DC Movies- if at first you don't succeed...

[Doc Democracy]

On 12/17/2019 at 1:09 AM, Hugh Neilson said:

So what?  If the individual movies are solid and worth watching, why do they need to tie together for a larger universe?

 

Harrumph!!  Hear Hear!!

 

Continuity/coherence ruined comics and is ruining my superhero movie consumption!!!

[Lord Liaden]

16 hours ago, zslane said:

 

I feel the same way he does. We (as fans) just need to get Superman into the hands of a superfan (ala Kevin Feige), someone who loves Superman's original ethos of hopeful, compassion idealism, and wants to deliver it undiluted by contemporary cynicism.

Of course, to the suits at WB that would sound redundant since they already have Wonder Woman carrying that flag. So in order to set Superman apart from Wonder Woman, they will continue to desperately look for a way to "re-imagine" him so that he "fits in" to today's jaded and complicated age and speaks to the current generation who thinks hopeful, compassionate idealism is woefully old-fashioned and hopelessly naive.

 

I have to say, Brandon Routh's recent short speech as the continuation of Chris Reeve's Superman, from CW's recent Crisis on Infinite Earths crossover, is the best encapsulation of what Superman is meant to be that I've seen/heard in live action in many years. However,

 

16 hours ago, slikmar said:

On a different tack, I am avoiding the Crisis thread, as I plan to record and binge watch it,

 

Then you may not want to watch this video below, Slikmar.

 

 

[zslane]

I think the question of whether Argus could or would co-exist with the DEO leads to the larger question of how, or even if, aliens will be introduced into Earth-1 to the same extent that they existed on Earth-38. If so, then the DEO would have a purpose, and would likely keep jurisdiction over aliens since Argus didn't really deal with that on Earth-1. But if not, then a major element of the Supergirl tv show will be discarded, requiring that show to be heavily re-oriented/re-imagined.

 

I feel it is entirely possible that some, if not all, the multiple Earths will be restored, "unsnapped" back into existence as it were, just as Kara hopes to see happen. It's not like having these shows on different Earths has been an issue for the CW, either narratively or economically. The CW is not burdened with decades of conflicting and contradictory continuity that needs cleaning up; this "Crisis" event is just a pretense to do their annual crossover on a larger scale, and in a way that gets people talking about it on social media. It isn't a pretense to re-organize and streamline their various superhero shows since, after all, they don't really need re-organizing or streamlining.

[Matt the Bruins]

On 12/19/2019 at 1:00 PM, zslane said:

The CW is not burdened with decades of conflicting and contradictory continuity that needs cleaning up...

Right, just fixing the tangle of a few years' worth of senseless retconning on The Flash should do the trick.

[Old Man]

To be released on HBO Max: The Zack Snyder cut of Justice League

 

In case your pandemic wasn't sufficiently grimdark already.

[Bazza]

It’s real. 

[Lord Liaden]

Whatever it's like, at least people will stop demanding it be released like the damn Kraken.

[Ternaugh]

I'm now picturing Superman's mustache being stop-motion animated by Ray Harryhausen.

[Bazza]

16 hours ago, Ternaugh said:

I'm now picturing Superman's mustache being stop-motion animated by Ray Harryhausen.

 

Maybe the curl in his hair that is in front of his forehead? 

[Greywind]

Superman Fans Are Ecstatic to Have Henry Cavill Returning

[Old Man]

I like Henry Cavill.  I hope someone can write him a good script someday.

[Bazza]

Me too, I’d add, that I hope someone can direct him well someday. 

[Starlord]

I hope he has the mustache for the next movie.

[Spence]

4 hours ago, Bazza said:

Me too, I’d add, that I hope someone can direct him well someday. 

Perhaps someone that has actually read a Superman comic from the time they wrote superheroes and not material after they stopped writing comics will direct?  The modern graphic novels about indifferent bloodsplaterman have been disappointing at best. 

 

But then we are talking follywood and DC movies here....

[slikmar]

Ok, I would love to see Cavil get a real shot at playing Superman/Clark.

 

On the other hand, did anyone read that article? It can be summed up in this quote:

Snyder originally planned for the actor to pop up in the second Justice League movie, but the plans were scuttled when the studio brought in Joss Whedon to finish the film in post-production. That decision still draws the ire of some fans to this day.

 

umm, WHAT? Please do not give us another Snyder take on Superman. To my knowledge, the ire of fans were for the vision Snyder was using.

[Michael Hopcroft]

So the general consensus here is that Justice League as released was a bad movie and the Snyder Cut will probably be even worse?

 

Other DC movies have shots, but as for the Justice League series, is cutting bait and walking away even considered an option?

[zslane]

I feel that Snyder's upcoming changes are basically an attempt to put lipstick on a chicken. There's simply no saving Justice League. Whedon may have added dubious elements to it, but it was rotten to the core before he got his hands on it, IMO.

[Scott Ruggels]

On 12/19/2019 at 3:55 AM, Doc Democracy said:

 

Harrumph!!  Hear Hear!!

 

Continuity/coherence ruined comics and is ruining my superhero movie consumption!!!

Wow. That’s a take I haven’t heard often. Nor do I agree with it. I find a Lone Superhero fairly implausible and not that interesting. 

[Old Man]

1 hour ago, zslane said:

I feel that Snyder's upcoming changes are basically an attempt to put lipstick on a chicken. There's simply no saving Justice League. Whedon may have added dubious elements to it, but it was rotten to the core before he got his hands on it, IMO.

 

I continue to be amazed that the man is still allowed to set foot in a movie studio, let alone direct films.

[Ternaugh]

1 hour ago, Old Man said:

 

I continue to be amazed that the man is still allowed to set foot in a movie studio, let alone direct films.

 

It's all good. DC is getting JJ Abrams, so they should be put out of their misery fairly soon.

[Bazza]

Justice League Is still the DCEU film I’d watch again out of all of them. 

[Doc Democracy]

5 hours ago, Scott Ruggels said:

Wow. That’s a take I haven’t heard often. Nor do I agree with it. I find a Lone Superhero fairly implausible and not that interesting. 

Not sure what I said entails a lone superhero.

 

I absolutely hate the fact that every movie has to carry the weight of everything that went before.  I am less inclined to watch a movie if I need to watch another in the franchise to appreciate it fully.

 

Comics carry the same problem and there becomes a constraint on writers who cannot write a story because it disagrees with what happened before or makes changes noone is willing to wear for the future of the franchise.

 

Mega cross-over events/stories are what finally turned a 10-14 title habit into buying the odd graphic novel.

 

Doc

[Old Man]

That and splitting storylines across multiple titles, making them next to impossible to track and keep up with.

 

It's possible that Superman is too difficult to make a successful movie out of.  More knowledgeable people than I have pointed out that Superman (and -girl) fare much better as TV series, where the episodic format and lower budgets force writers to focus on Clark and Kara, not effects-laden battle royales.

[Spence]

1 hour ago, Doc Democracy said:

Comics carry the same problem and there becomes a constraint on writers who cannot write a story because it disagrees with what happened before or makes changes no one is willing to wear for the future of the franchise.

 

Mega cross-over events/stories are what finally turned a 10-14 title habit into buying the odd graphic novel.

 

Comics didn't fail because of developing canon.  They fails because the creators completely lost sight of what a comic was and spun out into idiot land.

 

For me the Mega cross-over didn't kill my interest in comics, they simply failed to to re-kindle any interest years after P-poor story lines had already made me abandon regular reading. 

 

Every once in a while I swing by ye old comic emporium to see if anything appears.  So far only disappointment.

[Scott Ruggels]

1 hour ago, Doc Democracy said:

Not sure what I said entails a lone superhero.

 

I absolutely hate the fact that every movie has to carry the weight of everything that went before.  I am less inclined to watch a movie if I need to watch another in the franchise to appreciate it fully.

 

there are two audiences for comic-: The fans and the general public. The fans adore the world building and the tight continuity. It’s adds greatly to their enjoyment of the property. The general audiences enjoy a good story, and the comic editor want to turn the general audience into fans. Discussions of the continuity are

often what builds the fan community.
 

1 hour ago, Doc Democracy said:

 

Comics carry the same problem and there becomes a constraint on writers who cannot write a story because it disagrees with what happened before or makes changes noone is willing to wear for the future of the franchise.

 

As a working creatives, right limitations often help

to produce better stories. In general, a superhero story is a  hard magic system so it needs consistency and continuity, or the story is bad, like a lot of 1950’s Superman stories. There are good

writers and bad writers,  and the comics never paid well

so you either got bad writers, good writers who were fans, and good but lazy writers hoping to get a job in Hollywood. So I do not think tight continuity is responsible for the decline of writing quality, but often a property is just at the end of its life

cycle, and it either ceases publication, or it is rebooted.