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24 minutes ago, Lucius said:

 

Thanks to the 27th amendment, it can't take effect until next congress even if it DID pass.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary explains that this amendment forbids congress from changing their own pay - for better OR worse - they can only change the pay of future congresses.

Just because it does not solve all problems now, is not a reason do finally get it done.

 

What is it with Americans and "perfect solution or not worth doing"?

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5 minutes ago, Christopher said:

Just because it does not solve all problems now, is not a reason do finally get it done.

 

What is it with Americans and "perfect solution or not worth doing"?

 

I agree it's worth doing.

 

I' admit to being dubious about whether it will get done, given who it is who has to do it.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

I can always count on a palindromedary, though, to give me tagline. Well, almost always.

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Tammy Duckworth is not pulling her punches.

 

Quote

"Does he even know that there are service members who are in harm’s way right now, watching him, looking for their commander in chief to show leadership, rather than [trying] to deflect blame?” Duckworth said. “Or that his own Pentagon says that the short-term funding plans he seems intent on pushing is actually harmful to not just the military, but to our national security?”


“I spent my entire adult life looking out for the well-being, the training, the equipping of the troops for whom I was responsible,” she continued. “Sadly, this is something that the current occupant of the Oval Office does not seem to care to do — and I will not be lectured about what our military needs by a five-deferment draft dodger.”

“And I have a message for cadet bone spurs: If you cared about our military, you'd stop baiting Kim Jong Un into a war that could put 85,000 American troops, and millions of innocent civilians, in danger."

 

 

"Cadet bone spurs".

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17 hours ago, Christopher said:

Just because it does not solve all problems now, is not a reason do finally get it done.

 

What is it with Americans and "perfect solution or not worth doing"?

 

You noticed it too? From my perspective, it is a conveniently recurring "position" used by politicians (often right-wing) to deny large financial expenditures that would help considerable numbers of people in the long term...possibly as permanent legal/societal fixtures (such as Medicare for all).

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10 minutes ago, Lord Liaden said:

At some point in the recent past "compromise" and "middle ground" became dirty words to a significant number of Americans. Most noticeably in the political class.

Somewhere around when you invented Gerrymandering and ran off with it:

 

 

However this does not explain why I keep hearing that argument from so many people that are not politicians.

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18 hours ago, Christopher said:

Just because it does not solve all problems now, is not a reason do finally get it done.

 

What is it with Americans and "perfect solution or not worth doing"?

 

You see it with pretty much any issue that requires work, as an excuse not to do it.  It seems to come up a lot when discussing climate change.

"Why should we reduce carbon dioxide emissions? (Insert country name) isn't going to do it, so our efforts won't matter."

"If you're so worried about climate change, why are you still driving a car, heating your house, and using your computer?"

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On ‎1‎/‎20‎/‎2018 at 9:11 AM, Hermit said:

Maybe it's time to pull out that old never used rule where 2/3rd the state legislatures can create an new Amendment...

my suggestion would be as long as a shut down goes on, Congressmen don't get paid either, nor may they take money from donors or special interests during that time.

 

Betcha we'd see some negotiations then

There's some dispute about what this process can achieve. Some people fear a "runaway convention" that could rewrite the Constitution from scratch. Other people say, no, it just provides an alternate route to propose an amendment. The ratification process would then proceed normally, with the same votes in Congress and in state legislatures, as if Congress proposed the amendment itself.

 

I am certainly not an expert. I merely note that this might not be easy. -- one of the fiew points where the people who claim to be experts seem to agree.

 

Dean Shomshak

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5 hours ago, Armitage said:

"If you're so worried about climate change, why are you still driving a car, heating your house, and using your computer?"

Because a certain amount of CO2 Emissions is simply required for the modern way of living and I am no intersted in causing societal collapes/comitting mass murder indirectly?

That does not mean we can not get rid of avoidable sources. In particular before the Permafrost Ground taws. Or Metahydrate comes out of the Oceans. If that happens, we are pretty much *bleep*ed.

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17 hours ago, Armitage said:

 

You see it with pretty much any issue that requires work, as an excuse not to do it.  It seems to come up a lot when discussing climate change.

"Why should we reduce carbon dioxide emissions? (Insert country name) isn't going to do it, so our efforts won't matter."

"If you're so worried about climate change, why are you still driving a car, heating your house, and using your computer?"

12 hours ago, Christopher said:

Because a certain amount of CO2 Emissions is simply required for the modern way of living and I am no intersted in causing societal collapes/comitting mass murder indirectly?

That does not mean we can not get rid of avoidable sources. In particular before the Permafrost Ground taws. Or Metahydrate comes out of the Oceans. If that happens, we are pretty much *bleep*ed.

 

Too complicated.  

 

The answer to this is "Exactly, no one of us can change what needs done, it needs co-ordinated Government action.  I need the Government to change things so that I can change my behaviour in line with everyone else".

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48 minutes ago, Doc Democracy said:

 

Too complicated.  

 

The answer to this is "Exactly, no one of us can change what needs done, it needs co-ordinated Government action.  I need the Government to change things so that I can change my behaviour in line with everyone else".

This presumes that the public believes that government action is deemed positive by the public. I've come to understand that regardless of fact, track record or evidence to the contrary... a chunk of our population believes as an act of faith in the old chestnut that the most terrifying words you could hear are "I'm from the government, and I'm here to help". Has nothing to do so far as I can tell, at this point, with anything but belief. Anything that opposes this belief will be attacked, or ridiculed, regardless of self-interest. 

 

It's terrifying that those individuals appear to have control of our government, the very institutions they despise. And shouldn't be a surprise that actually governing isn't of interest. 

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That always puzzled me, to be honest. The United States has one of the most transparent, accountable governing systems in the world, with checks and balances built in to prevent excessive abuses. The founding fathers did a very good job designing it with those priorities in mind. It was never perfect, and in times of stress, like now, it shows its limitations; but it's endured so long because they got so much right from the start.

 

Maybe the country being born out of revolution, with individual liberty and self-expression being so much of your national identity and mythology, left you distrustful of any overseeing body. Maybe the revelations of past government shady practices created an enduring suspicion in the public consciousness. Or maybe I'm missing the point altogether. :think:

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I think it often relates to the political rhetoric.  it is convenient for opposition parties to make frequent reference to the inadequacies of Government as shorthand for the inadequacies they want to paint onto their political opponents.  The constant drip-feed of criticism of the wheels of Government has the unsurprising effect that people begin to believe it is true.

 

We have had the same issue with the EU.  Domestic politicians always found the EU to be a convenient scapegoat, until they wanted to convince people that the EU was something they should want to belong to.  You do not reverse the propaganda of 40 years with a few choice words during a referendum campaign...

 

Doc

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3 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

Maybe the country being born out of revolution, with individual liberty and self-expression being so much of your national identity and mythology, left you distrustful of any overseeing body. Maybe the revelations of past government shady practices created an enduring suspicion in the public consciousness. Or maybe I'm missing the point altogether. :think:

This inability to accept a Government seems to be a really long standing US Tradition, going all the way back before the Constitution - the Articles of Confederation:

 

But the amount to wich Americans are still into that belive "Government = bad" 250 years later is borderline insane.

The Confederation could not even get the Continental Army paid or Enforce his end of the Peace Treaty with Great Britain.

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To some degree, the American mistrust of government is merely verbal. We bitch a lot, but we pay our taxes. For an institution we claim to view as incompetent or actively malign, our degree of compliance is remarkable and our expectations are high.

 

So many Tea Party members are on Social Security...

 

Dean Shomshak

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3 hours ago, Ragitsu said:

 

 

Hey, look: a Fox News video segment that isn't crap.

And Fox viewer will propably ask him to be fired for his "biased Reporting" left and right for it.

 

Sorry, but this one piece of solid reporting every other week does not get me over the fact that it is conspiracy bullshit the rest of the weeks. Fox is really working hard to make certain I never take it seriously as a source for anything - including the weather.

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Still, it might be worth it for those of us who approve to send supportive messages to Fox for this kind of reporting. If they can be persuaded that enough viewers like it and want more of it, they might strive for balance more often.

 

Hey, people have survived terminal velocity falls -- this would be less improbable.

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20 hours ago, Old Man said:

It worked perfectly, didn't it?  The Dems are caving after less than 72 hours, for "assurances" that a solution will be drafted for the Dreamers. 

 

I expected nothing less from the Democrats - it's still a move more suited for a playground than the White House and yet another thing which erodes the dignity of the office, the executive branch, and even the party associated with them.   Just like President Trump himself doing an end zone touchdown dance on twitter afterwards.

 

I would suspect, though, that if these 'assurances' aren't in motion by the next deadline and the Republican party can't get its affairs in order to get a unanimous vote that the Democrats might shut things down for a little longer.  Maybe.

 

I wonder how things are going over in the alternate world where Kasich won the nomination and election? 

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