Pattern Ghost Posted October 18, 2017 Report Share Posted October 18, 2017 My wife has a cousin like this. She tries to shut down any even slightly differing point of view. When I tried to point out to her this very thing, that the language used and the rhetorical approach used (shouting down everything) were considered insulting by the other side, it was just my white male fragility talking . . . some people. Seriously. I vote exactly the same way as she does on social issues that matter most to her*, like gay marriage, but she still can't have a civil discussion with anyone who isn't as -- I guess the polite adjective would be intense -- as she is. Her idea of a peaceful, equal world involves a whole lot of verbal abuse to get to. Edit: I should point out that it's not just a liberal thing. That example was just from the context and because I tend to have more liberally-minded people in my personal circles. I do have conservative friends, though they tend not to be as intense as this particular individual. Plus, we've seen plenty of examples of extremists of all political leanings lately. There are huge chunks of people on each side who need to really dial the rhetoric back ten notches and sort things out. *Actually, on nearly all social issues. Hermit 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermit Posted October 18, 2017 Report Share Posted October 18, 2017 My wife has a cousin like this. She tries to shut down any even slightly differing point of view. When I tried to point out to her this very thing, that the language used and the rhetorical approach used (shouting down everything) were considered insulting by the other side, it was just my white male fragility talking . . . some people. Seriously. I vote exactly the same way as she does on social issues that matter most to her*, like gay marriage, but she still can't have a civil discussion with anyone who isn't as -- I guess the polite adjective would be intense -- as she is. Her idea of a peaceful, equal world involves a whole lot of verbal abuse to get to. Edit: I should point out that it's not just a liberal thing. That example was just from the context and because I tend to have more liberally-minded people in my personal circles. I do have conservative friends, though they tend not to be as intense as this particular individual. Plus, we've seen plenty of examples of extremists of all political leanings lately. There are huge chunks of people on each side who need to really dial the rhetoric back ten notches and sort things out. *Actually, on nearly all social issues. Oh, it is certainly NOT just a liberal thing. I am myself pissed off that we have some delicate 'snowflakes' on the conservative side who take KNEELING as a sign of disrespect. But that will lead to a rant if I get going. And it's more than that. Suffice to say your cousin in law has plenty of mirror images on the conservative side. I've met them. *Sigh* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megaplayboy Posted October 18, 2017 Report Share Posted October 18, 2017 https://www.rawstory.com/2017/10/trump-finally-calls-widow-of-fallen-army-soldier-only-to-tell-her-he-knew-what-he-signed-up-for/ This is why you don't put an empathy-impaired guy in the Oval Office. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted October 18, 2017 Report Share Posted October 18, 2017 The general feeling I get from many is if you shut folks out of a conversation and turn that conversation into a 24/7 Lecture, one utterly lacking good faith, don't be surprised if they get up and walk away. And don't be surprised if some scam artist like trump curries their favor by pretending HE hears them and won't scoff. That's the part that gets me. Even if you agree with some of Donald Trump's avowed agenda -- and reasonable folks can and do, I know a few -- he's completely the wrong person to advance it, by temperament and experience. The language tricks he uses to persuade people are so transparently like every snake-oil salesman I ever met, it amazes and appalls me that so many fall for it. But obviously it works, which is why so many s-o s's still use it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermit Posted October 18, 2017 Report Share Posted October 18, 2017 That's the part that gets me. Even if you agree with some of Donald Trump's avowed agenda -- and reasonable folks can and do, I know a few -- he's completely the wrong person to advance it, by temperament and experience. The language tricks he uses to persuade people are so transparently like every snake-oil salesman I ever met, it amazes and appalls me that so many fall for it. But obviously it works, which is why so many s-o s's still use it. Agreed but then we go back to Sociotard's mention of one word that might fit "Despair" Leave someone in the desert long enough, any oasis will be tried. Whether its a mirage, or worse, poisoned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermit Posted October 18, 2017 Report Share Posted October 18, 2017 https://www.rawstory.com/2017/10/trump-finally-calls-widow-of-fallen-army-soldier-only-to-tell-her-he-knew-what-he-signed-up-for/ This is why you don't put an empathy-impaired guy in the Oval Office. I am not a psychologist nor do I play one on TV, but increasingly I think our President is a barely functioning sociopath Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iuz the Evil Posted October 18, 2017 Report Share Posted October 18, 2017 I am not a psychologist nor do I play one on TV, but increasingly I think our President is a barely functioning sociopathYeah. So I'm not going to diagnose him, as clinical diagnosis of mental disorders is actually in my wheelhouse and I'm not treating Mr. Trump buuuuuuuut: https://www.psychologytoday.com/conditions/narcissistic-personality-disorder The hallmarks of Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) are grandiosity, a lack of empathy for other people, and a need for admiration. People with this condition are frequently described as arrogant, self-centered, manipulative, and demanding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megaplayboy Posted October 18, 2017 Report Share Posted October 18, 2017 Yeah. So I'm not going to diagnose him, as clinical diagnosis of mental disorders is actually in my wheelhouse and I'm not treating Mr. Trump buuuuuuuut: https://www.psychologytoday.com/conditions/narcissistic-personality-disorder NPD(malignant variety), comorbid with psychopathy or antisocial personality disorder, and ADHD. But IANAP(I am not a psychologist). That's just my silly wild ass guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Posted October 18, 2017 Report Share Posted October 18, 2017 Still partial to the late-stage syphilis theory, though it'd hardly be mutually exclusive. @LL: Not only do the Orange Occupant's language tricks work wonders, they are extremely difficult to counter because most of his base lives in a social media/cable news bubble where they are simply not exposed to any challenges to their viewpoint. That's why they're extremely difficult to reach, and why the cognitive dissonance is so strong. I fervently believe that if the Fairness Doctrine or something like it isn't reimplemented, the electorate is going to go down an internet rabbit hole of lies and fake news so bizarre it'd make Alice in Wonderland look tame. Look at the conspiracy theories sprouting up around the Vegas shooting--Americans have completely lost the ability to distinguish fact from fiction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megaplayboy Posted October 18, 2017 Report Share Posted October 18, 2017 Trump's comments now confirmed by the mother of the fallen soldier. She said they did feel disrespected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tech priest support Posted October 18, 2017 Report Share Posted October 18, 2017 Speaking about politics, I just saw this. https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/georgia-governor-candidate-free-bump-stock_us_59e6bf1ae4b08f9f9edb7aa1?ncid=inblnkushpmg00000009 As soon as I saw the above, I was forcibly reminded of this: http://samuel-warde.com/2012/06/bill-maher-conservatism-is-just-about-being-a-dick/ I really believe bill Maher is right about at least a good chunk of conservatives. When 58 people are murdered at a concert with a bumpstock, and people suddenly become aware of them and think maybe they should be banned because they circumvent a law about full auto firearms then someone decides to give them away just to say "Up yours!" to them, yeah, you're proving bill Maher was at least partially right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sociotard Posted October 18, 2017 Report Share Posted October 18, 2017 Trump's comments now confirmed by the mother of the fallen soldier. She said they did feel disrespected. Given that we have the witness of three people, and one is a sitting member of Congress, and the President's credibility is what it is, I will assume the exchange happened as the wife described. I am not convinced the President intended to be disrespectful. It felt more like the clumsy statement of a man who is just bad at expressing condolences, like he was trying to pepper in a shot of "not my fault" with his "I'm sorry". I suspect the president feels like he is honest when he says he was not disrespectful, because he wasn't trying to offend the wife. I can't even blame him too hard for flubbing the name. I know I flub names all the time. I mean, were I to make these calls I would give myself a script with the names on it so I didn't make the mistake, but I can still empathize. Anyway, in the scope of presidential dickery, this isn't all that remarkable. Remember the time LBJ showed off his penis to a reporter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tech priest support Posted October 18, 2017 Report Share Posted October 18, 2017 LBJ never publicly displayed his penis. He did once display a gall bladder surgery at a press conference as proof he was physically fit to be president. His opponents had spread rumors he was too physically debilitated to remain president after a brief hospital stay. When he pulled up his shirt and displayed a fresh gall bladder surgery scar it killed the manufactured rumors on the spot as gall bladder surgery was common and hardly debilitating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DasBroot Posted October 18, 2017 Report Share Posted October 18, 2017 Most of President Trump's interactions and attempts at empathy and condolence fall into inner monologue 'Ok, Donald.... You can do this! Think! Think! What would a human say in this situation?' territory. I also don't think he *meant* to be disrespectful - he just don't *get* it. Which is not an excuse but it should be expected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Posted October 18, 2017 Report Share Posted October 18, 2017 Trump is now publicly calling the mother of the fallen soldier a liar, so if he isn't meaning to be disrespectful, he sure has an Olympic-caliber natural talent for it. pinecone 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
death tribble Posted October 18, 2017 Report Share Posted October 18, 2017 This is the BBC's coverage and includes Trump's tweet. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-41673380 Other than impeachment is there any other way short of his sudden death that you can be rid of him ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tech priest support Posted October 18, 2017 Report Share Posted October 18, 2017 Mental incompetence? Declare him mentally unfit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermit Posted October 18, 2017 Report Share Posted October 18, 2017 Yeah, Next Election we need as a country not to vote for him again in numbers that satisfy the electoral college Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
death tribble Posted October 18, 2017 Report Share Posted October 18, 2017 I was hoping for a solution prior to the 2020 election. My mother has taken a hard line and cannot understand why no-one has tried to assassinate him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermit Posted October 18, 2017 Report Share Posted October 18, 2017 I was hoping for a solution prior to the 2020 election. My mother has taken a hard line and cannot understand why no-one has tried to assassinate him. IMO Well, because that's murder and 99.9% of us frown on that despite what our TV shows might have non-Americans believe. Also...the Secret Service guys will drop you in a New York Minute even if their charge isn't worth spit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sociotard Posted October 18, 2017 Report Share Posted October 18, 2017 LBJ never publicly displayed his penis. He did once display a gall bladder surgery at a press conference as proof he was physically fit to be president. His opponents had spread rumors he was too physically debilitated to remain president after a brief hospital stay. When he pulled up his shirt and displayed a fresh gall bladder surgery scar it killed the manufactured rumors on the spot as gall bladder surgery was common and hardly debilitating. He didn't just take off a shirt. During his 1964 election campaign, LBJ invited some reporters to the presidential quarters of Air Force One for an impromptu news conference. Johnson "shucked off his underwear," according to White House reporter Frank Cormier, revealing to the press pool his trusted executive branch and nameless-but-still-beloved balls. The shameless incumbent then held court, "standing buck naked and waving his towel for emphasis,"https://www.ranker.com/list/lyndon-johnson-penis-obsession-stories/mel-judson Acknowledged that this is the internet, but accounts of him showing off his member, including commenting on it to reporters and staff while peeing, are legion. There's enough accounts that at least some of them have to be true. Trump comments on his, but he doesn't pull it out while doing so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Posted October 18, 2017 Report Share Posted October 18, 2017 Impeachment and removal by the House and Senate, respectively, or Article 25 removal by a majority of Cabinet members. I don't see either of these happening unless the GOP starts projecting unbelievably disastrous performance in the midterms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tech priest support Posted October 19, 2017 Report Share Posted October 19, 2017 Another way to weaken trump is for more people to simply refuse to obey or enforce his orders. Kind of like how Albert Speer refused to carry out htiiler's scorched earth policy. Some states have openly defied trumpenstein on the sanctuary city issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tech priest support Posted October 19, 2017 Report Share Posted October 19, 2017 I swear it's getting to where satire cannot outdo reality in America. Months ago this was satire: http://www.clickhole.com/article/beautiful-when-7-year-old-boy-could-no-longer-affo-6296 Today this is reality: https://www.thedailybeast.com/dear-baby-connor-your-coverage-is-denied No matter how horrible satire is today in america, reality quickly surpasses it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megaplayboy Posted October 19, 2017 Report Share Posted October 19, 2017 I was hoping for a solution prior to the 2020 election. My mother has taken a hard line and cannot understand why no-one has tried to assassinate him. We don't really like "the A-word" here in the States, because it's happened, or been attempted, too many times in real life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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