Political Discussion Thread (With Rules)

[Lord Liaden]

FWIW the rest of us who live in the Americas are more comfortable calling you the United States.

[Hermit]

FWIW the rest of us who live in the Americas are more comfortable calling you the United States.

 

Then how do you keep from mixing us up with the United States of Mexico?

[Lord Liaden]

We call them "Mexico." There's only one country of them, you know.

[Hermit]

We call them "Mexico." There's only one country of them, you know.

 

then we have something in common. But then understand I'm one o those whacky guys who sees North  America and South America as two different Continents and just plain "America" as a country. Yes, I know many have decided it's one continent... but it's two. I know because Teddy Freaking Roosevelt sealed the deal it that way by arranging a canal! Thanks Teddy!

 

So to all my fellow North Americans be ye Canadian, Mexican, or whatever. I say rock on 

 

And I hear South Americans are lovely people too

 

EDIT: And yes, of course I Know  you can call the country 'The United States' if you want.  That's two thirds of it's name  but if someone calls me a yankee or a "USian" or a  Gringo don't expect me to answer. Pet peeve. I try to respect what others prefer to be called, so I expect the same in return. Not singling you out, LL. But like I said, pet peeve.

 

 

EDIT EDIT: And I apologize. I'm probably being very defensive and unnecessarily so. I seem to be in a bad mood today

[Pattern Ghost]

EDIT EDIT: And I apologize. I'm probably being very defensive and unnecessarily so. I seem to be in a bad mood today

 

Dude. If that's you lashing out in a bad mood, I'm going to have to declare you one of the nicest people I know. It's like a puppy nibble compared to my mildly cranky responses.

[Tech priest support]

then we have something in common. But then understand I'm one o those whacky guys who sees North  America and South America as two different Continents and just plain "America" as a country. Yes, I know many have decided it's one continent... but it's two. I know because Teddy Freaking Roosevelt sealed the deal it that way by arranging a canal! Thanks Teddy!

 

So to all my fellow North Americans be ye Canadian, Mexican, or whatever. I say rock on 

 

And I hear South Americans are lovely people too

 

EDIT: And yes, of course I Know  you can call the country 'The United States' if you want.  That's two thirds of it's name  but if someone calls me a yankee or a "USian" or a  Gringo don't expect me to answer. Pet peeve. I try to respect what others prefer to be called, so I expect the same in return. Not singling you out, LL. But like I said, pet peeve.

 

 

EDIT EDIT: And I apologize. I'm probably being very defensive and unnecessarily so. I seem to be in a bad mood today

Well, upgrade to the round shield. Having that pointy one jabbing you in the ass constantly probably gives you a bad mood.

[Sociotard]

I was amused when I read through a history textbook from Central America that referred to us as "Estadounidoense", or United-states-ese

[Lord Liaden]

EDIT: And yes, of course I Know  you can call the country 'The United States' if you want.  That's two thirds of it's name  but if someone calls me a yankee or a "USian" or a  Gringo don't expect me to answer. Pet peeve. I try to respect what others prefer to be called, so I expect the same in return. Not singling you out, LL. But like I said, pet peeve.

 

 

EDIT EDIT: And I apologize. I'm probably being very defensive and unnecessarily so. I seem to be in a bad mood today

 

No, I should apologize. I meant only to take a gentle funning poke, not strike a nerve. Truth to tell, in my country we're often on the receiving end of a bit of center-of-the-universe attitude from some of our neighbors to the south. I'm afraid we sometimes take too much pleasure in taking a pin to it to deflate it. But I've never felt that from you, and I'm sorry for not showing the same respect you do.

[Pattern Ghost]

Don't worry, LL, we still like Northern Washington down here.

[L. Marcus]

Hey, be nice to the honorary Scandinavians.

[Tech priest support]

Trump is going to do what every republican with bad ratings does: start a war. More proof just announced.

 

https://amp.usatoday.com/story/785344001/

[Hermit]

Dude. If that's you lashing out in a bad mood, I'm going to have to declare you one of the nicest people I know. It's like a puppy nibble compared to my mildly cranky responses.

Kind of like that scene from an old Cheers episode with two young ladies I suppose

"Woody's girls are going to have a fight-" the gang

"Cat fight Cat Fight Cat fight!" -The gang

"Get out of my way or... I'll hurt your feelings!"- Girl 1

"If you do I'll hurt yours right back"- Girl 2

"Kitten Fight Kitten Fight" -Disappointed gang

 

Well, upgrade to the round shield. Having that pointy one jabbing you in the ass constantly probably gives you a bad mood.

The buttocks of freedom must often often take the jabbings of justice for true progress to prevail

 

(Or is it the other way around?)

 

No, I should apologize. I meant only to take a gentle funning poke, not strike a nerve. Truth to tell, in my country we're often on the receiving end of a bit of center-of-the-universe attitude from some of our neighbors to the south. I'm afraid we sometimes take too much pleasure in taking a pin to it to deflate it. But I've never felt that from you, and I'm sorry for not showing the same respect you do.

 

Ah well apologies all around then. I certainly know we Americans can take our "We're number One" attitude too far and too seriously to boot sometimes.  I'm afraid the direction of my country currently has me rather bummed and testy.

[Hermit]

Trump is going to do what every republican with bad ratings does: start a war. More proof just announced.

 

https://amp.usatoday.com/story/785344001/

 

Trump is Faithless. And I don't mean just in  a religious sense. 

[Armitage]

 We are more than a year away from the midterms, and longer than that from the start of the 2020 campaign.

 

 

Except for Trump, who started his reelection campaign the day after the Inauguration.  He loves campaigning and basking in the adulation of crowds at rallies, but doesn't want to do the actual job.

[Nolgroth]

Except for Trump, who started his reelection campaign the day after the Inauguration.  He loves campaigning and basking in the adulation of crowds at rallies, but doesn't want to do the actual job.

 

At this point, if he left the job of decision making to anybody else and spent the rest of his term "basking in the adulation" of rally crowds, I'd be satisfied. I actually don't want him to do the actual job because he has no idea how to. His gross incompetence goes beyond being unfamiliar with the traditions and expectations of the office. It is a stubborn, deliberate refusal to even try to learn.

[DShomshak]

One thing Trump has achieved: A lot of us are realizing, or remembering, how important such fuzzy and archaic concepts as "honor," "character," "tradition," and "trust" actually are to maintaining the sort of society we want to live in.

 

Back when I attended the University of Washington, I heard a talk from an emeritus professor who was one of FDR's advisors back in WW2. Early in the war, there was debate about media control. Should the government try to suppress news about military defeats or domestic labor unrest?

 

He said no. He argued that "The government of the United States must never be seen to lie." Or even to hide the truth. His reason: "If our enemies see that we tell the truth when the truth is bad for us and good for them, they will believe us when the truth is good for us and bad for them." Roosevelt agreed.

 

The payoff came at the end of the war. The administration knew the US was going to defeat Japan eventually, and began planning for the war's end. This led to what the professor called the most narrowly targeted propaganda campaign in history: aimed solely at Emperor Hirohito and the few other people with real power in the Japanese government. The message: Though we demand unconditional surrender, we in fact offer some conditions. There will be no revenge -- and the Emperor will live. In this, it is safe to surrender.

 

And the message was believed. Not to undervalue the importance of nuking Hiroshima and Nagasaki, but the professor argued it was just as important that the Japanese government -- in particular, Hirohito himself -- believed the back-channel promise that he would be spared.

 

I have remembered this story every time it has come out that the US government or president has lied through its teeth. When strict honesty was the rational strategic choice in the greatest danger the country faced in a century, what's your excuse for lying now?

[Lord Liaden]

I believe the excuse, although Trump would never admit it, is self-interest. His past actions show a pattern of decision making based on whatever would be best for him, personally, whoever else was involved.

[BoloOfEarth]

Except for Trump, who started his reelection campaign the day after the Inauguration.  He loves campaigning and basking in the adulation of crowds at rallies, but doesn't want to do the actual job.

 

Which I find amazingly ironic, especially after him campaigning against, among other things, career politicians.  "Clear the swamp," indeed. 

[Nolgroth]

I believe the excuse, although Trump would never admit it, is self-interest. His past actions show a pattern of decision making based on whatever would be best for him, personally, whoever else was involved.

 

I think that Trump is truly pathological in many ways and doesn't even understand what would be good for him or anybody else. He makes decisions on how they make him feel (powerful, smart, better, etc.). That has and never will be a winning governing strategy. In the short-term, he will feel good. In the long-term he damages the very civilization that he swore to protect and defend. In the long-term, he will go down as one of the worst presidents in history. He won't be alive to see it, but his descendants will. Maybe they will consider his utter and complete failure before committing to any sort of government service. Yeah, most politicians see a gravy train when they get elected, but there has to be a few who remember that elected positions are at the very core of government service.

 

Maybe?

[GoldenAge]

In addition to what Rather reports below, there are other indications that a) we were there supporting Russian interests for some bizarre reason, and forces from Chad, which has been a valuable ally against terrorist groups, had been removed from the area because the administration attempted to put Chad on the travel ban list.

From Dan Rather re: Niger:

"While everyone is so busy talking about Trump's #fakepresidenthandling of his call to the widow of the soldier killed in Niger, you're all missing the important part of that story -- the part about what happened that night in Niger.

Here's what we know so far:

These soldiers went to a meeting in an area near the border with Mali. This is a well known hot spot for ISIS activity.

Our soldiers were not backed up by US Military air support. No, they were backed up by the French, who were not authorized to intervene or even fire a shot.

Our soldiers did not have armored vehicles. They traveled in pickup trucks.

Our soldiers were given faulty intel that said "it was unlikely that they would meet any hostile forces." Of course, they walked into an ISIS ambush. It was chaotic and they took three casualties.
It took the French 30 minutes to arrive. When they did, they were not authorized to help. So, a dozen of our Green Berets fought a battle with more than 50 ISIS fighters, without help, for 30 minutes.

Finally, a rescue helicopter arrived, but it was not a US military helicopter. No, we apparently outsourced that job to “private contractors.” So, these contractors landed and loaded the remaining troops, the injured and the dead.

Here's where this gets really bad ....

Because they were not military, they never did a head count. That is how Sgt. La David Johnson was left behind.

That's right .... they left him behind.

According to the Pentagon, his locator beacon was activated on the battlefield, which indicates that he was alive when they left him there.

They recovered his body 48 hours later, but are refusing to say where. According to his widow, she was told that she could not have an open casket funeral. This indicates that he was mutilated after being left behind on the battlefield.

This is what led to the nonsense we're obsessing over. This is the real story. As usual, you're allowing it to be about Trump's distraction.

The Trump Pentagon gave these men bad intel, no support, outsourced rescue people and then tried for more than a week to pretend it never happened.

In that time, Trump spoke on many occasions and never mentioned it. He tweeted attacks on many but never mentioned these men.

Only after pressure from the media has he bothered to even acknowledge these men and their service."

Please COPY & PASTE to share

[Lord Liaden]

I've been looking for an original source for this story directly from Dan Rather. I've seen several repostings attributing it to Rather, but no original.

 

Not saying he didn't write it, or that it's not true; but we need to be better than everyone spreading unverified reports these days.

[Lawnmower Boy]

Oh, don't be a stick in the mud, LL! This is just like that story that Edward R. Murrow wrote, about how you could help all the hurricane victims stop global warming, and protect the Second Amendment by sending all your money to Lawnmower Boy, 213 Stevens Street, Vancouver, Canada.

 

That's 213 Stevens Street, Vancouver, Canada. USD only. Please copy and paste and send to all your friends who have money.

[Lawnmower Boy]

I'm also up for making a serious contribution. Here's Snopes on this emerging urban myth/fake news. The facts here rate as "mixture," but the attribution as a single story by Dan Rather seems to be an invention.

[Sociotard]

What bothers me is that this is similar enough to Benghazi that we can see there is no justice, only politics. The Republican Congress will not investigate thoroughly, because of politics. If this were a Democratic Congress, they would launch dozens of investigations and inquiries. This would also not be justice. This would also be politics.

 

There is no goodness.

There is no righteousness.

 

There is only politics.

There is only tribalism.

There is only factionalism.

 

We are lost. All is lost.

[Lord Liaden]

The US got through McCarthyism, it will get through this. It will take time, and courage and hard work by all honorable people; but this too shall pass.

 

Go watch Wonder Woman again. You'll feel clarified.