Christopher R Taylor Posted February 12, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2016 True. Which makes Crimson Swallow a good name. Well I leave that up to the "publisher" and the person creating the characters. I was just thinking about the guidelines and principles we build them around: recognizable but not too close in name and image, with simple builds and backgrounds someone can plug just about any gender into (and, for most at least, any ethnicity. Why can't Iron Person be Brazilian?). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cassandra Posted February 12, 2016 Report Share Posted February 12, 2016 The male version of a "Swallow" in the KGB was called a "Raven". The German Jet Me-262 Fighter was also called a Swallow. A Russian Female "Superhero" with seduction and powered armor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted February 13, 2016 Report Share Posted February 13, 2016 I like the idea of a stripped down character sheet. Would it have any point costs, or would it simply be powers, characteristics and skills? The more advanced sheet could be at the back and include costs for things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher R Taylor Posted February 13, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2016 Here's what I figure it should look like, a sheet I built based on some ideas from other people: The filled out version would have really simple info like rolls for skills, all Combat Value slots filled in with the (OCV+11)-3d6 roll (so an OCV 8 has a 19- roll in the combat value slot) and no costs anywhere. Powers are listed in the simplest terms - damage, name. The idea is to give the players as minimal info as they can use to play with and no more. Plus, the color coding allows the GM to say "your stats are in the green section!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjd59 Posted February 13, 2016 Report Share Posted February 13, 2016 Christopher's sheet is great, I'm using it almost in the manner your talking about with three new players, and it's working wonderfully to break them into the system. Had three pre-gens with all their powers and such on Christophers sheet stating what each could do and how it worked written out in plain english. Then, we also had normal full character sheets with all the gory details so they could see them and how the system works with the points and such. Basically just running combat scenarios to get things figured out, as the three have all role-played in other systems before. Once they have things figured out, we'll be setting up their own characters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
massey Posted February 13, 2016 Report Share Posted February 13, 2016 I like the idea of a stripped down character sheet. Would it have any point costs, or would it simply be powers, characteristics and skills? The more advanced sheet could be at the back and include costs for things. I was thinking about not even including characteristics. Maybe a note or two about amazing things you can do. So Thor clone might have a note "can lift over 100 tons". But not including that on someone like our Black Widow or Hawkeye clones, because it's not important for them. Just basically include to-hit bonus, damage, defense, hit points, and two or three skills. Black Widow 6 actions per turn, initiative 28 Martial arts -- +10 to hit, 9D6 damage Energy pistols -- +10 to hit, 10D6 damage autofire Defense -- +11 to avoid hit Armor -- 18 points (reduces all damage by this) Stun -- 35 points (loses next action if takes more than 20 in one hit) Tech skills, 12- Spy skills, 14- Charisma skills, 13- Special: Super-competent, can add up to a +3 to any die roll And just leave it at that. Maybe have a card you give to people with a few basic maneuvers. Anyone can dodge and get a +3 to defense. Anyone can block with an opposed roll. People with Martial arts (instead of just "punch") get +2 to dodge and block. And they can take -2 to hit for +2D6 damage. Make it really simple. A simple character sheet with all the normal stuff (but still not a complex writeup) would be included for people who want to compare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninja-Bear Posted February 13, 2016 Report Share Posted February 13, 2016 I was thinking about not even including characteristics. Maybe a note or two about amazing things you can do. So Thor clone might have a note "can lift over 100 tons". But not including that on someone like our Black Widow or Hawkeye clones, because it's not important for them. Just basically include to-hit bonus, damage, defense, hit points, and two or three skills. And just leave it at that. Maybe have a card you give to people with a few basic maneuvers. Anyone can dodge and get a +3 to defense. Anyone can block with an opposed roll. People with Martial arts (instead of just "punch") get +2 to dodge and block. And they can take -2 to hit for +2D6 damage. Make it really simple. A simple character sheet with all the normal stuff (but still not a complex writeup) would be included for people who want to compare. Thats aittle too stripped down. My kids with sime prompting can find thw info you need on a basic character sheet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjd59 Posted February 13, 2016 Report Share Posted February 13, 2016 Deleted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher R Taylor Posted February 14, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2016 In addition to a nice stock of 10-15 pre-made characters, we need a basic adventure. My preference is a single arc that tells a story, with these features: A way of making each character feel like they need the group, as if they won't be able to do it solo A way of emphasizing heroics, even overemphasizing it: save the kitten, rescue the hostages, stop the bad guy. The heroes save the day, triumph over bad guys and have a clear, bright line between good and bad Each adventure moves toward a solution of the reason the PCs come together, so its their story and their team's existence is very important. The resolution leaves them with all the essential tools of a superhero group (contacts, base, vehicles, etc). What I want to avoid is the way movie villains have been so often, where the PCs were the reason for all the bad stuff that took place. I also think that while more morally murky and conflicted stuff is fun and useful eventually that too many modern players need to be taught what a hero is and get really stark, clear good/evil choices and nudging so they understand the role of a superhero vs a fantasy character. What do other people think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher R Taylor Posted February 16, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2016 If we're going to do this, we need to do it, or drop it. Anyone willing to commit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
massey Posted February 16, 2016 Report Share Posted February 16, 2016 I've been putting something together. Not sure if I'll have the energy to see it through though. It's basically something I've been fooling with in my spare time over the last week. I'm thinking there'll be a six part adventure (effectively taking six sessions), for anywhere from 3-6 players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
massey Posted February 17, 2016 Report Share Posted February 17, 2016 Had to download the new Hero Designer. I had an old old version that worked fine for 5th, but after designing 3 different 6th ed characters by hand (and constantly checking to see if costs had changed), I decided to spend the 25 bucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjd59 Posted February 17, 2016 Report Share Posted February 17, 2016 Will do whats needed of me. Just point me in a direction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
massey Posted February 17, 2016 Report Share Posted February 17, 2016 I'm thinking the scenarios should walk the GM through everything, with baby steps. This is for a new GM as much as it is for new players. As I'm seeing it, you could pick up a copy of 6th ed or Champions Complete, skim over it briefly, and then run your players through the campaign. Because you know that's what people do. I've played in a lot of games where the GM was the only person who had the book, and it turns out, he didn't actually really read it before the campaign began. Rather than fully explain everything in a, shall we say, Long-ish manner, the book would give you info only as you need it. You don't need to know how mental powers work until the mentalist shows up in session 5. Nor do you need to know how Mind Scan works, because he doesn't have that power. Even something simple like spreading an Energy Blast would not be mentioned until you encounter Captain Dodge-a-Lot later in the adventure. Then the GM reads the note about spreading and suggests it to the player with the Optic Blast. No challenge would be presented without the book suggesting half a dozen possible ways for the heroes to get around it. This would be for people who have never played Champions before, or possibly even superhero rpgs in general. You never know when a player is going to sit there with his head up his butt and not think to use his powers. You can't count on Iron Man to think to hack into the Pentagon's computer systems to figure out where the next alien attack is going to be, especially because Iron Man's player may not even realize he can do that. I'm in a pretty busy time at work right now, but we'll see what I can throw together. I can't draw worth a darn, so if we wanted to make this nice and official looking, we'd need someone with good artistic talent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher R Taylor Posted February 18, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2016 That's how I see it as well, Massey. The first session should be as simple a basic event and fight as possible, staging into more complex mechanics each adventure until the full ruleset is well understood by players and GMs. I keep coming back to the concept of a tutorial, and that's what this would be: an RPG tutorial for GM and players. I'm willing to do the part of the publisher and do some art, writing and character design if needed. Here's my vision for the overall themes of the product and structure: The way I see it we need at least double the number of possible characters as usual players. 6 seems like the most a gaming group can reasonably be and not give the GM ulcers, so 12 characters at least, 15 maybe. I think we need at least 5 stages of an adventure, preferably 1 session each until the final climactic which can be several parts. Each adventure should be a classic superhero scene. We don't need to worry about cliche because that's part of the reason we play these games (to do the stuff in comics) and players are likely unfamiliar with the old comic book cliche's anyway, and have likely never played Champions before. So: the hostage, the bank robbery, the poisoned reservoir, etc We should avoid big, epic themes and focus on smaller, street level stuff for the adventure, so players don't feel underpowered or like they are cheap versions. Starting characters aren't the cosmic world-saving Galactus beaters. Useful, I think, would be a book of basic "how to play" in super simple terms and layout for players to see. It might feel like we're treating players as children or imbeciles, but that is the approach that seems to go over really well with modern readers and if you make it funny and ironic, they won't feel condescended to. I think Cracked Magazine's layout of some text then a goofy pic with a funny caption works. Lots of bright colors and images. The GM should have full built character sheets for each character. The overall theme of the adventure should be fun, heroism, introducing the system and concept of heroes, and bright and explosive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdamnhero Posted February 18, 2016 Report Share Posted February 18, 2016 I'd be interested in helping with writing, reviewing, etc. I have run a lot of convention games for Hero newbies, for whatever that experience is worth. Not sure how much time I'll be able to commit tho. Especially without any commitment of support from Hero Games or another publisher? I like the simplified character sheet - I use a similar version that is mostly text rather that a spreadsheet-type format. We can try both and see what works. I agree about leaving costs off; I agree about leaving Characteristics on. My only negative comment is I really hate the idea of using Avengers knockoffs for PCs! It makes us look derivative, like we're trying to be a third-rate Marvel Heroes knockoff. Use original characters, ideally ones that show the strength and versatility of the Hero System? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steriaca Posted February 18, 2016 Report Share Posted February 18, 2016 Here's an idea storyline for this project. The heros stumble upon a bank robbery committed by agents of the Shadow Syndicate. Theas guys are simply thugs with laser guns. When captured, they only mention there leader, named the Shadow Boss, in hushed tones. The next time the hero's encounter the Shadow Syndicate, they are kidnapping the daughter of a noted local scientist. This time they have a super villian with them. They learn that the Syndicate is after one of the doc's inventions, and they need to steal some items for it. They also need to save the scientist in question. Finally, they need to prevent the activation of the invention itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
massey Posted February 18, 2016 Report Share Posted February 18, 2016 I was going with the idea of having Avengers knock-offs fight some X-Men knock-offs. Really I just want to use my buddy's character, Professor Executioner. By keeping the tone fairly light, I think knock-off characters add to the humor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steriaca Posted February 18, 2016 Report Share Posted February 18, 2016 Here's an idea storyline for this project. The heros stumble upon a bank robbery committed by agents of the Shadow Syndicate. Theas guys are simply thugs with laser guns. When captured, they only mention there leader, named the Shadow Boss, in hushed tones. The next time the hero's encounter the Shadow Syndicate, they are kidnapping the daughter of a noted local scientist. This time they have a super villian with them. They learn that the Syndicate is after one of the doc's inventions, and they need to steal some items for it. They also need to save the scientist in question. Finally, they need to prevent the activation of the invention itself. Well, it is more of a story then I seen so far in this thread. I'm not attached to the recreated Advengers idea (mostly because I don't want the Wrath of Unka Walt upon Hero, regardless of who is publishing it). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assault Posted February 19, 2016 Report Share Posted February 19, 2016 I think the point of knock off characters is to allow people to play characters like the ones they like. Just using Avengers characters is a short cut version of that. In theory you could use a whole list of popular characters (Batman, Wolverine, Superman, Spider-Man...). The problem is that they don't all mix well in terms of power levels. But that's a problem even with the Avengers - see Thor. In terms of the scenario - there should be something serious at stake. Something a bit more than just one gang (VIPER or whatever) moving in on another. Of course it can look like that's all that's happening at first, but then you need NPCs or something to hook the PCs into the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wcw43921 Posted February 19, 2016 Report Share Posted February 19, 2016 Perhaps some of the characters in this thread could be used for this project. Good mix of attributes, skills and powers. You may need to change some of the names and backgrounds--I was thinking your Defender could be called Metallic Man, for instance. Hope that helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher R Taylor Posted February 19, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2016 I think having some original builds to show off what Champions could do is a fun idea but for a beginning set of characters, getting too weird might be too complicated for starters. It might be done, though. The principle of using the Avengers is to make a quick, familiar, and easy jump off point for new players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steriaca Posted February 19, 2016 Report Share Posted February 19, 2016 Since we are talking about "The Ad Vengers", and there has been lots of members of that group, it would be easy to have 15 to 20 characters based on members who the players don't know of. Like Power Man (Luke Cage, uncuttable skin, minor brick), Mantis (Martial artist), She Hulk, Wonder Man (brick with an energy special effects), Beast, Tigra, ect... By focusing on the also rans, we could get away with this without triggering the Wrath of Walt. Of course we would have to have Cap'n Shield, Shellhead, Clawguy, Greenguy, Thunderhammer, ect... That is if we are going to go this way at all. I'm still learly at the idea of using disguised Advengers as playing characters, both on a legal sense, and a created sense. Also remember, even if we don't make a profit from this, we can still get sued for this if it prevents someone else from doing something similar (like something Disney press would put out, hint...). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoloOfEarth Posted February 19, 2016 Report Share Posted February 19, 2016 If you're talking about including 12-15 possible pre-gen PC heroes, there's no reason why you can't have a selection of a few homages to Avengers, as well as a few homages to lower-level Justice League members, as well as some original characters. You should be able to cover the different archetypes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher R Taylor Posted February 19, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2016 Yeah I was thinking the same thing, we can add in Wonder Chick, Batmanuel, and so on to the choices as well as, say DaringDude, Spider-Fellow, and others. Options that seem familiar to a broad group of players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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