Making Killing Damage Less Deadly

[Anaximander]

I am designing a super heroic campaign and am running the shtick of death being seldom fatal approach and having been struggling on what to do with killing damage.  I've considered converting all killing damage to normal damage.  I've considered the idea of using a provisional protected resistance in certain situations as one of my books suggests and remain unsure of what I want.

 

Basically, I like the idea of KD being a little scarier than normal damage.  I like the idea of damage that just can't be walked off; so, I want it present, but I don't want every character under the sun having to buy protected resistance when it doesn't make sense for their background, and I want those who do buy protected resistance feel justified in doing so. 

 

Does anyone have suggestions on how best to achieve these ends?

[Hyper-Man]

Check out the following Talents:

 

Combat Luck

Danger Sense

Defense Maneuver

 

Traditionally non-bullet proof heroes like Batman, Wonder Woman and Spider-Man work best with some combination of these.

 

HM

[Anaximander]

I am aware of those, but I am trying to figure out how to make the whole campaign less deadly.  I would like there to be a low likelihood of death for Alfred, Commissioner Gordon, Bruce's barber, and Unnamed Thug #3 unless it fits a story plot.  Basically, I want it slightly four-color but with a little Bronze thrown in for fun.

[Hyper-Man]

That sounds more like some form of Luck or plot immunity. 

 

HERO without the optional rules for increasing lethality is fairly survivable by default.  For instance, a fairly common 'complaint' is that it is virtually impossible to outright instant kill a normal with 10 Body (dead at -10 Body) with just one 1 bullet from any standard handgun (9mm, .357, .44, .50) or even a .50 Cal Sniper Round (3d6K) without invoking options like bleeding or hit locations.  So just NOT using those should go a long way towards accomplishing your goal.

 

HM

[DasBroot]

Double base Body from 10 to 20. Don't adjust Stun in any way.

 

This all but guarantees that even a normal person won't die from an errant killing attack (it would take a 7d6 killing attack to have a chance, and a 12d6 one to one shot someone with regularity).  The character who invests in resistant defences still has an advantage (as body is slow to heal).

 

It also lets people fall off buildings and survive, of course, but once again that's within flavour of the setting - even normal people in comics survive tumbling down things they shouldn't (and even as written it takes a 22d6 fall to 'probably' kill a normal person with 10 body, so what's a little more?).

[bigdamnhero]

Yeah, if that's really the game you want, sounds like your best bet is just to not use Killing Attacks and convert everything to Normal Attacks. I've done that for some games (mostly when I run for kids and/or run cartoon-ey games) and it works fine.

 

Alternately, I once had this half-baked idea of allowing characters to spend END to ignore BODY damage, to simulate the way Spider-Man et. al. are able to dodge so many bullets without having to worry about some mook eventually getting a lucky roll. In my mind, it was a sortof Ablative Combat Luck that cost END, so you could keep dodging (without having to actually Dodge) as long as your END holds out. I never really fleshed it out, let alone playtested it tho, so buyer beware.

[massey]

How about taking attacks that would normally be killing, and making them AP instead?  So instead of a 2D6 RKA for a big handgun, maybe it's a 6D6 AP EB?  Still dangerous, but it makes it a little more survivable because even Alfred is getting 1 or 2 PD against it.

[Vondy]

I am aware of those, but I am trying to figure out how to make the whole campaign less deadly.  I would like there to be a low likelihood of death for Alfred, Commissioner Gordon, Bruce's barber, and Unnamed Thug #3 unless it fits a story plot.  Basically, I want it slightly four-color but with a little Bronze thrown in for fun.

 

One what to look at it is to consider the intended special effect you are modelling rather than the name of the power. What about super-skills and heroic talents from Dark Champions or Pulp Hero or 6e Martial Arts that provide assorted defensive powers with defined special effects that are more suited to "not bullet proof" character concepts. Two examples,

 

Durable: Damage Reduction 50% Resistant PD and ED (You could make it "body only" at -1)

 

Heroic Grace: Resistant for 8PD and 8ED, Not vs. 1st Body.

[Cassandra]

Just ban all Killing Attacks.  There is nothing wrong with a Gun being a EB 6d6 versus PD, Beam Attack if you want to avoid killing in your campaign.

[Vondy]

Just ban all Killing Attacks.  There is nothing wrong with a Gun being a EB 6d6 versus PD, Beam Attack if you want to avoid killing in your campaign.

 

And, just to underscore Cassandra's point, an 8d6 normal damage attack on a normal person who has 2 defense will still do 6 Body!

[steriaca]

Remember, a "normal" has 8 BODY, and dies at -8. That means that he needs to have taken more than 16 Body Damage to die. Of course, restart protection will help the victim. It does mean it is usually hard to one shot kill someone (3d6 KA does a maximum of 18 Body Damage, but on average it is more like 9-12 thanks to the law of averages). That costs at the base 45 Active Points. The same cost in an Blast will do a maximum of 18 Body Damage, with the average about 9. Something to think about.

[Steve]

If you change killing attacks into normal attacks, a few defensive powers need to be adjusted in base cost (like Barrier), but it is actually fairly straightforward to implement. Doing this gives a strong Silver Age vibe to the campaign setting.

[Beast]

How about "a death must have meaning"
1 npcs that should not be harmed (Alfred.Gordon,Lois Lane)can find cover or the big bad forgets about them unless needed as a hostage

2 mooks and LTs always have a little more body or there is no body to be found ,but it looks as if they got away

3 radiation accident a chance to rewrite the pc again no body found

4 the big bad uses the npc as cover ,the pc will always hit and release the hostage or fall off the cliff w/ no body found, etc....

 

really as GM you can control who dies(the dice are not always absolute)
also avoid putting your players in a bind that they need to kill

[Cassandra]

One thing a GM can do is allow "Pulling A Punch" maneuver to be used without the -2 OCV penalty, and always do half body even if it makes the attack roll exactly.  This would encourage a less deadly campaign.

[Anaximander]

I like a lot of those ideas.  Some of the ideas I had already considered but rejected for various reasons, but I like the GM fiat approach the best.  To me, it's gaming should be about writing and/or participating in a fun story, but unlike in short story writing, plots in RPGs aren't affected by bad dice rolls, and characters never bob when you expect them to weave.

[TheQuestionMan]

Declare Killing Attacks (Damage) do half damage in Character Creation Guidelines.

 

Declare Killing Attacks (Damage) must do BODY to do STUN Damage.

 

 

IMOHO

 

 

QM

 

 

PS: The Rule are Guidelines the GM interprets, must make PC's aware of.

[Vondy]

One thing a GM can do is allow "Pulling A Punch" maneuver to be used without the -2 OCV penalty, and always do half body even if it makes the attack roll exactly.  This would encourage a less deadly campaign.

 

I've long done this. I find that penalizing players for playing to genre is counter-productive.

 

Yes, one can argue that "doing the right thing isn't always easy."

 

But, there is no specific need to enshrine that in mechanics, and I prefer the carrot to the stick.

[Balabanto]

I've never had this problem. Every so often, a hero dies, but it takes truly exceptional circumstances to make it happen.

[Christopher]

Yeah, if that's really the game you want, sounds like your best bet is just to not use Killing Attacks and convert everything to Normal Attacks. I've done that for some games (mostly when I run for kids and/or run cartoon-ey games) and it works fine.

 

Alternately, I once had this half-baked idea of allowing characters to spend END to ignore BODY damage, to simulate the way Spider-Man et. al. are able to dodge so many bullets without having to worry about some mook eventually getting a lucky roll. In my mind, it was a sortof Ablative Combat Luck that cost END, so you could keep dodging (without having to actually Dodge) as long as your END holds out. I never really fleshed it out, let alone playtested it tho, so buyer beware.

Star Wars D6 had a similar mechanic. You could spend character points (basically XP/Luck rolled into one) to add dice to a roll - inlcuding weapon resistance.

Of course Shadowrun allows the same with Luck and you can either declare it before or after the roll - inlcuding the dodge and weapon resistance rolls.

 

However both systems use a lot more dice then HERO does. And they also have actuall rolling for Dodge and Weapon Resistance, rather then 2 flat values like Hero.

 

Just ban all Killing Attacks.  There is nothing wrong with a Gun being a EB 6d6 versus PD, Beam Attack if you want to avoid killing in your campaign.

Just making a Campaign rule isthe simplest way. When looking at Superheroic builds (Heroes and Villains alike) I always asume a "Code vs Killing" somewhere in there. Or maybe CvK is just the implied campaign rule.

 

The one thing that let's KA work they way they do in Superheroics vs heroics, is the balance betweeen Damage Classes and (resistant) defenses.

The 6E KA have the feature that they only do slightly more Body damage and slightly less STUN on average then Normal damage. What makes thier Body damage that much more dangerous is the Quota of Resistant Defenses vs Regular Defenses. In the Guidelines it is usually around 50-75% of total defenses. For heroic game guidelines defenses are lower and the resistance percentage is lower.

[Vondy]

Star Wars D6 had a similar mechanic. You could spend character points (basically XP/Luck rolled into one) to add dice to a roll - inlcuding weapon resistance.

 

DC Heroes let you burn hero points to soak damage. 

 

In Hero, we already have optional rules for Heroic Action Points.

 

One could allow players to burn a HAP to avoid death or grievous injury.

[bigdamnhero]

One could allow players to burn a HAP to avoid death or grievous injury.

Savage Worlds allows you to spend Bennies to soak damage. I actually don't love that aspect, and don't use HAPs that way, but it's a good way to reduce lethality. Of course, that really only helps PCs, not bystanders and so forth.

[Cassandra]

If you want to reduce the deadliness of the campaign then have a 60 Active Point Maximum for all powers except Killing Attacks.  Killing Attacks are limited to Maximum 30 Points.

[bigdamnhero]

If you want to reduce the deadliness of the campaign then have a 60 Active Point Maximum for all powers except Killing Attacks.  Killing Attacks are limited to Maximum 30 Points.

Seems like that would nerf them so much you might as well just build everything as Normal Attacks.

[Cassandra]

Seems like that would nerf them so much you might as well just build everything as Normal Attacks.

 

Killing Attacks would be around to threaten normals to keep the heroes at bay.

[Lucius]

Killing Attacks would be around to threaten normals to keep the heroes at bay.

Give me 60 Active Points to build with and I don't need a Killing Attack to threaten a normal. Or to kill one for that matter.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary is threatened by vampires, ancient Egyptians, and classical musicians