Political Discussion Thread (With Rules)

[Pattern Ghost]

As a commissioned officer, there's also only so much Kelly can get away with saying legally. Trump's still his commander in chief.

 

Edit: I just listened to his statement. I didn't honestly find anything that offensive. He seemed very annoyed at the congresswoman, which is pretty much what I'd expect from a general, then went on to recount his own experience after loosing his son in Afghanistan, then said he  advised Trump not to make phone calls, etc.

 

He said two things I'd say were directly in defense of Trump: First, was that it was the most difficult kind of phone call to make.Second, he said that Trump didn't mean the remark about the soldier knowing what he was getting into negatively. He elaborated that the remark was meant to convey that the soldier was brave, because he volunteered to put himself in harm's way. (Actually, I think I reversed the order of the comments.) Which is probably true. I don't think that remark was some kind of twisted victim blaming, just Trump's usual lazy speech patterns.

[Nolgroth]

As a commissioned officer, there's also only so much Kelly can get away with saying legally. Trump's still his commander in chief.

 

Sure. Let's just say that I put a lot more onto the shoulders of flag officers than I do the standard grunt. I'll leave it at that.

[Pattern Ghost]

Sure. Let's just say that I put a lot more onto the shoulders of flag officers than I do the standard grunt. I'll leave it at that.

 

Still illegal for an officer to talk smack about his superiors. So, don't expect him to outright condemn him. Also, see my edit above. I really didn't see that as a ringing endorsement of Trump. More like the minimum needed to follow a directive to go put out that particular fire. Further, the whole thing was a gross overreaction to Trump's lack of eloquence.

[Tech priest support]

Still illegal for an officer to talk smack about his superiors. So, don't expect him to outright condemn him. Also, see my edit above. I really didn't see that as a ringing endorsement of Trump. More like the minimum needed to follow a directive to go put out that particular fire. Further, the whole thing was a gross overreaction to Trump's lack of eloquence.

If talking smack means telling the truth and it's illegal then the law is wrong. If a military man puts loyalty to the lrez ahead of loyalty to the country he's made a bad call.

[Pattern Ghost]

If talking smack means telling the truth and it's illegal then the law is wrong. If a military man puts loyalty to the lrez ahead of loyalty to the country he's made a bad call.

 

Here's the relative article:

 

 

888. ARTICLE 88. CONTEMPT TOWARD OFFICIALS

10. Punitive Articles

 

Any commissioned officer who uses contemptuous words against the President, the Vice President, Congress, the Secretary of Defense, the Secretary of a military department, the Secretary of Transportation, or the Governor or legislature of any State, Territory, Commonwealth, or possession in which he is on duty or present shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.

 

Then again, he's not really on active duty in his present position, so not sure how far this really goes.

 

In the meantime, you go ahead and get riled up about this, while Trump goes and does something far worse. I'm paying more attention to the N. Korea stuff and the Mueller investigation.

[Tech priest support]

I'm not really convinced that NK is a menace. I mean I remember how we were told how dangerous the big bad soviet union was, until it collapsed like a house if cards.

 

I remember the lies about how horrible the Russian invasion of Afghanistan was and how they evil rooskies were dropping boobytrapped toys to maim afghan children and using poison gas on villages. Until we found out those stories were mostly lies.

 

I remember how we were fed horror stories by a weeping kuwaite girl about babies in kuwait being taken from incubators by the subhuman, monstrous Iraqi soldiers. They we found out she was lying.

 

I remember hearing how Saddam Hussein was behind 911 and was that close to having a nuke, plus his vast stockpiles of chemical WMDs. All lies.

 

Now we're hearing how awful NK is. I don't doubt that country is a miserable little state and the little Pillsbury doughboy running it is a few words I won't use here, but I've had too many boogeymen and horror stories conjured up for me to buy them automatically.

 

Frankly it seems like the american government has always needed a boogey man to keep people in line. Soon as one died another one came along so very conveniently. Yeah some boogeymen were real, imperial Japan, Nazi Germany, yes. A lot have been scarecrows.

 

As for watching the Mueller probe, want to split a bowl of popcorn with me?

[Pattern Ghost]

All NK has to do to worry me is one above ground test. We've got plenty of radioactive crud around from our own messes in WW II, and don't need any more. Trump's handling of the situation could push them that far. Diplomacy doesn't seem to be his strong suit, and sanity doesn't seem to be Kim's strong suit.

 

As for the popcorn, I'm unfortunately going low carb. The show does seem to be getting interesting, but this indictment could just be a trailer edited to make things look cooler than they are.

[Mister E]

In accordance with prophecy.

[Mister E]

Speaking of the second amendment, the latest issue of "America's First Freedom", one of the NRA's publications, has a cover that depicts Antifa as the bad guys and calls them "violent radicals". I assume that if the NRA is against anti-fascism, then they must be pro-fascism. Looks like it's finally time to figure out how to resign the life membership I got way back when things are different.

During Obama gun sales were way up because of the fear that the government was coming for your guns.

 

With 45 as president gun sales have dropped sharply because the people who were scared of Obama are not worried about 45. That & they already bought so many.

 

So now the new fear that is replacing the old fear is of the mythical radical left antifa.

 

Marketing.

[Nolgroth]

In the meantime, you go ahead and get riled up about this

 

 

You are correct. I see Trump in the context of a great threat towards the dignity of both the POTUS office and the people of the United States. Any defense of him is triggering the ol' "knee jerk" reaction. Thanks for posting the quotes and putting it into perspective. I might still have a few quibbles with General Kelly's response but at this point the whole issue is "more of the same" from the current administration. 

[Tech priest support]

During Obama gun sales were way up because of the fear that the government was coming for your guns.

With 45 as president gun sales have dropped sharply because the people who were scared of Obama are not worried about 45. That & they already bought so many.

So now the new fear that is replacing the old fear is of the mythical radical left antifa.

Marketing.

Actually I've heard blacks were buying guns at record numbers due to trump's election. https://www.nbcnews.com/business/consumer/trump-s-victory-has-fearful-minorities-buying-guns-n686881

[pinecone]

Here's the relative article:

 

 

 

Then again, he's not really on active duty in his present position, so not sure how far this really goes.

 

In the meantime, you go ahead and get riled up about this, while Trump goes and does something far worse. I'm paying more attention to the N. Korea stuff and the Mueller investigation.

Well, I'd say he is Not on active duty...but the behavior is ingrained. So pass. But its narrow.

[Nolgroth]

Actually I've heard blacks were buying guns at record numbers due to trump's election. https://www.nbcnews.com/business/consumer/trump-s-victory-has-fearful-minorities-buying-guns-n686881

 

I endorse this. Then again, I am an unrelenting proponent of the 2nd Amendment and I am NOT a racist. 

[Pattern Ghost]

You are correct. I see Trump in the context of a great threat towards the dignity of both the POTUS office and the people of the United States. Any defense of him is triggering the ol' "knee jerk" reaction. Thanks for posting the quotes and putting it into perspective. I might still have a few quibbles with General Kelly's response but at this point the whole issue is "more of the same" from the current administration. 

 

To me, Kelly's response seems more like damage control for his party rather than for Trump. He's been called the baby sitter, and I think that's probably close to the truth. For me his greatest sin is exactly that: more of the same. On the flip side, I think that the congresswoman (who, despite her penchant of bedazzled cowgirl hats is apparently quite accomplished) has played into their hands in drumming up the initial outrage. She's said that she's going to make no further comment on it, so my guess is that she's realized this. Or at least that she's a bit more dignified than the other side. 

 

I think the Republicans as a whole are leaning more toward doing damage control to preserve seats in the mid terms rather than denounce Trump. I'd rather see them distance themselves from him, but they seem to value his base's votes more than doing the right thing.

[death tribble]

I thought it was too good to last. Can someone please take his twitter account from him ?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-41796255

[Hermit]

A witch hunt *Rolls eyes* I hope he spills some water on himself now

 

Whataworldwhataworld

[megaplayboy]

[Lord Liaden]

Actually, I hope Trump continues his Twitter tirades. From what I've been hearing and reading, the things that seem to be making a dent with supporters of Trump's policies, making them question whether to continue backing him, are his undisciplined conduct and embarrassing remarks. You won't get many of them to change their minds about his positions that they like, but popular politics has always been more about a person's image than his or her policies. If they stop liking and trusting the man, what he says he wants to do won't really matter.

[Old Man]

Interlude:

 

 

Carry on.

[megaplayboy]

Since firing Comey made things much worse for himself, I'm pretty sure that Trump is a little bit reluctant to pull the trigger on firing Mueller or pardoning everyone, because he's not sure what happens next after that.  Pretty sure every advisor not named "Jared Kushner" is telling him not to do either one of those things.  

[Nolgroth]

Source and scope on that metric please Old Man. I mean, does that include only Federal positions or are State/Local government positions included. I am curious is all and have no opposing data. 

[megaplayboy]

I can't speak for Old Man, but I'd hazard a guess that it refers to the Federal Executive Branch.  There'd have to be a lot more convictions at the state government level.

[Tech priest support]

Does anyone else think it's insane to let a President fire a person investigating him? Is there anyone who can legally launch a criminal investigation against a President that he has no power over?

[Old Man]

The short answer to your question is "congress".

[Tech priest support]

Actually, I hope Trump continues his Twitter tirades. From what I've been hearing and reading, the things that seem to be making a dent with supporters of Trump's policies, making them question whether to continue backing him, are his undisciplined conduct and embarrassing remarks. You won't get many of them to change their minds about his positions that they like, but popular politics has always been more about a person's image than his or her policies. If they stop liking and trusting the man, what he says he wants to do won't really matter.

The thing is, trump's tweets can start real problems. In a lot of Asian culture public insults are a serious matter. Insulting that Pillsbury doughboy running NK could start something that didn't have to be started. That little putz might take a shot at SK and hide under china's skirts. A lot of people die but trump and the doughboy both get to look big and bad.