Enforcer84 Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 Freya's name is quite pronounceable, she's the most famous and important goddess in Norse mythology (excluding Hel who is famous for all the wrong reasons), and while her spheres of gold and beauty don't give a lot to work with, she's also goddess of war and (non-evil) death, the only war goddess the Norse have, and the mistress of the Valkyries. Specific mythical details like her cloak of flight, ability to control cats, and power of precognition would help to make her non-generic in a way that Sif isn't. She'd also probably have light powers seeing as how she's Frey's twin sister. If any Norse goddess was going to be a model for a lead superhero, Freya's the only option I can see (except for Valkyries in general, and they've already done that). She's still not in Thor's class as a marketable property of course. Your opinion has been noted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vondy Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 Freya's name is quite pronounceable, she's the most famous and important goddess in Norse mythology (excluding Hel who is famous for all the wrong reasons), and while her spheres of gold and beauty don't give a lot to work with, she's also goddess of war and (non-evil) death, the only war goddess the Norse have, and the mistress of the Valkyries. Specific mythical details like her cloak of flight, ability to control cats, and power of precognition would help to make her non-generic in a way that Sif isn't. She'd also probably have light powers seeing as how she's Frey's twin sister. If any Norse goddess was going to be a model for a lead superhero, Freya's the only option I can see (except for Valkyries in general, and they've already done that). She's still not in Thor's class as a marketable property of course. To gild the lily, in older versions of the myth she isn't referred to as Queen of the Valkyries, but The Valkyrie. Singular. The genuine article. Also, while everyone has heard of Valhalla, she has her own hall (Sessrumnir) in her own realm (Folkvangr). And, she received the first pick (and half) of the slain. Odin got the other half, who went to Valhalla. There are also references to the warriors she chose having their wives and children join them in the afterlife, while in Valhalla, it seems to have been primarily single warriors with no such families or, at least, no such perk. The only problem is that she is too complex a goddess to easily pigeon-hole into an easy movie archetype. Yes, she could serve as an action girl in spades, but how to do her broader character justice without diluting the story would be quite a feat. And, that latter point is why (IMO) she's not as marketable as Thor. In the myths, Thor is a relatively simplistic archetype and none too sophisticated an individual. He is representative of the simplistic ceorl's honest strength and courage. He's a warrior god of thunder and that is, pretty much, it. Freya is depicted as being a warrior goddess, a fertility goddess, a goddess of love and desire, a goddess of magic, a goddess of prophecy, the chooser of the slain... and a few other things. Her archetype is much more broadly defined and variegated than Thor's. It makes it hard to distill her into a modern narrative structure (which the eddas and sagas don't match). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starlord Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 Your opinion has been noted. Your note has been noted. Enforcer84 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starlord Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 Freya worshippers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vondy Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 Freya worshippers. Just to be a myth geek... While modern readers typically treat the Norse pantheon as a codified and organized mythic structure and pantheon, that was really the result of a mostly post-pagan written record. Different gods had different precedence among different tribes and countries. Some didn't appear at all in some regions. People talk about odinism / wodenism, which was very widespread, but it wasn't universally the dominant mode faith in all places. Indeed, in Sweden, the cult of the twins, Freyr and Freya, was the dominant cult. Odin, while important, was a johnny come lately and something of an interloper. So much so that, when Swedish Christians in the 14th and 15th century expressed concern about competition from paganism in their writing, Odin and Thor et al aren't noted. Yet, the cults of Freyr and Freya were still prominent enough in private, household worship that they were called out as cause for concern. I have wondered, in the past, whether the war of the Vanir and Aesir, which was settled by marriage, is really a reflection of ancient tribal warfare and blending - not just in blood, but in cult and belief. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enforcer84 Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 Your note has been noted. Take note. For I am notable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vondy Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 I've come to realize that many people conflate "I don't like it" with "It's no good." This is true well beyond the sphere of entertainment... Pariah 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vondy Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 Take note. For I am notable. Foot-notable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enforcer84 Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 This is true well beyond the sphere of entertainment... It's how I live my life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enforcer84 Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 Foot-notable. And Quotable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starlord Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 Just to be a myth geek... The words Myth geek made me think of Skeeve and Aahz. BarretWallace 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cassandra Posted January 22, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 Not for nothing, but I killed off all my Asgard Gods in my universe in Ragnarok. They fought a huge war with the Titans and the Egyptian Gods and wiped each other out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cassandra Posted January 22, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 Batman The Animated Series pretty much started the Superhero revival of the 1990s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starlord Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 This is true well beyond the sphere of entertainment... I never venture beyond the sphere of entertainment...the master says the radiation levels are too high. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enforcer84 Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 And let's face it, Marvel's use of the Gods plays fast and loose with the mythologies anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zslane Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 Whenever an established character is changed in some significant way (race, sex, age, personality, etc.), I like to ask why the character was changed. More often than not my objection to the change is really with the motivation behind it, rather than with the change itself. For example, if the reason for a change is merely because someone thought it would be "cool," then me getting on board is entirely dependent on whether I agree it is a "cool" idea or not. I've learned that what I think is cool and what some line editor half my age thinks is cool are usually two very different things. That's why so many changes I hear about in the comics simply make me roll my eyes. As for diversity, look at Nick Fury. He went from being a middle-aged white guy to a middle-aged black guy, and hardly anyone flinched. Could the Punisher be black? If not, why not? Could Power Man be latino? Could Black Panther be an asian woman? Would we have to rename her Golden Tigress? Black Canary was never of African descent, so clearly the name need not be a signifier of race if they don't want it to be. If there is nothing sacred about a character's original conception, then presumably all characters' ethnicities, genders, ages, etc. are up for grabs. Where does the quest for equal opportunity end? Or does it? Lord Liaden 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starlord Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 Not for nothing, but I killed off all my Asgard Gods in my universe in Ragnarok. Ragnaroks tend to do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywind Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 To gild the lily, in older versions of the myth she isn't referred to as Queen of the Valkyries, but The Valkyrie. Singular. The genuine article. Also, while everyone has heard of Valhalla, she has her own hall (Sessrumnir) in her own realm (Folkvangr). And, she received the first pick (and half) of the slain. Odin got the other half, who went to Valhalla. There are also references to the warriors she chose having their wives and children join them in the afterlife, while in Valhalla, it seems to have been primarily single warriors with no such families or, at least, no such perk. The only problem is that she is too complex a goddess to easily pigeon-hole into an easy movie archetype. Yes, she could serve as an action girl in spades, but how to do her broader character justice without diluting the story would be quite a feat. And, that latter point is why (IMO) she's not as marketable as Thor. In the myths, Thor is a relatively simplistic archetype and none too sophisticated an individual. He is representative of the simplistic ceorl's honest strength and courage. He's a warrior god of thunder and that is, pretty much, it. Freya is depicted as being a warrior goddess, a fertility goddess, a goddess of love and desire, a goddess of magic, a goddess of prophecy, the chooser of the slain... and a few other things. Her archetype is much more broadly defined and variegated than Thor's. It makes it hard to distill her into a modern narrative structure (which the eddas and sagas don't match). Freya is also the goddess of prostitutes and dwarf boinking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vondy Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 Freya is also the goddess of prostitutes and dwarf boinking. Which is an entirely different genre of film for her to headline in... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clonus Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 And let's face it, Marvel's use of the Gods plays fast and loose with the mythologies anyway. It does. Certainly characters can be modified for use. Skadi can lose the skis. Freya can lose the pig. Sif went from "Thor's wife" to Thor's ex-girlfriend. But "unpronounceable name" and "nobody has even heard of this goddess" are deal killers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 I'm not sure many people would have heard of Thor and Odin were it not for Marvel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enforcer84 Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 It does. Certainly characters can be modified for use. Skadi can lose the skis. Freya can lose the pig. Sif went from "Thor's wife" to Thor's ex-girlfriend. But "unpronounceable name" and "nobody has even heard of this goddess" are deal killers. For whom? You're projecting an awful lot. I am probably as well. Sif has been around Marvel since the 60's. As have Amora the Enchantress, and Lorelai (ok maybe 80's for Lorelai) so making the goddesses whole cloth is no problem. Sigyn has been around (Loki's long suffering wife) since 1978. Frigga has been in the Marvel Universe for decades as well. I guess I'm not seeing your point. I don't care that Thor's a woman, it's happened before in Earth X. As has Mortal, Frog, Unable to Heal, Mortal again, Dead, dressed in drag to fool a giant...(wait that's not Marvel)...but Thor isn't the only Asgardian Marvel has used. He is their flagship so naturally their first choice because editors are weak ineffectual creatures bound to marketing and lawyers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vondy Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 I'm not sure many people would have heard of Thor and Odin were it not for Marvel. I first learned of them in Edith Hamilton's Mythology. But, then, I was a weird ten year old. Of course, the next "source" for Norse Myths that I read was Deities & Demigods. Which included bare-midriff snow-bunny Freya... Starlord, Nolgroth, gewing and 2 others 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starlord Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 Oh my, the original Deities and Demigods with the Melnibonean and Cthulhu mythos, as well as the awesome Jeff Dee illos...sigh...those were the days.... Pariah 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clonus Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 I'm not sure many people would have heard of Thor and Odin were it not for Marvel. I am 100% sure that there are many people who have enough familiarity with Norse mythology to have heard of Thor, Odin and Loki and would even if comic book Thor had never existed. Norse mythology is not quite as big as Greek mythology in the popular mind but it is still plenty big. It's nowhere near Summanus or Cloacina territory. For whom? For any editor listening to a "Let's let a Norse goddess headline for a while" pitch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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