DC Movies- if at first you don't succeed...

[Christopher R Taylor]

A: As opposed to what?

 

I’ve found this to be a useful response, because many people will hesitate before saying “white” or “straight.” That hesitation comes from the realization, however subconscious, that they have defaulted all characters to white and straight, and are thereby declaring this normal, while everything else is other. From here, if they choose to acknowledge their internalized (unintentional but still harmful) supremacy rather than going on the defensive, they will begin to understand the real value of representation.

 

No. the answer is "what they are in the original source material that sold millions of copies over decades."  That's not some kind of crypto racist supremacy, and your calumny is not only noted but disgusting.

[Ragitsu]

Speaking of which...Idris Elba looks to be the popular choice among those in charge of casting Roland Deschain's actor for the upcoming "The Dark Tower" live-action adaptation.

 

To say that this is ruffling feathers is a major understatement.

[Pattern Ghost]

IMO, just make new characters or make more use of existing ones if you want to add diversity, with two exceptions:

 

1. Establishing a new continuity, such as a cinematic or TV universe. You won't have zillions of characters to draw on, so making an established character a different shade of human is fine. Just hire a good actor for the job and tell a good story.

2. If you have a really good story to go with it.

[Pattern Ghost]

Speaking of which...Idris Elba looks to be the popular choice among those in charge of casting of Roland Deschain for the upcoming "The Dark Tower" live-action adaptation.

 

To say that this is ruffling feathers is a major understatement.

 

Elba's a good actor. I haven't read the source material, but I thought it was a post-apocalyptic setting, so race shouldn't really be an issue. Unless there's a good reason that the character can't be black (certain historical settings, for instance), picking a good actor for the role should be the priority.

[slikmar]

I'm upset that she's an older detective for the NYPD. Her ethnicity is much more incidental to her personality.

My first thought upon reading the link was, why couldn't she have gone to WB, which, with their penchant for young angst shows, seems like it would have been perfect for her.

[Pattern Ghost]

They already did a great Nancy Drew series. It was called Veronica Mars.

[Ragitsu]

Elba's a good actor. I haven't read the source material, but I thought it was a post-apocalyptic setting, so race shouldn't really be an issue. Unless there's a good reason that the character can't be black (certain historical settings, for instance), picking a good actor for the role should be the priority.

 

Over the span of the seven or so novels King put out, Roland's skin color was incidental to his character beyond a few moments of inter-party friction in the second and perhaps third book(s).

 

Keep in mind that he hails from a world where the customs are different from our own and where the kind of racism we (as United States citizens) experienced pretty much never occurred.

 

He is constantly described as having icy cold blue eyes..."bombardier" eyes, to be specific. I see no reason why Elba can't wear contacts. If anything, such an alteration will help to make him look otherworldly (blue eyes in those of direct African descent are possible, but exceedingly exotic).

[slikmar]

Elba's a good actor. I haven't read the source material, but I thought it was a post-apocalyptic setting, so race shouldn't really be an issue. Unless there's a good reason that the character can't be black (certain historical settings, for instance), picking a good actor for the role should be the priority.

A good reason for not being black, no. But the character as written, at least to me, came across very much an American Cowboy whom I always thought of as very Clint Eastwood or Sam Elliott. Back isn't a problem, but a cowboy is. I think Elba is a great actor, so maybe he can pull it off.

[Starlord]

Perhaps the ultimate say-so should come from Stephen King himself.  If he likes Idris Elba for the role, that's who it should be.  J.K. Rowling recently approved of Hermione being black in the new Harry Potter play.

[Ragitsu]

A good reason for not being black, no. But the character as written, at least to me, came across very much an American Cowboy whom I always thought of as very Clint Eastwood or Sam Elliott. Back isn't a problem, but a cowboy is. I think Elba is a great actor, so maybe he can pull it off.

 

Black cowboys were a thing. 'Sides which, the guy is more of a cowboy-knight-samurai hybrid .

[Ragitsu]

Perhaps the ultimate say-so should come from Stephen King himself.  If he likes Idris Elba for the role, that's who it should be.  J.K. Rowling recently approved of Hermione being black in the new Harry Potter play.

 

He seems to be fine with it.

[Vondy]

I find it interesting that some of the referenced movies are considered "epic failures."

 

DD had a budget of $78 million and an international box office of $179 million.

 

That doesn't include DVDs and other profit channels.

 

Man of Steel had a budget of $225 million and an international box office of $668 million.

 

Again, that doesn't include DVD and other profit channels.

 

Individual viewers, especially pollyanna fanboys, may regard these films as critical failures, but objectively?

 

They were solid commercial successes. 

 

So, how are we defining "epic failure?" In a fan-wank, anemic critical aesthete, or auteur's snoot terms?

 

Or as entertainment products?

 

Because, if its the latter, to quote Mickey Spillaine, "If it sells, its good."

 

If making 300% profit on a $225 million dollar investment is failure, count me in.

[Ragitsu]

By that logic, McDonalds is churning out five-star grub.

[Pattern Ghost]

If making 300% profit on a $225 million dollar investment is failure, count me in.

 

A profitable turd is still a turd.

 

Definitions for "turd" will vary, and are largely subjective, of course. 

 

We also tend to view the source material with highly-tinted rose-colored glasses, only remembering the parts we like. The source material has been just as bad as any movie, depending on what run you're looking at. It'd actually be hard for a movie to surpass the very worse print runs, IMO.

[Starlord]

In the last 35 years, I'd pick 3 movies as excellent/brilliant comic book films - Superman, The Dark Knight, and Captain America:  Winter Soldier.

 

In that time, the number of movies that were really bad/awful was much greater - Superman 3-4, Batman and Robin, Blade 3, Catwoman, all 3 FF movies, The Spirit, Jonah Hex, Spawn, Ghost Rider 2, Elektra, Steel, Supergirl, Howard the Duck, Barb Wire, Hulk, The 2nd Spider-Man 2, 2nd Punisher, the 1st Judge Dredd, Green Hornet and I'm probably forgetting a few more.

 

There is a part of me that could agree that alot of Superhero movies are bad.

 

PS:  Box office sales could be used as one factor in determining a movie's brilliance, but it should not be used as the sole factor.  Note that the top two grossing films of all time (not adjusted for inflation) are Avatar and Titanic.  Both decidedly average films in my estimation.  Avatar was a brilliant technical achievement with an underwhelming story and unoriginal and formulaic plot.  Titanic, while better than I thought it would be, was still a pandering standard teen romance story told a 100 times before.

[Ragitsu]

No love/hate for Watchmen?

[Clonus]

A good reason for not being black, no. But the character as written, at least to me, came across very much an American Cowboy whom I always thought of as very Clint Eastwood or Sam Elliott. Back isn't a problem, but a cowboy is. I think Elba is a great actor, so maybe he can pull it off.

 

There were lots of black cowboys in the real American West.  

 

 

By that logic, McDonalds is churning out five-star grub.

 

 

McDonalds business model is based on being a lot less expensive and time consuming than 5 star grub.  It's not a model that applies to theater movies.  You can't charge less for a low end movie, cycle your viewers through faster and make up the difference in volume.  

[Enforcer84]

Holy crap this argument again? 

[Ragitsu]

Holy crap this argument again? 

 

I can't tell if you're genuinely surprised or are posting to fulfill the mandatory "This again?" comment quota for threads of this type.

[Starlord]

No love/hate for Watchmen?

 

I'm probably one of the rare few that liked the movie better than the comic.  

 

- I felt the more concise nature of the movie slightly lightened the tone of the overtly bleak comic (in the end, I lean more four-color than dystopian in my superhero preferences)

 

- I hated Dave Gibbons art...when the art is really bad (IMO) in a comic it can really have an effect on even the best stories.

[Badger]

It's almost as if these film studios are heavyweight boxers fixing to pummel your childhood (or newer!) memories like a red-headed stepchild stuffed into a punching bag.

 

Well, there is a reason I haven't gone to the theaters since the 20th century.   (There have been movies I liked, but, none I felt I had to go out and deal with the mess that I would have to deal with in theaters from people).

 

Note: 3 of the last 4 movies I did go see in a theater I had to deal with incessant talking from those around me, and general irritance.  That combined with the fact that I am slightly a clean freak, and the local theater doesn't clean ever.  (pretty sure, the stickiness from that drink I spilled when I wet to see Transformers: The ANimated Movie as a kid is still there).  And I realized, movie going had become a complete miserable experience.

[Badger]

RANT warning:   I have had a really crappy day, and this is coloring everything.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Comic writers seem to be doing it too.   There is a part of me (not one I like, but still)   That wants most, if not all of the PC re-imaginings of Comic characters to crash and Burn.   The "Has to be a Minority' Nancy Drew also. 

 

Make NEW characters people!   Killing one just so you can replace them with a minority...      I am really perplexed by the idea of a Female Thor...   Have not read it, but heard an interiew with the author.    I have NO understanding of the logic/storyline that changes the fundamental nature of a mythological Character like that.   I HOPE there is a reason besides just "I wanted to do it. 

 

 

Yeah, generally, I like one superhero= 1 secret ID.  I don't like one leaving, and someone taking on "the mantle".  Not that it cant be done, but as a general rule. 

 

THough while I don't generally care about using minorities or not.   I have to make an exception on THor.  The Norse god of thunder has to be a dude.   You've got plenty of goddesses you can use, if you want a female character.

[Enforcer84]

It's not even like it's new. They did it in the Earth X series. 

http://www.tgfa.org/comics/thor/thor.htm

 

Has to be a dude? He's been a frog. 

[Badger]

Black cowboys were a thing. 'Sides which, the guy is more of a cowboy-knight-samurai hybrid .

 

Yeah,  I actually heard something like 1 in 3 were.

 

Besides which, if you want badass historical Western figures you practically have to start with one, Bass Reeves.   I mean holy ####.

[Badger]

A profitable turd is still a turd.

 

Definitions for "turd" will vary, and are largely subjective, of course. 

 

We also tend to view the source material with highly-tinted rose-colored glasses, only remembering the parts we like. The source material has been just as bad as any movie, depending on what run you're looking at. It'd actually be hard for a movie to surpass the very worse print runs, IMO.

 

 

Sadly, some names if you put on a title you'll get good turnout.  I am convinced if you put Star Wars in front of "Plan 9 From Outer Space", you can make a billion.