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DC Movies- if at first you don't succeed...


Cassandra

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Marvel only gets close to the comic versions of costumes if the character was originally covered in technology. If they wore colorful spandex, then chances are they won't have anything like that in the MCU. Spider-Man, Vision and Avengers-1 Cap are about the only cases where they got real close to the spandex look. Even the Asgardian costumes, while nicely designed, don't look much like their comic versions, IMO; rather, they more look like something out of Peter Jackson's LotR movies. I am, however, impressed with just how much MCU Dr. Strange looks like his comics counterpart.

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  • 4 weeks later...

I agree that a gee-whiz take on Billy is a good idea, but if they are going with the overall tone and direction of Big then I'll pass. At this point, I am already disappointed with the costume (all that metal--or what is supposed to look like metal!) and the actor playing Capt. Marvel. I would have preferred strictly fabrics in the costume design, and someone large and imposing, like Alex Ross's conception of the big red cheese, not someone that you have to put next to smaller actors to fake it.

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Zachary Levi is listed as 6' 3", which is tall for Hollywood. And that's a pretty good height for a superhero I guess, but for some reason he looks like he's wearing a cosplay outfit with fake muscles, and I'm not sure why. Something just looks off.

 

(Update: it's been confirmed--by David Sandberg I think?--that the costume is padded with a bit of fake musculature, so there you go.)

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On 6/14/2018 at 7:10 PM, zslane said:

Marvel only gets close to the comic versions of costumes if the character was originally covered in technology. If they wore colorful spandex, then chances are they won't have anything like that in the MCU. Spider-Man, Vision and Avengers-1 Cap are about the only cases where they got real close to the spandex look. Even the Asgardian costumes, while nicely designed, don't look much like their comic versions, IMO; rather, they more look like something out of Peter Jackson's LotR movies. I am, however, impressed with just how much MCU Dr. Strange looks like his comics counterpart.

 

Dr. Strange's costume has (for most of his career) been among the least spandex-y of any comic-book superhero's. IMO the spandex look for Captain America in the first Avengers movie -- which was one of the film's more criticized elements -- is evidence that what works in comic books doesn't necessarily work in live action.

 

I'm fine with the liberties Marvel has taken with the outfits for most of their superheroes. For the most part they deal with the above-mentioned reality while preserving the essence of their characters' iconic visuals. Again IMO, of course. ;) I think the new Shazam suit is more clearly based on the classic original than almost any super-suit of this millennium. I do find the fake muscles distracting, though. Levi worked hard to bulk up -- he doesn't need them.

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On 3/13/2018 at 12:20 PM, Pattern Ghost said:

I'm going to go with fake. It doesn't look like the suit rises to the level of the old Flash TV series suit, but it's clearly padded out to bulk him up. He's definitely bulked up a lot for the role, but I think not quite that much. 

 

2 hours ago, zslane said:

(Update: it's been confirmed--by David Sandberg I think?--that the costume is padded with a bit of fake musculature, so there you go.) 

 

I just wanted to take a moment and say:

 

Neener neener neener, I told you* so. :P

 

Overall, I don't hate the costume, just parts of it. Going for the classic aesthetic is nice to see. (I freaking hate the new hoodie cape look for the character.) The gold foil looking crap needs to go, though. You can barely make out the lightning bolt shape because of the gold foil stuff around it. The boots are atrocious. The textured material of the base layer combined with all the metallic accessories makes it look like it's a high tech suit and not at all inline with the mystic origins of the character IMO.

 

The fake muscles weren't needed after Levi's bulk up, IMO. The original character art was never that damned muscular, they used to actually draw comics characters to look like normal, non-steroid popping strongmen, and Levi definitely has the build for it. That said, they kept it to a somewhat tolerable level.

 

I agree that's Freddy hanging out with him in the pic. His facial expression has enough gee-whiz about it that I think it fits the tone. If this is a still from a scene being shot, then the tone seems spot on for a Captain Marvel movie, so I'm hopeful on that front. I'm a fan of Zachary Levi, too, so I'll see it. I remain cautiously optimistic, but this one's going to be streamed or Red Boxed rather than a theater visit for me.

 

 

*Not directed at zslane, who I quoted, just whoever had the temerity to disagree with me earlier. :D

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1 hour ago, Lord Liaden said:

 

IMO the spandex look for Captain America in the first Avengers movie -- which was one of the film's more criticized elements -- is evidence that what works in comic books doesn't necessarily work in live action.

 

Well, see that's where I feel the evidence is stretched to draw the wrong conclusion. To my mind, the failure of Cap's look in the first Avengers movie was not at all evidence that "what works in comic books doesn't necessarily work in live action." The decisive counter-argument to that is Spider-Man's MCU costume. No, the failure of Cap's look in The Avengers was evidence of nothing more than the fact that that particular costume design just didn't capture the classic look in quite the right way (for a film camera). Spider-Man's costume is all the proof I need that it is entirely possible to do Cap's classic spandex look for live action, if done properly.

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1 hour ago, Pattern Ghost said:

 

 

I just wanted to take a moment and say:

 

Neener neener neener, I told you* so. :P

 

Overall, I don't hate the costume, just parts of it. Going for the classic aesthetic is nice to see. (I freaking hate the new hoodie cape look for the character.) The gold foil looking crap needs to go, though. You can barely make out the lightning bolt shape because of the gold foil stuff around it. The boots are atrocious. The textured material of the base layer combined with all the metallic accessories makes it look like it's a high tech suit and not at all inline with the mystic origins of the character IMO.

 

The fake muscles weren't needed after Levi's bulk up, IMO. The original character art was never that damned muscular, they used to actually draw comics characters to look like normal, non-steroid popping strongmen, and Levi definitely has the build for it. That said, they kept it to a somewhat tolerable level.

 

I agree that's Freddy hanging out with him in the pic. His facial expression has enough gee-whiz about it that I think it fits the tone. If this is a still from a scene being shot, then the tone seems spot on for a Captain Marvel movie, so I'm hopeful on that front. I'm a fan of Zachary Levi, too, so I'll see it. I remain cautiously optimistic, but this one's going to be streamed or Red Boxed rather than a theater visit for me.

 

 

*Not directed at zslane, who I quoted, just whoever had the temerity to disagree with me earlier. :D

 

At least it's a change from "the costume is too daaark."  ;)

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I like how the costume looks.  Part of Captain Marvel (pardon me, Shazam -- although that's the Wizard's name), part of his charm is the cheese, so having a costume that's not all badass leather and plastic works well.  I agree the foil around the lightning bolt doesn't work though.  He's supposed to have gold (as in gold foil not gold color) on his costume, but not like that.

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The obsession with costume detail is weird to me.


Do you look at that costume and see Captain Marvel? I sure as heck do... what else matters? Stitching? Foil embroidery? What is this, a sewing club?

 

People argue over different Batman costumes, etc. Is it dark blue, or black, or what. Why does it matter? It is iconic and has a certain "vibe" or feel or general look, that is all that matter. Pointy ears, generally dark blacks (blue was just how they colored things back then) ... bat symbol... you have Batman. Same with all the rest.

 

Costumes in movies need only do two things... evoke the basic concept of the character look... and not look stupid. Sometimes you can make both work, but the latter is WAY more important than being "faithful" (a horrible, conservative word). And faithful to what exact artist, at what time period, with what particular coloring scheme based on paper weight, available inks, etc,??

 

Cap in the first Avengers movie looked stupid. Tolerable for one movie, but not good. At least with the helmet/cowl on. Going forward, they've done a much better job, and in no way does he lack in being a proper visual representation of Cap brought to life. Most comic book costumes were designed by immature artists with minimal skills, rushing simplistic work out the door quicklky, without expectation to do anything more than create simplistic drawings with awful color combinations that set the main character apart from others. To hold to that tradition as some kind of ideal is... weird at best... angrily obsessive at most.


Spider-man is full CGI, and works for the most part, but just because one costume translates relatively well, doesn't mean every one should.

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13 hours ago, zslane said:

 

Well, see that's where I feel the evidence is stretched to draw the wrong conclusion. To my mind, the failure of Cap's look in the first Avengers movie was not at all evidence that "what works in comic books doesn't necessarily work in live action." The decisive counter-argument to that is Spider-Man's MCU costume. No, the failure of Cap's look in The Avengers was evidence of nothing more than the fact that that particular costume design just didn't capture the classic look in quite the right way (for a film camera). Spider-Man's costume is all the proof I need that it is entirely possible to do Cap's classic spandex look for live action, if done properly.

 

Would it be fair to say you liked and approved of Captain America's USO show costume in The First Avenger? Because that was nearly as close to the comic-book original as it's possible to get.

 

The various Spider-Man movie costumes do resemble the comic-book versions, although there have always been distinct differences between the media. But Spider-Man isn't physically built like most male superheroes. He's always been depicted as slimmer, more graceful... more like a normal human being, rather than Lou Ferrigno during his Hulk gig. Body type has an effect on how certain costume lines and patterns come across.

 

However, another important factor is an actor's ability to believe in and sell the look of what he's wearing. That was a big part of why Christopher Reeve was so memorable as Superman, despite a costume that by itself looked rather cheesy on a movie screen. Reeve radiated dignity, confidence and conviction in the role, so that's what we all responded to. For that matter, Gal Gadot did the same for Wonder Woman, despite the alterations in her costume from its comic counterpart (and her own frequently-criticized lack of Amazon muscle bulk).

 

To go back to the new Shazam, if Levi is able to project an attitude that matches that outfit, it will work, whether it's closer to the original or farther from it.

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15 minutes ago, Lord Liaden said:

However, another important factor is an actor's ability to believe in and sell the look of what he's wearing.

 

This is also why Chris Evans works so well as Steve Rogers. He inhabits that psyche and projects it so damn well on screen that the costume doesn't even matter. I remember when I watched Winter Soldier for the second time (out of twenty or so since) and was surprised when I realized that the first fight between Steve and Bucky under the bridge... Cap is not in costume. He has the shield, but he is fighting in a jacket and jeans, but in my mind's eye, he was Cap and I almost, psychologically assumed the costume.


That is an amazing portrayal... and one of the things that I like a lot about the movie version of Cap... in that Steve/Cap are really the same guy... just different clothes. Evans is Steve/Cap every second he is on screen, and he owns it.


There is a reason that he and RDJ and Hemsworth and Johansson (and I'd add Boseman to that now)... are worth their weight in gold to these franchises. They just imbue the screen with the presence of character, in or out of costume that is compelling in every scene. Gadot did that in Wonder Woman, but you could argue that is another issue with DC... none of the other actors in any way make that work.

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57 minutes ago, RDU Neil said:

 

This is also why Chris Evans works so well as Steve Rogers. He inhabits that psyche and projects it so damn well on screen that the costume doesn't even matter. I remember when I watched Winter Soldier for the second time (out of twenty or so since) and was surprised when I realized that the first fight between Steve and Bucky under the bridge... Cap is not in costume. He has the shield, but he is fighting in a jacket and jeans, but in my mind's eye, he was Cap and I almost, psychologically assumed the costume.


That is an amazing portrayal... and one of the things that I like a lot about the movie version of Cap... in that Steve/Cap are really the same guy... just different clothes. Evans is Steve/Cap every second he is on screen, and he owns it.

 

I firmly agree, but it took Evans a while to get there. He's on record as saying he was uncomfortable with the super-suit in The First Avenger. Not just the actual costume, but that he was the only one dressed in such a manner. IMO you can feel his awkwardness in that movie. Chris felt more at ease in Avengers because of the presence of other similarly-garbed people. By Winter Soldier he had found his groove as Cap, and he's been there ever since, in or out of the suit. OTOH RDJ and Hemsworth embodied their characters from the moment they first appeared on screen.

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1 hour ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

Sneak peek at Cheetah in Wonder Woman filming

 

 

Apologes for somewhat annoying Youtube girl host.

 

Looks like they're going with more old school Cheetah, not the one that looks like a cat but the woman wearing an outfit.

 

I am convinced that footage is simply stunt-rehearsal footage, and not actual shot footage.

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1 hour ago, Lord Liaden said:

 

I firmly agree, but it took Evans a while to get there. He's on record as saying he was uncomfortable with the super-suit in The First Avenger. Not just the actual costume, but that he was the only one dressed in such a manner. IMO you can feel his awkwardness in that movie. Chris felt more at ease in Avengers because of the presence of other similarly-garbed people. By Winter Soldier he had found his groove as Cap, and he's been there ever since, in or out of the suit. OTOH RDJ and Hemsworth embodied their characters from the moment they first appeared on screen.

 

If Evans' discomfort came through in the first Cap movie, it came across (to me at least) as essential to the character of Steve Rogers being uncomfortable with the showmanship and notoriety of Cap, rather than any issue of actor and outfit. I never felt that the WWII movie Cap had a real "costume" as much as a cool, modified army uniform. (Not referring to his USO stage costume.) The fact that Evans pulled off the terrible Avengers costume as well as he did is a credit to his ability to project Cap/Steve no matter what he's wearing.

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