Pattern Ghost Posted November 19, 2017 Report Share Posted November 19, 2017 7 minutes ago, megaplayboy said: Just a point of correction--Ms. Tweeden was never a soldier. Ah, OK, thanks. Like I said, I haven't been paying too much attention to it. I'll correct that with her name. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tech priest support Posted November 19, 2017 Report Share Posted November 19, 2017 Yeah she was dressed in body armor since they were doing a USO tour in a warzone. BTW I respect her for doing a tour for the troops just like I respect franken for the same act. It's sad it came to this. I think we can all agree on that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted November 19, 2017 Report Share Posted November 19, 2017 I hope no one will mind a temporary shift away from American politics. Here's an interesting analysis of what may happen to Russia post-Putin, which may come sooner than most of us thought: https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/there-can-be-no-second-putin-russia-looks-to-prospect-of-future-without-vladimir-as-sources-say-he-has-considered-quitting/ar-BBFbSoB?li=AArWeBz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
death tribble Posted November 20, 2017 Report Share Posted November 20, 2017 Please God, take Donald Trump off twitter. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-42051282 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tech priest support Posted November 20, 2017 Report Share Posted November 20, 2017 On 11/19/2017 at 10:17 AM, Lord Liaden said: I hope no one will mind a temporary shift away from American politics. Here's an interesting analysis of what may happen to Russia post-Putin, which may come sooner than most of us thought: https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/there-can-be-no-second-putin-russia-looks-to-prospect-of-future-without-vladimir-as-sources-say-he-has-considered-quitting/ar-BBFbSoB?li=AArWeBz Awww, poor pooty is "tired". Well, yeah, I guess all that corruption and murder can wear a fella out. I found it interesting that apparently in Russia the state decided who is allowed to run for office. As to whatever replaces pooty, assuming this isn't a ruse to lure out those who would be happy so see him go so they can be shot or poisoned, all I can say is that I am not expecting an improvement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megaplayboy Posted November 20, 2017 Report Share Posted November 20, 2017 His successor could do any/all of the following to assure people things have changed: 1. Relinquish state control of the press 2. Allow full freedom of speech and assembly 3. Stop persecuting dissidents 4. Withdraw from Ukraine 5. Withdraw support for Assad 6. Admit interference with foreign politics Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tech priest support Posted November 20, 2017 Report Share Posted November 20, 2017 It is more likely that whatever replaces pooty will increase government control over elections and the repression of dissidents to keep america from interfering in russian politics.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Posted November 20, 2017 Report Share Posted November 20, 2017 Is that better or worse than Russia plunging into a failed state civil war with perfectly functional citybuster nukes rolling around? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megaplayboy Posted November 20, 2017 Report Share Posted November 20, 2017 5 minutes ago, Old Man said: Is that better or worse than Russia plunging into a failed state civil war with perfectly functional citybuster nukes rolling around? Sometimes I think we should trade economic assistance for denuclearization, because then we could scale down our own arsenal as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tech priest support Posted November 20, 2017 Report Share Posted November 20, 2017 We need to stop looking at Russia as a nation and see it for what it is: an oil company ran by mobsters who run a side hustle in cyber crime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sociotard Posted November 21, 2017 Report Share Posted November 21, 2017 I'm not sure how I feel about the increased rebelliousness of our civil servants lately. Or, at least, they seem more mouthy than I remember. General says he would defy 'illegal' nuclear launch order. https://www.google.com/amp/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN1DI0QV Large state department dissent over Myanmar child soldier designation. https://www.yahoo.com/news/state-dept-revolt-tillerson-accused-violating-u-law-060524602.html I just imagine Bush loyalists defying Obama. I don't like Trump, but I cherish our Democratic norms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted November 22, 2017 Report Share Posted November 22, 2017 It can sometimes be tricky to find the line between "I support the lawful authority" and "I was just following orders." Sometimes it takes history to define it. A big part of the issue is whether the majority of the public have faith in the competence and justice of their leaders, and/or in the system that supports them. So many nominal democracies collapse because the public's faith is lacking, often with good reason. The institutions of the United States have mostly earned that faith over generations, but there have been more than a few times when the conscience of many Americans was tested by the course its government chose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinecone Posted November 22, 2017 Report Share Posted November 22, 2017 I will take the time to say the general said "Illegal" orders, every soldier has that responsability. Netzilla and Lord Liaden 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattern Ghost Posted November 22, 2017 Report Share Posted November 22, 2017 4 hours ago, Sociotard said: General says he would defy 'illegal' nuclear launch order. https://www.google.com/amp/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN1DI0QV What he said is exactly what he's legally obligated to do. The linked article doesn't share the exact questions he was being asked, but it seems to me he was dealing with a persistent and annoying line of questions from someone. Let's look at what he actually said: Quote Hyten, who is responsible for overseeing the U.S. nuclear arsenal, explained the process that would follow such a command. As head of STRATCOM “I provide advice to the president, he will tell me what to do,” he said in his remarks, retransmitted in a video posted on the forum’s Facebook page. “And if it’s illegal, guess what’s going to happen? I‘m going to say, ‘Mr. President, that’s illegal.’ And guess what he’s going to do? He’s going to say, ‘What would be legal?’ And we’ll come up with options, of a mix of capabilities to respond to whatever the situation is, and that’s the way it works. It’s not that complicated.” Hyten said running through scenarios of how to react in the event of an illegal order was standard practice, and added: “If you execute an unlawful order, you will go to jail. You could go to jail for the rest of your life.” The headline doesn't tell the whole story, it's just click bait. The General is 100% in the right. He isn't acting rebelliously, he's telling someone how his job works, and what his legal obligations are. Netzilla, Grailknight, Lord Liaden and 2 others 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sociotard Posted November 22, 2017 Report Share Posted November 22, 2017 I'm aware he was talking about ILLEGAL orders. To me, it's a matter of where he puts the emphasis, particularly when talking to the press. I remember past, cold war generals who didn't even mention the possibility of an unlawful launch, and just said they'd follow orders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted November 22, 2017 Report Share Posted November 22, 2017 IMO different era, different political realities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iuz the Evil Posted November 22, 2017 Report Share Posted November 22, 2017 Different level of confidence in the sanity of the commander in chief. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tech priest support Posted November 23, 2017 Report Share Posted November 23, 2017 Risking political heresy, I saw a guy condemn Marx in another forum and had to say that when I look at America today and at what's happening in it I had to say that Marx was definitely on the mark on a lot of issues. So can we acknowledge that people can be Wong on some things and right on others even if they have a bad rep? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starlord Posted November 23, 2017 Report Share Posted November 23, 2017 20 minutes ago, Tech priest support said: So can we acknowledge that people can be Wong on some things and right on others even if they have a bad rep? Were we in danger of not acknowledging that? If so that's unfortunate and, dare I say, dangerous thinking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tech priest support Posted November 23, 2017 Report Share Posted November 23, 2017 Well, I swear in America today it seems like someone has to be 100% right or 100% wrong. If someone is on "the other side" in america today it seems like more and more people have to take me view tat they are utterly wrong on everything never did anything good, etc. I'm trying to fight that trend but without notable success. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted November 24, 2017 Report Share Posted November 24, 2017 Just keep fighting the good fight; but do it with reason and patience. The reasonable people will eventually hear you. I know they're not as loud as the crazies, but there are more of them, and they're the ones who always clean up after the crazies have inevitably exhausted themselves. Ranxerox and TrickstaPriest 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megaplayboy Posted November 24, 2017 Report Share Posted November 24, 2017 Gen. Flynn may have flipped and started cooperating with Mueller already. The best indicator of that? His legal team has stopped sharing information with the White House legal team handling Trump's legal defense. If he flips, there's really not a lot of people higher up he could flip on--Pence, Kushner, Sessions--but really mostly Trump himself. I can't imagine, if Flynn flips, that Manafort will decide to tough it out and roll the dice. He'd likely want a deal too. That would advance things to roughly "mid-game", imo. If Trump is implicated, all the pardon and firing options go out the window. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megaplayboy Posted November 27, 2017 Report Share Posted November 27, 2017 Addendum--someone pointed out a real risk to Trump if Flynn flips--suppose, after being interviewed by the FBI, being caught out in a lie, Gen. Flynn called up Trump and asked for a favor? "Hey, Mr. President, I've been a loyal soldier, can you help me out with this little problem with the FBI? I'd like to continue being a loyal soldier for you (hint hint)..." That would wrap the obstruction case up with a pretty bow on top. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ternaugh Posted November 27, 2017 Report Share Posted November 27, 2017 3 hours ago, megaplayboy said: Addendum--someone pointed out a real risk to Trump if Flynn flips--suppose, after being interviewed by the FBI, being caught out in a lie, Gen. Flynn called up Trump and asked for a favor? "Hey, Mr. President, I've been a loyal soldier, can you help me out with this little problem with the FBI? I'd like to continue being a loyal soldier for you (hint hint)..." That would wrap the obstruction case up with a pretty bow on top. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tech priest support Posted November 27, 2017 Report Share Posted November 27, 2017 I guess embarrassing america on a weekly basis wasn't enough. Even a biweekly basis wasn't enough. Now it's every, single, damn, day. https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/11/27/1718917/-At-event-honoring-Native-American-code-talkers-Trump-repeats-Pocahontas-slur Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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