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DC Movies- if at first you don't succeed...


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36 minutes ago, Dr. MID-Nite said:

-Kristen Wiig is surprisingly good given the fact that she's more commonly known for her comedic roles. She pretty much plays it straight here (and to good effect), but....see below.

 

I didn't realize she was an actress let alone a comedian.  But when I did a search I realized she was one of the new breed of comedian I have been calling "the unfunny".  IIRC she was in the new Ghostbusters that cratered. A lot of excuseswere made for that one when it was just not funny.

 

It is probably a generational thing but most of the new funny I see is as good as 5th grade fart jokes.  Funny while you were in the 5th grade, and then you grow up.

 

 

 

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7 hours ago, Spence said:

 

I didn't realize she was an actress let alone a comedian.  But when I did a search I realized she was one of the new breed of comedian I have been calling "the unfunny".  IIRC she was in the new Ghostbusters that cratered. A lot of excuseswere made for that one when it was just not funny.

 

It is probably a generational thing but most of the new funny I see is as good as 5th grade fart jokes.  Funny while you were in the 5th grade, and then you grow up.

 

 

 

 

I didn't say that all those comedic roles were good....just that she's known for them (particularly Bridesmaids). Not really the point though. The point was that Wiig was one of the better things in this film because her performance was actually decent.

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3 minutes ago, Dr. MID-Nite said:

 

I didn't say that all those comedic roles were good....just that she's known for them (particularly Bridesmaids). Not really the point though. The point was that Wiig was one of the better things in this film because her performance was actually decent.

 

I didn't mean to imply anything.  

I really was surprised by her being "famous" because I didn't recognize her at all.  Once I googled her name I realized she was in Ghostbusters. 

All I remember from that was it being boring with a lot of cussing that was supposed to be funny, but I couldn't name the cast without looking it up.   

 

But you are right that so far the cast is doing well and definitely better than I could do.  But so far the movie has been just dragging and I have yet to work up the interest needed to go back and finish it.

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6 minutes ago, Old Man said:

Does anyone want to take a shot at statting out WW's magic lasso this time?  All the powers of web-shooters, Mjolnir, and the Hypno-Toad put together?

 

I thought the most notable major upgrade is that all of it affects unsolid things like a bolt of lightning and cloud formations.

 

That'll be a lot of fun in the next movie if they decide that not only she can lasso a cloud and pull herself toward it but that she can also pull the cloud toward her. Or maybe pull a ray of sunshine toward herself. That'll give her some nifty Change Environment powers plus turn her into a more effective vampire slayer.

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I actually enjoyed the final fight in Wonder Woman, because it fit where the story had led. Most of the movie Diana was fighting like an Amazon, against mortal opponents. In the end she had to fight a god, on his level.

 

I very much enjoyed the rest of that movie. I enjoy a good origin story/hero's journey. I welcome superheroes who stand for principles and ideals, who inspire the best in us. I particularly appreciated that the movie showed the traditionally "feminine" virtues -- compassion, protectiveness, love -- as a source of strength, not weakness.

 

I haven't seen WW84 yet, and probably won't for quite some time. I can't get to an open theater in my region, and I don't stream.

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49 minutes ago, Spence said:

You mean the first movie, correct?

 

What did you think?

It is one of my favorite supers movies.

I don't get out much nowadays so yes it is the first movie.

 

I enjoyed it. There have been several supers films on over the holidays. Spiderman: Homecoming, Wonder Woman and Justice League. I'll get to see a repeat of the latter on Sunday.

The story works and the iconic moment when we first see Diana in full costume coming out of the trench and charging the German lines is handled well. I was not keen on the whole 'Ares killed everyone else' storyline as I do not care for the whole 'pushing one god' mentality in fiction with multiple gods cf The Clash of the Titans remake. The battles were not over the top or stretch the imagination. People died but there was a genuine attempt to save them and not mindlessly kill them for the sake of it cf Man of Steel.

Gil Gadot did well and they made Steve Trevor interesting without detracting from Wonder Woman. 

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Yep, I'd agree with that.

 

There are things I may have preferred to be different.  But overall WW was a solid superhero movie with credible attention towards the supers being heroic.  

 

To me Gadot's portrayal of WW fit with the character from the comics I remember. 

 

The movie made a decent showing of period social norms without going all preachy. 

 

Good movie.

 

 

 

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interesting essay on the problems with Snyder’s interpretation of The DC Superheroes. 
 

https://arkhavencomics.com/2020/12/30/the-superheroic-virtues-prudence/

 

 

Wonder Woman 1984 was overlong, self-indulgent, boring and crushed under the burden of its caricatures of 1980’s MEN.  However, its biggest problem was handed to it three or four movies ago, when Diana told Bruce Wayne that after she had lost the love of her life, she had withdrawn from the world, apparently for 100 years. 

Snyder turned Diana Prince from Wonder Woman into the Dread Ayesha waiting thousands of years for her one true love to be reincarnated.  He never had any kind of handle on the character.  This is about as bad as Padme “dying of sadness” because Anakin had turned to the Dark Side (admittedly, Lucas is pretty autistic in his own right). 

Simply put, Wonder Woman wouldn’t do that.  She is the embodiment of too many of the heroic virtues of…

Prudence: the ability to always discern which is the path, that is right to take.  Whether or not it will be the easiest is immaterial it is the Right thing or it isn’t. 

Temperance: the practice of self-control and moderation.  Self-restraint in all things from extremes in emotions to extremes in pride and grief.  This is critically important in those that have great power.

Justice:  Having a strong sense of fairness.

Courage: The strength to carry out the other virtues.  To able to confront fear, uncertainty and extreme opposition.  To follow those virtues regardless of the painful burdens of personal sacrifice they will entail.   The strength to keep going when all hope is lost.

 

 

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So WW is, more then Supes, the Steve Rogers of the DCEU. And agreed. I look forward to the movie, wish I could afford to stream it. Other problem with the movies being released to this cable first with no theaters, for me, is pricing on them tends to assume family - 2 adults, 1 or 2 kids. I am solo. when I go to theater it is $7 or so dollars (or less entrance), maybe soda and popcorn, so perhaps an expenditure (while earning or using points) of about $15-$18. most new releases I have seen run around $25, afaik.

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1 hour ago, Scott Ruggels said:

interesting essay on the problems with Snyder’s interpretation of The DC Superheroes. 
 

https://arkhavencomics.com/2020/12/30/the-superheroic-virtues-prudence/

 

 

It was a shocking read.  I had given up on the thought that there are still people out there that understand the concept of superheroes. 

But I noticed that there was already the expected "you missed the point of the movie" comment. 

 

Just like in an RPG playing a hero is "hard" so many people are just playing amoral or outright villains simply because it is easy and can generally be done without too much actual risk in comparison. Of course they don't understand that that also is why the story's and plots are getting less epic and more blah.   

 

Anyway, that was a good article and I hope I remember to check and see if the follow on ones are as good.

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8 hours ago, Scott Ruggels said:

interesting essay on the problems with Snyder’s interpretation of The DC Superheroes. 
 

https://arkhavencomics.com/2020/12/30/the-superheroic-virtues-prudence/

 

A decent article overall, but the criticism of WW84 is exaggerated for effect.  Any sequel to the original WW film was going to have to explain why WW wasn't openly fighting evil for however many decades had passed between movies.  Furthermore, by the end of the first film Diana was struggling to reconcile her ideals with a hostile and disappointing real world.  Despite this, in WW84 we clearly see that she still fights injustice and crime on at least a small scale.  Superman can have a secret ID, why can't WW?  "Dread Ayesha" is laughably over the top.

 

On top of that, there's this conceit that superheroes like WW have their character set in stone once the origin story is over.  It's core to the genre, I get it.  But it makes for lousy storytelling.  The only way for a writer to create dramatic tension with an overpowered character like WW is to set her at odds against herself.  Again, Superman once reversed time in order to "resurrect" his SO, and in fact he never did have to deal with the death of his true love the way Diana does.  To insist that WW would have, or should have, immediately given up Trevor out of "prudence" or whatever, is to expect her to be a machine.  And still in the end she does deliberately give him up--again, a greater sacrifice than is asked of any other JL member.

 

That said... yeah, Snyder sucks.

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9 hours ago, Old Man said:

On top of that, there's this conceit that superheroes like WW have their character set in stone once the origin story is over.

 

The core of their character absolutely should be set in stone. It is literally what defines them as characters. However, the full spectrum of those core personality traits can, and should, be explored and evolved in careful, nuanced ways over time. In that context, I would not categorize Snyder's Superman as a carefully curated, nuanced exploration of the character. It would categorize it as something of a hatchet job.

 

With Wonder Woman it is harder to tell if she was more responsibly handled since we didn't get to see her personality evolve between 1918 and 1984. But I would expect that for a woman who had lived for hundreds of years prior to her first interaction with "Man's World", her core character would have been firmly established and not subject to dramatic shifts. Not even the horrors of the Great War would change a warrior princess like Diana enough to strip her of her core identity and value set. That's why it is difficult to watch her suddenly transition from warrior to sentinel without any explanation whatsoever.

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While I agree that establishing Diana as having sat out most of a century of war and injustice so she could be unknown to the world in BvS is problematic, I think Snyder did actually "get" Wonder Woman, better than he did Superman and Batman in fact. She's portrayed as smart, capable, compassionate, courageous to the point of fearlessness, and ultimately willing to do what needs doing even if she'd rather be elsewhere. She was easily the best part of her debut movie. And I have the distinct feeling that every frame of film from Justice League that objectified Diana or played her for laughs was Whedon's doing rather than Snyder's.

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1 hour ago, Matt the Bruins said:

While I agree that establishing Diana as having sat out most of a century of war and injustice so she could be unknown to the world in BvS is problematic, I think Snyder did actually "get" Wonder Woman, better than he did Superman and Batman in fact. She's portrayed as smart, capable, compassionate, courageous to the point of fearlessness, and ultimately willing to do what needs doing even if she'd rather be elsewhere. She was easily the best part of her debut movie. And I have the distinct feeling that every frame of film from Justice League that objectified Diana or played her for laughs was Whedon's doing rather than Snyder's.

 

Agreed.  Although I think Diana's character is mostly brought out by Gal Gadot's acting and Patty Jenkins direction...far more than Snyder.  He was just (successfully) playing off that portrayal which was already in the can when JL was being made.

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