DC Movies- if at first you don't succeed...

[Pattern Ghost]

15 minutes ago, archer said:

With no respect intended,

 

As a neutral bystander . . . let's not let the nerd fights get bloody here. We're all friends here with common interests.

[Lord Liaden]

Archer, I believe we're talking about the same priorities, just looking at them from different perspectives. But as I'm not sure I could clarify my position without creating more upset, I'll apologize for causing offense, and withdraw.

[Dr. MID-Nite]

I'm not sure I can sit through a 4 hour JL movie....

 

[death tribble]

I was going to ask if anyone had seen the Snyder cut as clips are appearing on Youtube. Darkseid looks mean.

[Certified]

Snyder lost me with Man of Steel. Haven't watched any of his DC movies. That said, I think I'm actually interested in watching the new Suicide Squad. 

[Matt the Bruins]

The Suicide Squad movie has the benefit of not featuring any characters I actually care about besides Amanda Waller, so chances of me being outraged are relatively low.

[archer]

11 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

Archer, I believe we're talking about the same priorities, just looking at them from different perspectives. But as I'm not sure I could clarify my position without creating more upset, I'll apologize for causing offense, and withdraw.

 

I am more prone to upset at some times than at others. You wandered across my trigger points at a particularly unfortunate time.

 

I value your contribution to every thread where I've seen your comments. But it probably isn't a good idea to try to clarify that particular comment with additional comments about that topic toward me in this thread at this point in time. Thank you for the wisdom in refraining.

 

But please feel free to enjoy the rest of the thread, if I haven't managed to sour it for you.

[Lord Liaden]

1 hour ago, Dr. MID-Nite said:

I'm not sure I can sit through a 4 hour JL movie....

 

 

People are praising this version for the greater depth and development of the characters, but if it takes this much run time to fit that in, that would never have been practical in a theatrical setting. It needs a venue like home viewing where one can pause the movie to use the bathroom, eat, maybe take a nap, or just stretch a bit.

 

As I don't use a streaming service I've been watching clips from the movie on YouTube. What I've been seeing is typical Zack Snyder visuals. The color palette is dark, gloomy, and washed-out. Sometimes I have trouble making out what's going on. Action sequences are flashy but brutal, and with a lot of slo-mo. It's starting to add up to be something I can admire for technique, but not truly enjoy.

[Pattern Ghost]

At four hours, they may as well have added a few extra hours and made a mini-series for HBO Max.

[archer]

I watched it all in one sitting and wished that I hadn't committed to doing so. I started watching the clock with about 45 minutes to go, anxious for it to finally be over with.

 

That's not where you want your movie to be with your hardcore demographic.

[zslane]

2 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

It needs a venue like home viewing where one can pause the movie to use the bathroom, eat, maybe take a nap, or just stretch a bit.

 

I believe an IMAX presentation is/was planned for it. That's why Snyder built in an intermission point after chapter 4.

[Lord Liaden]

Do you think it's practical to have an intermission in today's multiplex theaters? I'd be afraid of it playing merry hob with scheduling and audience traffic. That would also make a very long movie even longer, meaning fewer showings and less profit.

[Christopher R Taylor]

Suicide Squad done well could be great, but they made a disaster last time

[zslane]

There's this idea floating around that what little attention Gunn's movie is able to grab is because of Harley Quinn. If so, why is that? I mean, why is this character popular with mainstream audiences? And who exactly is Harley Quinn's primary demographic these days?

 

I have a theory about why she is popular, but it isn't a theory that the fourth wave feminists who have adopted her as their spirit animal would want to hear.

[Spence]

1 hour ago, Lord Liaden said:

Do you think it's practical to have an intermission in today's multiplex theaters? I'd be afraid of it playing merry hob with scheduling and audience traffic. That would also make a very long movie even longer, meaning fewer showings and less profit.

 

Larger multiplexes?  Nope.

 

Some smaller theaters still do.  Some of them even show double features. 

[Christopher R Taylor]

Quote

And who exactly is Harley Quinn's primary demographic these days?

 

Lonely middle aged men  She's not nearly as popular as they keep treating her as, and she's honestly not a very interesting character.  She's great in small bits or to play off Joker but not how we've seen in the movies so far.

[Spence]

16 minutes ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

 

Lonely middle aged men  She's not nearly as popular as they keep treating her as, and she's honestly not a very interesting character.  She's great in small bits or to play off Joker but not how we've seen in the movies so far.

 

Pfft.  More like unemployed youngsters that are all agog over grunge and short shorts. 

 

The character was a fun and entertaining one. 

But that character died and completely disappeared years ago. 

 

But you are correct that that mess we saw in the recent movies was lackluster and not interesting.  Especially after deleting the very traits that made up the core concept of the character.

[slikmar]

2 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

Do you think it's practical to have an intermission in today's multiplex theaters? I'd be afraid of it playing merry hob with scheduling and audience traffic. That would also make a very long movie even longer, meaning fewer showings and less profit.

Or worse, where the theaters are concerned, disliking the movie and taking the break opportunity to go into a different theater.

[DreadDomain]

4 hours ago, death tribble said:

I was going to ask if anyone had seen the Snyder cut as clips are appearing on Youtube. Darkseid looks mean.

Seen it. Loved it. The build up is long but it makes the stake feel very high. The movie is as epic as say Infinity Wars or End Game but does not benefit from the dozens of movies to set the scene. IW and EG were fun, flashy, colourful and entertaining but not a lot of characterisation. They are comic books on a big screen. The characters in JL are more fleshed out, more engaging. Every main character is fleshed out in the first half and they all significantly contribute to the victory (Cyborg and Flash even more so).

 

Having said that, I watched the movie with the acceptation that it was A Zack Snyder movie, knowing what the tone would be, what colour palette he would use but above all (at least for me) I watched it accepting the interpretrations of Aquaman and Flash did not match my vision of the characters. It's not that I do not like Momoa or Miller, they are not just the Aquaman and the Flash I expect. If I had walked in there thinking that I wanted to watch a Marvel movie, I would have been dissapointed.

 

My view is that the Snyder Cut is better than most Marvel movies.

[Certified]

2 hours ago, zslane said:

There's this idea floating around that what little attention Gunn's movie is able to grab is because of Harley Quinn. If so, why is that? I mean, why is this character popular with mainstream audiences? And who exactly is Harley Quinn's primary demographic these days?

 

I have a theory about why she is popular, but it isn't a theory that the fourth wave feminists who have adopted her as their spirit animal would want to hear.

 

For me it's not any one character. Well, maybe King Shark. Gail Simone did a breakdown of what interested her. It's a short fun read. 

 

 

[archer]

Harley Quinn got a lot of attention in the various Batman cartoon series and movies in the 1990's and later. 

 

I attribute her continuing popularity to nostalgia for that character and portrayal rather than for any particular love for the live action film portrayal or that actress. Maybe some of it due to the contrast to the cardboard cutouts they used to portray the other characters in the first Suicide Squad movie.

 

I think the actress did okay for the material she was given, but that's not saying much.

 

[Dr. MID-Nite]

2 hours ago, DreadDomain said:

Seen it. Loved it. The build up is long but it makes the stake feel very high. The movie is as epic as say Infinity Wars or End Game but does not benefit from the dozens of movies to set the scene. IW and EG were fun, flashy, colourful and entertaining but not a lot of characterisation. They are comic books on a big screen. The characters in JL are more fleshed out, more engaging. Every main character is fleshed out in the first half and they all significantly contribute to the victory (Cyborg and Flash even more so).

 

Having said that, I watched the movie with the acceptation that it was A Zack Snyder movie, knowing what the tone would be, what colour palette he would use but above all (at least for me) I watched it accepting the interpretrations of Aquaman and Flash did not match my vision of the characters. It's not that I do not like Momoa or Miller, they are not just the Aquaman and the Flash I expect. If I had walked in there thinking that I wanted to watch a Marvel movie, I would have been dissapointed.

 

My view is that the Snyder Cut is better than most Marvel movies.

 

The characterizations of the main players in IW and EG came in the INDIVIDUAL movies most of those characters received and their sequels. Similar to Snyder's Watchmen, he tries to pack way too much into one movie and it takes away rather than adds to the experience IMO. The only thing that watching that bloated mess demonstrated was that they absolutely should have gone the individual movie route for each character before putting JL out. Most of the added scenes felt exactly like what they were...either unnecessary filler or material that should have been in their own original origin movie. They're more fleshed out than in the original cut sure, but nowhere near the level they would have been had they gotten their proper movies first like they logically should have.

[Lord Liaden]

2 hours ago, DreadDomain said:

The movie is as epic as say Infinity Wars or End Game but does not benefit from the dozens of movies to set the scene. IW and EG were fun, flashy, colourful and entertaining but not a lot of characterisation. They are comic books on a big screen.

 

To be fair, the bulk of characterization for the Marvel heroes had been built up over ten years and twenty movies. JL didn't have that, so Snyder had no choice but to build it into his movie. But I would say that Iron Man, Captain America, Thor, Black Widow, Hulk, Gamora, had strong character arcs over the last two Avengers movies.

[Christopher R Taylor]

Quote

The only thing that watching that bloated mess demonstrated was that they absolutely should have gone the individual movie route for each character before putting JL out.

 

Sadly, I think DC felt desperate to get out their Avengers style film to compete with Marvel when that was the last move they should have made.  They needed at least one more film with Superman where he was a decent, heroic figure rather than ... well whatever Snyder wants him to be.  And they should have done at least Flash and Cyborg movies.  Aquaman was a dynamic, striking character right from the start and didn't need any special introduction.  Besides his story kinda sucks and the movie showed that. 

 

All they've managed to do with Aquaman is make a Namor film that much harder to do even though he came out first in the comics and is a much more interesting character.

 

I mean, they can still do it; Namor's personality and powers are quite different from Aquaman and they can make him more of a noble, arrogant straight man than a beer chugging sea-bro.  But its tougher now.  Just like Darkseid looks like a Thanos knockoff instead of Thanos actually being a blatant Darkseid ripoff.  DC can straighten that up pretty fast because Darkseid is so interesting and striking a character on his own, but right now if you read or watch reviews.... people think he's a Thanos clone.

 

I am really not a fan of what they did with the Flash, but his persona in Justice League is a useful and common one, and he kind of acts as the fan boy observer among these godlike figures, which is useful for viewer connection.  Having created him like that, they should have actually made a film that set him up.

 

But here's my repeated plea: stop doing origin movies. Just stop.  For Cyborg it makes sense, but for the love of all that's holy stahhp.  We don't need to know how x got his mojo.  We really don't.  Nobody asks "how did James Bond get to be a secret agent?"  He just is.  Who cares how?  Eventually if you can make it a great and interesting story, maybe a later film can be a flashback to show how they got that power set, but there's absolutely no need to always have it in every film.  Superman's origin wasn't even in his comic for a long time.  Batman we haven't ever really seen his origin beyond some glimpses and that dark night in the alley.

 

Just tell the story.  Saves a huge amount of run time not to have to have the Just So story of how they became a hero.

[Dr. MID-Nite]

Well...instead of origin movies...let's just say solo movies featuring said characters. Point being...they needed those solo films before they threw them together.