Iuz the Evil Posted April 6, 2017 Report Share Posted April 6, 2017 Who is this Weadon person you speak of? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Posted April 6, 2017 Report Share Posted April 6, 2017 I liked how the very first one worked; in Simonson's Cask of Winters storyline, it was suddenly winter in the middle of the summer everywhere. You got an issue of confused Spider-Man in the snow, etc, and that was pretty much it. I think the Fantastic Four fought some dark elves and wild hunt. That's all they did; it wasn't about sales and interconnected "gotta catch 'em all" multiple book tales. It was just an event that impacted the whole setting. Its all crass sales now, a way to push people to buy other comics. The other thing that Marvel has been doing lately is pushing story arcs across multiple titles on a weekly basis. So if you wanted to know what the hell was going on, you needed to pick up Extraordinary X-Men, then X-Men Blue the next week, then All-New X-Men, then Uncanny X-Men, and then like Spider-Woman just to make sure you couldn't keep up. DasBroot and bigdamnhero 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Posted April 6, 2017 Report Share Posted April 6, 2017 Incidentally I had to google for the X-Men titles above because I had no flippin' clue what X-Men titles are out there currently. According to Wikipedia there are no Marvel series that have been running since before 2015. I still don't know what characters are actually in the titles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazza Posted April 6, 2017 Report Share Posted April 6, 2017 Who is this Weadon person you speak of? Joss a minute... Exclusive: Joss Whedon and Kevin Feige Explain Origin Of ‘The Avengers’ Post Script http://comicbook.com/marvel/2017/04/01/how-that-epic-avengers-post-credits-scene-happened-according-to-/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DasBroot Posted April 7, 2017 Report Share Posted April 7, 2017 The other thing that Marvel has been doing lately is pushing story arcs across multiple titles on a weekly basis. So if you wanted to know what the hell was going on, you needed to pick up Extraordinary X-Men, then X-Men Blue the next week, then All-New X-Men, then Uncanny X-Men, and then like Spider-Woman just to make sure you couldn't keep up. This is exactly my issue with the BACE. "X-Cutioner's Song" was when I tuned out - and it was just limited to all the X books at the time. Don't progress the story through side titles - keep them optional. Have the characters react to the situation at hand, like the mentioned Cask of Winter. I know some crossovers still succeed at this - I didn't feel like I missed anything when I bought the World War Hulk trade, even though reading the synopsis at Wikipedia I know things were done in the crossover issues - they just didn't matter in the long run (one team fought the Brood, someone else fought at couple of the Warborn, etc). That's doing it right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt the Bruins Posted April 7, 2017 Report Share Posted April 7, 2017 DC didn't have to copy Marvel's approach of giving each signature character his/her own movie before putting them together in the team movie, and I'm not convinced that any of the DCEU movies would have been any better off had they done so. As I see it, the core problem isn't a lack of architectural patience, but that DC is creatively misguided (in terms of tone and characterization), and that infects everything they've done so far. Maybe Wonder Woman will be the turning point, but my sneaking suspicion is that Justice League will return to the same joyless, grimdark mode of storytelling as the other films, and the WW film will be the lone beacon of light in the DCEU. I suspect, based on the Suicide Squad reshoots and some executives' seeming awareness of people complaining about grimdark, that the typical Zack Snyder murderfests will include tacked-on, juvenile attempts at sarcastic one-liners which will land like lead balloons, Two Broke Girls-style. ...(since when was Iron Man a wisecracking smartass?) Since at least the late 70s when I stated reading Avengers and Iron Man comics? Christopher R Taylor 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywind Posted April 7, 2017 Report Share Posted April 7, 2017 Since at least the late 70s when I stated reading Avengers and Iron Man comics? Yep. RDj pretty much nailed classic Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starlord Posted April 7, 2017 Report Share Posted April 7, 2017 The Marvel Way means generally making fun, enjoyable, good quality movies. The DC Way means to generally make questionable quality movies. That's all I really need to know. Hmmm. Sort of the same opinion I held of the comic books during the '80's. I dunno...the Teen Titans during the '80s were awesome. aylwin13 and Hermit 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermit Posted April 7, 2017 Report Share Posted April 7, 2017 Loved the Blue Devil Run short lived though it was. pinecone 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermit Posted April 8, 2017 Report Share Posted April 8, 2017 And it did have perhaps my favorite incarnation of the Justice League evah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iuz the Evil Posted April 8, 2017 Report Share Posted April 8, 2017 80s DC has some of my favorite comics ever. Teen Titans as mentioned, and the "bwahaha" League, but also Man of Steel. Some really good runs in the late 80s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Shadow Posted April 8, 2017 Report Share Posted April 8, 2017 Yep. RDj pretty much nailed classic Tony. No, he didn't. He nailed Ultimate Tony. Classic Tony, although he did have a sense of humor, took things much more seriously, especially with regard to his teamates. Although he was occasionally a wiseass to his opponents. Nor was he ever a wild ass warrior who jumped into a fight without an idea of what was going on and a plan for how he was going to deal with it. The plan frequently had to be altered as the situation became more clear, but he always had one and it wasn't "I'll just blast it". What's more he figured all that out himself, he didn't just tell the A.I. to do it for him. Lastly he was not so damned arrogant. That's an Ultimate Tony trait. Classic Tony was confident. There's a big difference between the two. This is not to say RDJ's Tony is not entertaining. He was very entertaining ... in the first movie. By his third he was just annoying. Mainly because for a smart guy he seems completely unable to learn from his mistakes and unwilling to listen to the friends that are trying to help him. By Civil War I was actually hoping that Downey would announce he was done with the role. Even if it meant no Iron Man for years or even ever again. For me to feel that way is saying something. Lord Liaden and Hugh Neilson 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted April 8, 2017 Report Share Posted April 8, 2017 Yep. RDj pretty much nailed classic Tony. I recall Classic Hawkeye being the wisecracker, not Classic Tony. I do recall Tony being quite the master planner. Such as, after SHIELD acquired controlling interest in Stark International, he pointed out that SI did not own his patents, and he would now be taking his accumulated vacation time, having not taken any significant time off for many years. But not the wisecracker. I came back to say "maybe that's just my selective recall", but Doc Shadow and I seem to have read the same Tony. And you're right - he's much more Ultimate Tony, which is, in my view, why Ultimate (and MCU) Hawkeye are not wisecrackers. That niche was already taken. Doc Shadow and Christopher R Taylor 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher R Taylor Posted April 8, 2017 Report Share Posted April 8, 2017 This is not to say RDJ's Tony is not entertaining. He was very entertaining ... in the first movie. By his third he was just annoying. Mainly because for a smart guy he seems completely unable to learn from his mistakes and unwilling to listen to the friends that are trying to help him. By Civil War I was actually hoping that Downey would announce he was done with the role. Even if it meant no Iron Man for years or even ever again. For me to feel that way is saying something. I blame the writing more than him. They were trying to give him a role to play, something challenging, a character arc etc, but for me at least they made him obnoxious, pathetic, and unheroic. The problem is with Tony... Cap is right. He's not heroic, everything he does is not to help others, but out of a reaction to how it affects him and his company. He's fun and interesting but just a guy in a suit, except for race occasions (like restarting the engine of the helicarrier). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zslane Posted April 8, 2017 Report Share Posted April 8, 2017 Didn't Tony also sacrifice himself to close the wormhole in the final act of The Avengers? Didn't he stop selling weapons to the world once he realized how they were being used to hurt innocent people? Didn't he start an educational foundation for those interested in pursuing science and engineering? Didn't he become obsessed with building any technology he could think of to protect the Earth from future alien invasions? Is it possible we're unfairly discounting the things he's done in the interests of others? bigdamnhero, Lord Liaden, Bazza and 4 others 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slikmar Posted April 8, 2017 Report Share Posted April 8, 2017 I always read it as Tony being to arrogant and thinking he is smarter then everyone else (which may be true in some ways). He uses this combined with the PTSD from dieing to make global decisions that effect his friend/teammates. This was the primary problem he had in Avengers 2 and Civil War. He doesn't listen to warnings (I think a result of said PTSD and his arrogance). Banner tried to warn him about using an AI they hadn't tested. Cap and some of the others tried to warn him about giving the power of the members of the Avengers to a political group, even if it is the UN. None of this penetrated to him. Doc Shadow 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdamnhero Posted April 8, 2017 Report Share Posted April 8, 2017 Exactly. I think Tony's character progression in the MCU has been fantastic to watch. He always tries to do the right thing, but as Natasha points out he just can't put his ego aside long enough to seriously consider others' points of view. There was an old FF comics where Reed asks Ben if Ben thinks he (Reed) is arrogant. Ben's reply is something like: No, but you're the most certain guy I've ever met. You're really smart, you think a problem through carefully and consider all the angles, but once you decide on an answer the possibility that you might be wrong never enters your mind. And you're right often enough that you can usually get away with that, but on the occasions when you are wrong it completely blindsides you, even if it's obvious to everyone else. That's MCU Stark in a nutshell. Hugh Neilson, Twilight, slikmar and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazza Posted April 8, 2017 Report Share Posted April 8, 2017 Is it possible we're unfairly discounting the things he's done in the interests of others? Yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt the Bruins Posted April 9, 2017 Report Share Posted April 9, 2017 Lastly he was not so damned arrogant. That's an Ultimate Tony trait. Classic Tony was confident. There's a big difference between the two. I distinctly recall Tony telling the Avengers who first fought Count Nefaria to sit the next one out and let him handle it by himself. He assumed he would do better than Cap, Black Panther, Wonder Man, Beast, Yellowjacket, and the Scarlet Witch together when it came to a rematch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iuz the Evil Posted April 9, 2017 Report Share Posted April 9, 2017 I distinctly recall Tony telling the Avengers who first fought Count Nefaria to sit the next one out and let him handle it by himself. He assumed he would do better than Cap, Black Panther, Wonder Man, Beast, Yellowjacket, and the Scarlet Witch together when it came to a rematch.How did that work out for him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted April 9, 2017 Report Share Posted April 9, 2017 After Tony pointed out "You've all been through the wringer", Cap pointed out he'd "been through wringers since before you were in cast-iron short pants" and Wanda told him the Avengers "will follow you through Hell", but he had to lead them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iuz the Evil Posted April 10, 2017 Report Share Posted April 10, 2017 So the rest of the team rolled their collective eyes and prevented him from committing suicide by Nefaria? Probably best for everyone involved, really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywind Posted April 10, 2017 Report Share Posted April 10, 2017 Nefaria ended up being one-shot by Vision as I recall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Shadow Posted April 10, 2017 Report Share Posted April 10, 2017 Actually Tony faced Nefaria alone in his own title and beat him. Don't remember the specifics though. It was around issue 105 - 117. He has also beaten the Hulk, although he had to trash his armor to do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iuz the Evil Posted April 10, 2017 Report Share Posted April 10, 2017 Actually Tony faced Nefaria alone in his own title and beat him. Don't remember the specifics though. It was around issue 105 - 117. He has also beaten the Hulk, although he had to trash his armor to do it. And Squirrel Girl beat Thanos. Christopher R Taylor 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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