Create drinkable water

[DasBroot]

I'm making a character that can create or control up to 1 cubic meter of water as their mutant power. It's in a multipower for a few effects (change enviroment -run speed - the floor is wet, a blast of 5d6 with a water special effect to represent dropping it on someone (weighs 1000 kg), a low point summon to make a 1 meter tall water elemental, telekinesis (water only) )

 

The last trick I'm trying to add is the ability to fill up people's glasses at a party.  Honestly it could probably be hand waived but I'm curious as to how to mechanically pull it off.

 

Transform air to water? Seems easiest.  How would it be written up? Are there better options?

 

The idea is that he COULD fill a swimming pool..... eventually... 

[ghost-angel]

Transform is the most straight forward and standard build for this kind of thing; Either as "any liquid to water" or "air to water"; the Anything To Water means they can create drinkable water from any liquid available, but not necessarily create water from nothing.

 

I'm sure you could finagle a Change Environment to create drinking water from undrinkable water, but that's still not as RAW as a Transform would be.

[JohnnyAppleseed098]

My suggestion is to use Air to Water. The liquid to water one would require you to have a large amount of liquid. 

1 point of effect is about 4 liter of water (Less if desired). 

 

Create Water: Major Transform: Air Into Water 2d6. Heals Back With Effective Counter Spell. (20 APs) Gestures (-1/4). 16 RP. 

 

As Words Die, I Would Create A Spell Like This, But Add "Improved Results Group (Any Liquid +1/4) So I Could Make Soda!

[Christopher]

Creating something to drink at a party using your powers? That is what the power skill is for.

Supply a group over days with fresh water? Totally differnt kind of shoes.

 

Object/Mater creation in superheroic settings is a bit tricky actually. It runs against the "only use what you paid points for" rule and will propably run against it regulary. It is so much cleaner in heroic settings (buy/craft equipment using money).

 

Tansform was mentioned.

 

Is this about being able to supply the group with water in hostile territory? Life Support (Drinking), Usable by others/nearby.

Creating water/food/air can be easily moddeled via Lifesupport. The Vehicle rules in 6E2 afaik even included some rules for "how many person-days of food/water/oxygen can that spaceship store".

 

One of the Advanced Player Guides has a power "Object Creation", that aims to get around the need to use transform for heroic settings. Again this is not quite suited for superheroic settings, where such effects barely play a role.

[DasBroot]

I could do both, actually. The life support usable on others (super cheap in the multipower) for long term use is a good idea.  Transform could be used to put out campfires, fill swimming pools (after 2400 uses!), etc. 

 

I mostly have an issue with the 'healed back'  criteria, which I usually do.  

[ghost-angel]

Ah yes, Life Support is the option that I had forgotten about, the option frequently used for building Spaceships in SF games.

[Zephrosyne]

I'd use Object Creation (Advanced Player's Guide 2) with appropriate Limitations to do it; although, technically it is a bit questionable for the same reason as Transform in that it steps on the toes of Life Support (with Usable By Others).  As gm, I have a tendency to be not as strict about such things.  For example, I wouldn't care if someone used their RKA 2d6 fireblast to burn wood for a campfire (as opposed to making them buy the appropriate Life Support).  I just can't bring myself to get worked up about the little things. 

[massey]

There are a bunch of ways to do it legally.  Filling a swimming pool isn't exactly a combat power.  It's something where the GM should be pretty easygoing with the players on letting them do it.  "Your superpower can be used to substitute for a garden hose???  That's unbalancing to my campaign!!!"  Riiiiight.

 

Life Support will work.  And remember that Life Support basically means you just don't need water at all.  While the special effect could be creating water for everyone to drink, if you get right down to it, they wouldn't need to drink at all.  Because of this, Life Support gives you something that the other powers don't (and so those other powers aren't stepping on its toes).

 

Change Environment can create water, potentially a lot of it.  It can create a rainstorm, or have dew collect on the ground.  I'd let you fill drinking cups with it, no problem.

 

Dispel vs fire, defined as a water blast would work too.  Along with any other sort of offensive power (EB, x2 KB "hydro blast", etc).  

 

You could have a water-based Force Wall as well, and that would probably let you fill up multiple hexes at once.

 

Transform would work.

 

And finally (though I'm sure Tasha will hate this), I think you can use Summon.  Summon lots of water.  A hex of water is cheap.  It's basically just Body.  Maybe Desolid, always on, only vs physical.  It doesn't actually do anything, so it's cheap.

[Christopher R Taylor]

I use transform (cosmetic) for purifying water, and transform (major) to make water out of air.  It doesn't take a lot of dice.

[Lucius]

I could do both, actually. The life support usable on others (super cheap in the multipower) for long term use is a good idea.  Transform could be used to put out campfires, fill swimming pools (after 2400 uses!), etc. 

 

I mostly have an issue with the 'healed back'  criteria, which I usually do.

"heals" by evaporation.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary says just use Power Skill and don't even make them roll for it.

[DasBroot]

There are a bunch of ways to do it legally.  Filling a swimming pool isn't exactly a combat power.  It's something where the GM should be pretty easygoing with the players on letting them do it.  "Your superpower can be used to substitute for a garden hose???  That's unbalancing to my campaign!!!"  Riiiiight.

 

And finally (though I'm sure Tasha will hate this), I think you can use Summon.  Summon lots of water.  A hex of water is cheap.  It's basically just Body.  Maybe Desolid, always on, only vs physical.  It doesn't actually do anything, so it's cheap.

 

Nobody would care if I could fill the pool in a single action (and it wouldn't be hard, either - once you pile on the AoE you start getting a lot of cubic meters of water in a hurry).  It's definitely a design choice.

 

Summon was my second thought (and honestly closer than transform in concept - it's a micro portal to the elemental plane of water) but I tend to agree that it's for beings - despite Champions Complete saying you can use it to summon vehicles, etc. The problem is the tasks list.  The water (which can do nothing) has to be slavishly devoted by the CC rules for summoning objects and is good for ego tasks (what tasks? It's a puddle of water) and then ... fails to wander away because it can't? Same thing with summoning your mountain bike - you can drive it for a few phases of combat and then it's no longer under your control.... but... it's a bike so what happens?

 

Messy.

 

"heals" by evaporation.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

 

That is exactly what I came up with when I started doodling the power in the builder after the input from the thread. Thematic and obvious!

[Christopher R Taylor]

The reason you can summon vehicles (and bases) is that they have actual character sheets, and hence a cost.  Stuff without a cost I would not allow a character to "summon."  It has no roll modifier to bring into the world and make stay, it has no power level to gauge what they can summon, etc.

[Chris Goodwin]

I mostly have an issue with the 'healed back'  criteria, which I usually do.  

 

Recovery condition: One hour after it is filtered through a kidney and exposed to air.

[massey]

Nobody would care if I could fill the pool in a single action (and it wouldn't be hard, either - once you pile on the AoE you start getting a lot of cubic meters of water in a hurry).  It's definitely a design choice.

 

Summon was my second thought (and honestly closer than transform in concept - it's a micro portal to the elemental plane of water) but I tend to agree that it's for beings - despite Champions Complete saying you can use it to summon vehicles, etc. The problem is the tasks list.  The water (which can do nothing) has to be slavishly devoted by the CC rules for summoning objects and is good for ego tasks (what tasks? It's a puddle of water) and then ... fails to wander away because it can't? Same thing with summoning your mountain bike - you can drive it for a few phases of combat and then it's no longer under your control.... but... it's a bike so what happens?

 

Messy.

 

 

That is exactly what I came up with when I started doodling the power in the builder after the input from the thread. Thematic and obvious!

 

 

The reason you can summon vehicles (and bases) is that they have actual character sheets, and hence a cost.  Stuff without a cost I would not allow a character to "summon."  It has no roll modifier to bring into the world and make stay, it has no power level to gauge what they can summon, etc.

 

Summon costs a minimum of 1 pt.  Even if you Summon a 0 pt nobody, it still costs 1 pt.  Since normal water can't actually do​ anything, you don't have to worry about a task list or anything like that.

 

Remember, filling a swimming pool doesn't have any combat effect.  I suppose you could drown someone if they couldn't get out, but you're just exposing them to an environmental hazard at that point.  If they can swim, there's no problem.  Major Transform is an attack, priced comparable to RKA because turning someone into a frog or a statue is a similar effect to killing them.  Major Transform is going way outside of what you need to do.  It's too expensive for what you get.

 

I could do it with a 1D6 Energy Blast, Area of Effect, Increased Area (a lot) "Water Blast", Does no Stun (-3/4) Does no Body (-0).  And that would let me fill a swimming pool in one shot.  With a few more doublings of the area, I could fill Lake Superior for probably 40 active points.  Using Summon is not abusive.

[Christopher R Taylor]

Summon costs a minimum of 1 pt.  Even if you Summon a 0 pt nobody, it still costs 1 pt.

 

 

But it still requires a character sheet.  That 0 point character still costs 0 points because it has an actual build.  Random objects and physical properties have no build.  You cannot summon an energy blast.  You cannot summon gravity.  You cannot summon bars of gold.  For very obvious reasons.

[Chris Goodwin]

This might be another use for the thing I posted about in the other thread: the minor Power, or the Power equivalent of a Perk.  

 

Life Support: No Need To Eat/Drink (1 week) costs 1 point.  +1 1/4 Advantage to grant it to everyone within 10m, all at once.  Water Only (-1).  2.25 Active Points (rounds to 2), 1 Real Point.  For 1 point you can create enough water for everyone within 10 meters to drink for a week.  

[massey]

But it still requires a character sheet. That 0 point character still costs 0 points because it has an actual build. Random objects and physical properties have no build. You cannot summon an energy blast. You cannot summon gravity. You cannot summon bars of gold. For very obvious reasons.

Then give it a character sheet.

 

Hex of Water:

All stats 0 except

15 Body

Desolidification, zero end persistent, always on, not versus energy attacks, cannot pass through watertight barriers

 

Done.

[JohnnyAppleseed098]

Then give it a character sheet.

 

Hex of Water:

All stats 0 except

15 Body

Desolidification, zero end persistent, always on, not versus energy attacks, cannot pass through watertight barriers

 

Done.

Um... I still don't think it would work. The cost of summon is 1 RP and the cost of a major transform, which does the same thing, costs 16 RP. The rule of HERO is that, with equally similar powers, you must choose the one that costs most.

 

As Words Die, I Ask If We Can We Add Improved Results Group Yet.

[ghost-angel]

It's a dumb rule.

 

Mostly I've gone with the build that is the simplest to create is the best build to use.

[Christopher R Taylor]

Then give it a character sheet.

 

 

Dude, why can't I buy summon nuclear blast?  I want to summon stacks of gold for my mage in your fantasy game!  Its 1 point!  I can summon a trillion gold pieces and buy the world!

[massey]

Dude, why can't I buy summon nuclear blast?  I want to summon stacks of gold for my mage in your fantasy game!  Its 1 point!  I can summon a trillion gold pieces and buy the world!

 

Your sarcasm is misplaced.  What does Summoning water do?  It brings forth inanimate water that just sits there on the ground.  This is not an abusive power.  Why are you afraid of a simple game mechanic?  There is no default "create inanimate piece of environment" power that this is replacing.  I'm not rubbing my hands together in glee saying "ha ha, I've really gotten away with one here".

[Lucius]

Dude, why can't I buy summon nuclear blast?  I want to summon stacks of gold for my mage in your fantasy game!  Its 1 point!  I can summon a trillion gold pieces and buy the world!

Okay, first of all, I too don't agree with using Summon for these kind of effects. But it seems to be becoming popular.

 

For filling a swimming pool I'm actually thinking Life Support, Area Effect (for an aquatic creature, yes, it would be Life Supporting.)

 

But I feel compelled to respond to the two issues raised above.

 

As for Summoning a nuclear blast: You already CAN Summon a nuclear missile.

 

As for Summoning a trillion gold pieces to buy the world with: okay, so I use Transform for my spell to create a trillion gold pieces to buy the world with. If that doesn't make you happy - and I don't expect it to - then you don't have a problem with using Summon to create a trillion gold pieces to buy the world with, you have a problem with any means of creating a trillion gold pieces to buy the world with. In which case, why bring it up?

 

Lucius Alexander

 

SATOR AREPO TENET OPERA ROTAS

[massey]

Um... I still don't think it would work. The cost of summon is 1 RP and the cost of a major transform, which does the same thing, costs 16 RP. The rule of HERO is that, with equally similar powers, you must choose the one that costs most.

 

As Words Die, I Ask If We Can We Add Improved Results Group Yet.

 

 

I am not aware of this rule.  But even if it were written in stone, you're applying it selectively anyway.  Let's look at some other powers.

 

 

10D6 Energy Blast

 

or

 

5D6 Energy Blast, x2 KB + 5D6 Energy Blast, Does no KB

 

 

 

The second one is higher in active points, and real points.  Does the game require that build?  No.  Let's look at another one.

 

 

 

10D6 Flash vs Sight

 

or

 

10D6 Major Transform, from target to target that has been hit by a 10D6 Flash vs Sight

 

 

Again, your rule would require the second one to be used.  But the game does not require that build.

[Lucius]

Then give it a character sheet.

 

Hex of Water:

All stats 0 except

15 Body

Desolidification, zero end persistent, always on, not versus energy attacks, cannot pass through watertight barriers

 

Done.

Hm. So your hex of water can make a Perception roll at 9 or less to notice something.

 

I can use Telepathy or even Mind Link to find out what it's noticing.

 

Or use Mental Illusions to make it experience whatever I want to. It has EGO 0 so is easy to effect.

 

 

Yeah, I'm not sure I'm buying this.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary tries using Charm Skill to make friends with a hex of water.

[massey]

Hm. So your hex of water can make a Perception roll at 9 or less to notice something.

 

I can use Telepathy or even Mind Link to find out what it's noticing.

 

Or use Mental Illusions to make it experience whatever I want to. It has EGO 0 so is easy to effect.

 

 

Yeah, I'm not sure I'm buying this.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary tries using Charm Skill to make friends with a hex of water.

 

Sure, it can do it at its base Speed of Zero.  When does its phase come up?

 

Do you have "inanimate objects" class of minds on your telepathy?

 

And if Aquaman can talk to some damn fish, and Swamp Thing can talk to grass, I don't see why someone else can't talk to the water.