DC Movies- if at first you don't succeed...

[archer]

12 minutes ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

Dr Fate is one of my more favorite characters from DC but.... I mean if he's up against Black Adam, then Adam better make out his freaking will.

 

That's my opinion as well.

 

But since it's Black Adam's movie, they'll power down Dr. Fate enough that he's either a punching bag opponent or Adam's second-banana sidekick.

[Christopher R Taylor]

My guess is that Fate will be his power source/mentor type.

[slikmar]

15 hours ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

Chiklis felt right as the Thing but didn't look right at all.

From what I understood at the time, it was Chiklis who insisted on the suit, as he didn't think CGI at the time was good enough to give the emotions he wanted too. Can't blame him, since I know he campaigned to play the character from the start.

1 hour ago, zslane said:

The character is a white European dude who is given Middle Eastern magic artifacts and trained by a Middle Eastern god in the ways of Middle Eastern sorcery

sooo, your saying he is Dr. Strange, where they changed the Ancient Asian teacher to a White English Woman.

[Lord Liaden]

I noticed that when the animated Justice League brought in Dr. Fate, they gave him a Middle Eastern accent.

 

I acknowledge that Dr. Fate has far more versatile powers than Black Adam, but the magic of the Egyptian gods that powers Adam may not be something that Fate can just dismiss with a wave of his hand. If it comes down to a test of strength, Adam is one of the strongest in the DCU.

[Greywind]

10 hours ago, zslane said:

 

It might be if you're fan of fidelity to the comics. But it might also meet with a bit of controversy given the current social climate. The character is a white European dude who is given Middle Eastern magic artifacts and trained by a Middle Eastern god in the ways of Middle Eastern sorcery. Or some variation thereof, where the one constant is a white European dude wielding powers belonging to Middle Eastern culture.

 

And Hawkman is a black guy. It evens out.

[Lord Liaden]

I know that the previous host for Nabu, the Lord of Order who possesses Dr. Fate, was technically from the pagan era of the Middle East, but Nabu and his magic have little to do with any real-world magical tradition. He's more cosmic entity than sorcerer. Fate, Strange and their ilk were just created in an era when the East was popularly considered the realm of the occult, while the West was the home of empirical science. That's despite millennia of magic traditions in European culture, up to the modern day.

[Bazza]

Magical traditions, mystic traditions, and even philosophic traditions. Basically in that era, and still much today, the East was considered 'mysterious' and the West 'rational'. 

[zslane]

9 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

Nabu and his magic have little to do with any real-world magical tradition.

 

Nor does Wakanda have anything to do with any real-world tribal tradition (nor is it a real-world African nation). But it would be a very bad idea to give some western European white dude the mantle of Black Panther just the same.

[Lord Liaden]

Apples and oranges. Wakanda exists as a symbol of black Africa's potential. Pre-Muslim magic traditions aren't part of  popular cultural consciousness in the Middle East, and even if they were, Nabu isn't from that tradition. It's like the Ancient One in the MCU. In the comics he was an Oriental male because that was the popular Western association with mysticism at the time the character was created. But those sorcerers practice comic-book style magic, not any magic tradition from a real-world culture.

[Matt the Bruins]

On 3/25/2021 at 2:34 PM, Lord Liaden said:

I acknowledge that Dr. Fate has far more versatile powers than Black Adam, but the magic of the Egyptian gods that powers Adam may not be something that Fate can just dismiss with a wave of his hand. If it comes down to a test of strength, Adam is one of the strongest in the DCU.

It really depends on where they see Dr. Fate standing amongst the ranks of superheroes. The Helm of Nabu is supposed to contain power exceeding that of Darkseid or similar pantheon-leading gods, but that doesn't mean that Kent will be able to use it freely, or without cost. Plus the physical augmentation it grants it wearer, while impressive to the common man, is nowhere near the Captain Marvel/Black Adam level and pointedly doesn't include superhuman speed.

[Greywind]

26 minutes ago, Matt the Bruins said:

It really depends on where they see Dr. Fate standing amongst the ranks of superheroes. The Helm of Nabu is supposed to contain power exceeding that of Darkseid or similar pantheon-leading gods, but that doesn't mean that Kent will be able to use it freely, or without cost. Plus the physical augmentation it grants it wearer, while impressive to the common man, is nowhere near the Captain Marvel/Black Adam level and pointedly doesn't include superhuman speed.

 

The bill always comes due.

[archer]

1 hour ago, Matt the Bruins said:

It really depends on where they see Dr. Fate standing amongst the ranks of superheroes. The Helm of Nabu is supposed to contain power exceeding that of Darkseid or similar pantheon-leading gods, but that doesn't mean that Kent will be able to use it freely, or without cost. Plus the physical augmentation it grants it wearer, while impressive to the common man, is nowhere near the Captain Marvel/Black Adam level and pointedly doesn't include superhuman speed.

 

Dr. Fate has been shown creating portals between dimensions. I've always thought the best defense against any superman would be to displace him then shut the door behind him.

 

Though that wouldn't a very cinematic end to a movie where the superman is the protagonist.

[archer]

• • Telekinesis
  • Flight: Using his telekinesis Kent may attain remarkable airspeeds
  • Levitation
  • Damage Resistance
  • Enhanced Strength: Kent may use his telekinetic power to supplement his physical strength

• Enhanced Sorcery: Due to the Helmet of Nabu, the Amulet of Anubis, and the Cloak of Destiny, it includes Universal and Dimensional Spells
  • Mystical Bolts
  • Magic
    • Spells: Ability to summon and use large amounts of magic to perform almost any feat such as shields, teleportation, increasing size etc.
  • Illusion Casting
  • Invisibility
  • Phasing
  • Flight
  • Levitation
  • Astral Projection
  • Dimensional Manipulation
  • Energy Manipulation
  • Enhanced Intellect
  • Retrocognition: The ability to see the past.
  • Intuitive Knowledge: Access to insight and vast knowledge of the mystical and occult from spells to rituals and etc.
  • Psychometry: The ability to see the past as well as the possible future of an object.
  • Cosmic Awareness: All senses are attuned to the universe.
  • Magical Detection
  • Time Travel: The ability to travel through the time-stream.
  • Energy Projection
  • Telekinesis
  • Superhuman Strength
  • Superhuman Speed
  • Summoning and Banishment: The ability to summon creatures or banish creatures.
  • Invulnerability
  • Teleportation
    • Interstellar Teleportation
    • Dimensional Teleportation
  • Energy Construct Creation
    • Solid Energy Constructs
  • Transmutation
  • Immortality

That's the list of powers attributed to the Helmet of Fate.

https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Helmet_of_Fate

 

• House of Souls: The amulet has also been shown to house the souls of many who have worn the vestments of Fate.
• Dimensional Travel: The amulet contains a pocket dimension inside it.
• Eldritch Blast: Create a mystic beam.^[4]
• Obscure: Render the user undetectable to magical detection.^[1]
• Divine Empowerment: Increase the user's sorcery.^[1]
• Reality Perception: Dr Fate can see the network patterns of matter and energy that form the universe with unearthly ability. This enables the following abilities:
  • Extra-dimensional Detection
  • Cosmic Perception
  • Penetrate illusions: ability to penetrate illusions by focusing on the true energy patterns of a being or object.
  • Gauge Condition: ability to perceive the physical and mental condition of a being.
  • Alternate Reality Sight: ability to perceive the occurrences in other realities.
  • True Sight: ability to penetrate concealment and disguises, and see the true nature of matter.
  • Dimensional Sight: ability to perceive occurrences beyond the barrier of dimensions.
• True Sight: See through matter.
• Aura Perception: Dr Fate can virtually see and gain knowledge of almost everything about a person or an object a person has been in proximity with. Seeing an aura can indicate the following:
  • Karma: The Karma of a character
  • Health: The Health of a character
  • Ability Power Level: The power level of an ability
  • Object Power Level: The power level of an object
  • True Form: The true Physical Form of a character or object
• Ability Boost: Dr Fate may double any one ability or power cast.

That's the abilities of the Amulet of Anubis.

https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Amulet_of_Anubis

 

The cloak doesn't list any powers other than being fireproof.

[archer]

For comparison purposes, Black Adam:

https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Teth-Adam_(Prime_Earth)

[Pattern Ghost]

The Dr. Fate abilities look like they were fan made Marvel FASERIP write ups.

[Starlord]

Wow, the original Suicide Squad movie was a completely trainwreck, but...well, if trailers were movies, this wins the Starlord Oscars. 

 

 

[DreadDomain]

I just watched the Snyder Cut. Holy crap, it's good! It's long and it starts fairly slow but it builds up the characters and the story nicely and by the time you get to the climax, you have a sense that it was difficult but worthwhile to get there. When Superman shows us in the final scene, he tips the balance so finally the team can hope to win but he doesn't save the day. Everyone plays a role. The Darkseid/Justice League stare down was brilliant.

 

The movie screams for a sequel and a Batman/Deathstroke movie. 

[Greywind]

And Affleck's last hurrah as Batman is supposed to be the Flash movie.

[Spence]

1 hour ago, DreadDomain said:

I just watched the Snyder Cut. Holy crap, it's good!

 

Well, I am willing to give it a shot.  After all the movie can only go up from what I saw before.

But that won't be for a while, especially with HBOMax as the only place to see it.  I tried HBOM for a bit and my god, what a worthless library.  I'm guessing the movie deal is the last gasp to avoid bankruptcy because what was available to watch was an unbelievably insipid and uninteresting list of blah.  

 

Anyway I'll be waiting till it "goes to video".

[archer]

"I tried HBOM for a bit and my god, what a worthless library."

 

QFT

[Lord Liaden]

3 hours ago, archer said:

 

Dr. Fate has been shown creating portals between dimensions. I've always thought the best defense against any superman would be to displace him then shut the door behind him.

 

Though that wouldn't a very cinematic end to a movie where the superman is the protagonist.

 

The trick is always to get him through the portal. With a superstrong guy who flies, not so simple.

[archer]

5 minutes ago, Lord Liaden said:

 

The trick is always to get him through the portal. With a superstrong guy who flies, not so simple.

 

Depends on how fast you can open and close a portal, how fast the superstrong guy is moving, how agile he is turn turn around and come back through before the portal closes, and...

 

whether he knows he's in combat or any danger.

 

With a guy like Dr. Fate who can be invisible and who flies himself, he could have someone like Black Adam teleported across interstellar distances or locked away in another dimension before Black Adam even knew he was being targeted.

 

Heck Dr. Fate could ambush him while he's asleep if nothing else.

 

The only reason something like that doesn't happen is that it doesn't make for an interesting story, not because it would be difficult to pull off.

[Lord Liaden]

As you appropriately point out, the writer decides how these events will fall out. But it isn't cut and dried. The situation is dynamic, and many factors can come into play. I like to take the often-mentioned example of Superman carrying a non-flying opponent into space for an easy win. Mike Habjan, in his excellent series of animated short films depicting a prolonged fight between Superman and the Hulk, illustrates how that tactic could be much more problematic than it sounds.

 

 

35 minutes ago, archer said:

Heck Dr. Fate could ambush him while he's asleep if nothing else.

 

And Superman could fly in at super-speed while Fate is asleep, of even if he's awake, and crush his skull before he could cast a spell. But there are circumstances in either case that mitigate an automatic outcome. Can you sneak up on someone who has superhuman senses or mystic perceptions? Do dimensional portals have to be in static locations, or can they chase a target? If the latter, do they move faster than the target? How easy is it to knock that helmet off Dr. Fate's head? None of these necessarily have to apply in a given combat, but they all potentially could, giving a writer enough justification to decide the outcome for story reasons.

 

With respect, you're thinking like a gamer, looking for angles you can exploit in order to win. Not like a storyteller, wanting to entertain an audience without resorting to the wildly improbable. Those are different priorities.

[Bazza]

3 hours ago, Pattern Ghost said:

The Dr. Fate abilities look like they were fan made Marvel FASERIP write ups.

Here you go:

https://classicmarvelforever.com/cast/doctor_fate1.htm

[archer]

3 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

 

With respect, you're thinking like a gamer, looking for angles you can exploit in order to win. Not like a storyteller, wanting to entertain an audience without resorting to the wildly improbable. 

 

With no respect intended, I already freaking pointed that out.

 

And in an actual fight against someone who is empowered by six Egyptian gods, would Dr. Fate be looking for angles to exploit in order to survive. Or would he be looking to create an epic story.