are too upbeat"

 

 

See, Darkseid kills Lois Lane

Superman goes berserk and evil

Darkseid takes over the world

The heroes have to go back in time to alter history to prevent that from happening

 

This is the kind of story you do ten years down the road once you have an audience and built the universe up, it not what you smash fans in the face with two movies in, particularly having already really annoyed them.

 

I didn't know Sylvester Stallone was in Justice League.

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1 minute ago, archer said:

 

I was slightly more willing to give JJ Abrams the benefit of the doubt before he contacted 50 (IIRC) science fiction writers to ask them which of the Star Trek the original series episodes that he should rewrite for his next movie.

 

which one of hismovies was that for?

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11 minutes ago, zslane said:

J.J. Abrams isn't as much to blame for Star Warts as Kathleen Kennedy is. She's the one who never "got" Star Wars growing up, doesn't particularly care for it, never wanted the job to oversee it, and decided that if she was going to be stuck with the job that she was going to make Star Wars "for people like her". And I suspect that's precisely what we got, despite J.J.'s best attempts to give us a continuation of the Star Wars saga the fans would recognize (which probably explains why The Force Awakens felt so much like A New Hope: Greatest Hits).

 

And while the Smallville writer's bible said "No flight, no tights," I never felt that was because the showrunners didn't like or understand the superhero genre. No, that honor goes to Tim Kring, the creator of Heroes, who has gone on record numerous times saying he never "got" the whole "costumes and codenames thing," and so never made them part of his show.

 

 

 

If you have J.J. Abrams make DC Movies you know what you'll get.  Lens Flares!

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1 hour ago, dmjalund said:

which one of hismovies was that for?

 

The not yet made, to the best of my knowledge, next Kelvin timeline Star Trek movie. The planned time travel one with Thor fell apart some time in 2018 because they couldn't get the actor onboard so I took it that this was a search for a replacement plot.

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J.J. Abrams isn't as much to blame for Star Warts as Kathleen Kennedy is. She's the one who never "got" Star Wars growing up, doesn't particularly care for it, never wanted the job to oversee it, and decided that if she was going to be stuck with the job that she was going to make Star Wars "for people like her". And I suspect that's precisely what we got, despite J.J.'s best attempts to give us a continuation of the Star Wars saga the fans would recognize (which probably explains why The Force Awakens felt so much like A New Hope: Greatest Hits).

 

I agree, but Abrams hasn't done anyone any favors, either.  He's just not any good at visual storytelling, which is kind of his job as a director.  He should stay second unit/cinematographer, which he's great at.

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2 hours ago, archer said:

 

The not yet made, to the best of my knowledge, next Kelvin timeline Star Trek movie. The planned time travel one with Thor fell apart some time in 2018 because they couldn't get the actor onboard so I took it that this was a search for a replacement plot.

 

Neither Hemsworth nor Pine, at this point.

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Just watched Aquaman. I liked it. Couldn't really find anything wrong with it*, and liked the way they integrated comic book elements. "I'm going to need a bigger helmet."

 

*I'm giving it a pass for two Atlanteans walking across the Saraha nonchalantly and for the legs on the giant seahorses. Those seahorse legs were a little disturbing, though.

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8 minutes ago, Pattern Ghost said:

Atlanteans walking across the Saraha nonchalantly

Apparently these Atlanteas do not have a requirement to stay moisturized. Instead what keeps them from occupation of the surface is that only Nobles can apparently breath air and water. The rest of the soldiers need a space suit equivalent.

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19 hours ago, Cassandra said:

If you have J.J. Abrams make DC Movies you know what you'll get.  Lens Flares!

He got most of them out of his System with the first Star Trek Film.

 

16 hours ago, Ternaugh said:

Boy, that Kathleen Kennedy just wrecks everything that she touches!

I did find the early Indiana Jones movies, ET, Gremlins Franchise, Back to the Future Francise, Hook and a host of other early films of her pretty good.

Maybe it went downhill with 2000? But I do not know enough 2000's movies to clearly say it.

 

15 hours ago, Cassandra said:

The DC Extended Universe did something no one in the World thought would happen.  They made Aquaman the most popular male character in the movie series.

 

At least until Shazam!

To be fair, Aquaman being unfavored was really just a Superfriends aberation. Even his Justice League and JLU Cartoon appereances could not really wipe off that stain.

 

But then there were plenty of Characters in that show that were just goofy. I mean how threathening can you make Joker, Darkseid or Braniac in a Saturday Morning Cartoon? So if anything, Aquaman was unfairly singeled out here as an example for the whole Show.

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2 hours ago, Pattern Ghost said:

Just watched Aquaman. I liked it. Couldn't really find anything wrong with it*, and liked the way they integrated comic book elements. "I'm going to need a bigger helmet."

 

*I'm giving it a pass for two Atlanteans walking across the Saraha nonchalantly and for the legs on the giant seahorses. Those seahorse legs were a little disturbing, though.

I ahven't seen it yet, but I plan to.  I don't go to theaters that much anymore so I usually wait for movies to hit the rent option. 

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