Combat value sellback to 0

[Surrealone]

BACKGROUND:
In 5th Edition and earlier, the sellback floor (for the sellback of base characteristics) was 1pt and only one figured characteristic could be sold back.  This made logical sense as characters tend to have bodily issues when things such as STR, DEX, CON, BODY, END, REC, STUN, etc. are at 0.  For context, back then OCV/DCV were not considered characteristics, so they couldn't be sold back -- and MOCV/MDCV did not exist.

 

TODAY:

Per 6e RAW, characteristics can be sold back to a floor value of 1, and an exception is made for Running/Leaping/Swimming to allow them to be sold back to 0m if the character lacks that movement ability entirely. Enter the new characteristics of OCV/DCV/MOCV/MDCV.  Since no RAW callout is made to allow them to be sold to 0 if the character lacks that ability, this sets a sellback floor of 1 for each of them.

​QUESTION:
Shouldn't CV's be able to be sold back to 0 if the character lacks combat capability that would result in an applicable base CV of 0? 

​POSTERCHILD EXAMPLE::
Why, per RAW, when a non-mentalist sells back MOCV must he still keep a MOCV of 1 -- which he would have no way to develop and no way of using?  If the character has no mental powers and, thus, no experience or means to use them -- shouldn't he be able to sell this back to 0 ... much like he sells back base swimming to 0 if he can't swim?

 

NOTES:

​I realize that on the surface this gets a little comical with DCV and OCV, but CV's of 0 still translate to being able to fight -- just badly.  That can be a boon for some, as in some cases a DCV of 0 may be desired -- say, by a character that LIKES getting hit because he uses Absorption as a defense to feed his abilities.  Hence why I am asking if CV's can be sold to 0 like running/swimming/etc. when appropriate.

​Please advise.

​Surreal

 

P.S. PD/ED come to mind, here, too.  There may be situations where a character lacks one or both (lacking ED would probably be the most common).  Shouldn't these be able to be sold to 0, too, if the character reasonably lacks one or both, due to concept -- much like running/swimming/etc being able to go to 0?

 

 

[Steve Long]

That's a fair question, and while it verges ever so slightly into game design/philosophy, I think it's worth answering. This would be a great topic for the Discussion board if you want to talk about it further with the rest of Herodom.

 

First, let's be clear:  there is no "exception" involved in all this. Running, Leaping, and Swimming aren't Characteristics. They're simply discussed in the Characteristics section because every character has them, so that's the logical place to put the relevant information.

 

So what the rules say is consistent across the board:  a character can sell back as many Characteristics as he wishes, but not to 0 unless the GM permits this. If you think you have a good case for selling one or more Characteristics back to 0, take it to your GM -- maybe he'll agree with you. In fact, assuming he's a reasonable person, I bet he will IF your reasoning is sound. For example, if you think Captain Papyrus, the Hero Made of Paper!*, should have ED 0 based on the fact his body's made of living paper, I expect most GMs would let you sell his ED back to 0. I certainly would, because you've given me a solid rationale based on your character concept and power set.

 

In the case of OMCV specifically, personally I have never permitted a sell-back to 0 based on the argument "I don't have mental powers so I don't need it." For one thing, I dislike that sort of gamist, exploit the rules for my own benefit, sort of thinking. For another, who says you won't ever have mental powers? You might get some temporarily as part of a scenario, for example, and your OMCV represents your inherent ability with them. Thus, if you look at the hundreds of 6E characters I've written up and published, none of them sell back their OMCV without a valid reason.

 

Re: the DCV point you raised, remember that per 6E2 37, a character can lower his DCV to 0 if he chooses. But that's an individual choice made from combat to combat; unless the GM permits otherwise, he can't sell back his DCV below 1.

 

 

*:  Captain Papyrus, the Hero Made of Paper!, TM 2015 The Insane Mind of Steve, Inc. All rights reserved. Tune in every Saturday morning to see more of Captain Papyrus's fantastic adventures!