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DC Movies- if at first you don't succeed...


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2 minutes ago, Hermit said:

I enjoyed Wonder Woman 1984! not as good as the first one, but still a lot of fun. I don't understand folks tearing into it like it was Pumaman


I get the impression some people want to hate certain films and look for ways to attack them. WW84 had flaws but it was still a pretty good supers film, not a trainwreck like Suicide Squad or borderline offensive like BvS. 

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Just now, Old Man said:


I get the impression some people want to hate certain films and look for ways to attack them. WW84 had flaws but it was still a pretty good supers film, not a trainwreck like Suicide Squad or borderline offensive like BvS. 

 

What I don't get are the folks complaining that Wonder Woman tried to stop the bad guys PEACEFULLY...

It's like.. not to be a snob, but that's been a major goal of the character in many runs lasting for.. DECADES??? Nevermind the old song about turning hawks into doves.

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Hermit said:

 

What I don't get are the folks complaining that Wonder Woman tried to stop the bad guys PEACEFULLY...

It's like.. not to be a snob, but that's been a major goal of the character in many runs lasting for.. DECADES??? Nevermind the old song about turning hawks into doves.

 

 


If nothing else it shows that WW is damn hard to write. Almost a no win scenario with certain elements of “fandom”.

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4 hours ago, Spence said:

 

Really?  Really really?

 

I know I haven't been buying many comics in the last few years (decades??) because the quality (IMO) cratered in the 90's and never even tried to get back. 

 

But this is actually a thing?  I was being snarky.  If true, I am definitely not missing anything.

In the words of my man Weird Al, i going to have to edjumicate you. Ready? Okay. Let's go.

 

In certain fanfiction fandoms, there is a thing called Mpreg. This is a tag that one of the male characters will be impregnated by another male character and have to carry the baby like the movie Junior with Arnold. I don't know how popular this type of story is. I write adventure stories, not romance. At a certain point, an organization of Romance novelists (books where couples bond over their trouble with sex offscreen) sued over the use of this, and sued an online critic for her take on things. I think the lawsuit was dismissed but I am not sure.

CES           

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WW84 had some pretty fundamental story flaws and problems (not the least of which was weak bad guys and illogical events), and it didn't really feel much like 1984, so after the mostly great first one it was a pretty big letdown.  Suicide Squad was more disjointed and had character problems but was no worse than WW84 in my opinion.

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And Suicide Squad had four different editorial staffs going over it because Warner Brothers couldn't decide on the tone. If 84 was disjointed, barring the discovery of the same thing, then that's on Patty Jenkins.

CES 

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13 hours ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

WW84 had some pretty fundamental story flaws and problems (not the least of which was weak bad guys and illogical events), and it didn't really feel much like 1984, so after the mostly great first one it was a pretty big letdown.  Suicide Squad was more disjointed and had character problems but was no worse than WW84 in my opinion.

 

2 hours ago, csyphrett said:

And Suicide Squad had four different editorial staffs going over it because Warner Brothers couldn't decide on the tone. If 84 was disjointed, barring the discovery of the same thing, then that's on Patty Jenkins.

CES 

 

WW84 has a lot of people trying to blame this or that for it being bad.  But WW84 was just simply a bad movie.  The storyline and overall plot was just meh.  The individual actors were good, they were just playing meh parts in a meh storyline.  This was a Wonder Woman movie! One of the greatest superheroes in comics with a very long lineage.  The first movie was Wonder Woman written large and awesome.  And it was followed by drivel.  With all the foes WW had they chose meh.  And I have no idea why Cheetah was in this movie at all.  Wonder Woman's archenemy was meh'd into a basic Mook. 

 

I hear people babbling about "how dare people criticize Wonder Woman trying to solve the mall robbery with the least harm" or some such drivel. But ignore that it wasn't whether or not she used a high or low level of force.  It is that the scene didn't go anywhere. 

 

In a comic the writer can insert a bubble with the characters inner dialog to help move the story along.  A movie doesn't work that way.  In WW the scenes flowed and they built on each other to make a great action flick while WW84 was just a chaotic mish mash where they turned WW's nemesis into a low level henchmen of limited comedic value. 

 

What made it even worse is you could see the awesome potential of the actors straining to break free and act while being crushed by the mediocrity of the production.

 

It almost makes me wish I had never seen the first movie.  The contrast between the quality of WW and WW84 is mind boggling.

 

 

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19 hours ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

 

I said "public persona" and you quoted it in plain English.  He has crafted this (listen to voiceovers and interviews).  What he's like in private is a different matter, according to the people who work with him.

Yes, and I was referring to his public persona, as in interviews, published articles that included his responses to criticism (Spoiler Alert: he does not handle it well), and convention appearances. I've only met the man once and spoken like one sentence to him, but based on his own words and behaviors in mainstream media I've known him to be a jackass at least since 2004, more than a decade before he got Me Too-ed.

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14 hours ago, Greywind said:

Carpenter's statement was that the harassment towards her started while she was on Buffy.

 

Carpenter became pregnant during her run on Angle, and that's when things got really bad for her.

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On 5/10/2021 at 11:31 PM, Old Man said:


If nothing else it shows that WW is damn hard to write. Almost a no win scenario with certain elements of “fandom”.

 

My big problem with WW84 was the ethical dilemma of a man literally losing his life so that Steve can "live" again. Not very heroic to be honest. She doesn't question the morality of this even once in the movie. Lord's plan and motives are also executed very clumsily throughout. Wiig's Cheetah was actually a pretty good character until the tacked on "animal" transformation...which was beyond forced. The movie was way too long for the story it was telling as well. I didn't hate it, but it was nowhere near as good as the 2017 film.

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12 hours ago, Dr. MID-Nite said:

a man literally losing his life so that Steve can "live" again.

 

Well, almost. I suspect they were going for a Heaven Can Wait scenario, but in that movie Joe Pendleton was only given the bodies of men who were about to die (with their souls leaving for their final destinations) to choose from, eliminating the awkward moral dilemma presented in WW84. I feel that Shazam! had an analogous problem in that it was very clearly trying to riff of of Big, but that movie was like a modern fairy tale, whereas Shazam! wanted to be a superhero movie, and the two story styles just didn't mix right, IMO.

 

I feel that screenwriters need to stop cribbing from past movies, especially if they don't understand (or don't care about) what made those movies work, and work harder to come up with fresh new ideas instead.

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What's worst about the "bring Steve to life again" thing is that the relationship really didn't feel like it worked the first time -- they basically seemed like good friends who might have a growing attraction, not the world's deepest love affair.  The entire thing was a contrivance to make it seem like Wonder Woman had as much to give up as everyone else did because her ONE TRUE LOVE would die, so her sacrifice was as great!

 

Except it wasn't really, since the bond didn't ever seem that significant, and I mean, people wished dead relatives back to life and cured diseases etc.  Not exactly the same thing at all.

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The impression I got was just the opposite, to be honest. Throughout the first WW movie I could see and feel the building relationship between Steve and Diana, their mutual understanding, trust, admiration, their shared joy and grief, through intense moments and quiet ones. It's also worth remembering that experiences are heightened in war. You go through a lot of living in a short time, and people who share that experience quickly form a bond of literal life and death.

 

When Diana and Steve made love I absolutely believed their relationship had led to it, and when Steve died I completely bought Diana's grief.

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I guess my problem was I made the mistake of watching WW immediately before watching WW84.  The quality of the two was so far apart that nothing in WW84 made a favorable impression.  In the end it was a thoroughly forgettable movie that I usually only remember as being meh.

 

 

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Quote

Throughout the first WW movie I could see and feel the building relationship between Steve and Diana, their mutual understanding, trust, admiration, their shared joy and grief, through intense moments and quiet ones.

 

Well, they did have those weeks in an open boat with no provisions sailing from Greece to England

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7 minutes ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

 

Well, they did have those weeks in an open boat with no provisions sailing from Greece to England

And she had read all those books :shock:

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