Old Man Posted February 28, 2018 Report Share Posted February 28, 2018 Oh, and Brexit negotiations between the EU and the UK are stuck on how to handle the border between them... a border with a difficult history, since it happens to be between Ireland and Northern Ireland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
death tribble Posted February 28, 2018 Report Share Posted February 28, 2018 2 minutes ago, Old Man said: Oh, and Brexit negotiations between the EU and the UK are stuck on how to handle the border between them... a border with a difficult history, since it happens to be between Ireland and Northern Ireland. Yeah. And although the EU were prepared to have Northern Ireland in the Eu to avoid the border problem, the PM is not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Posted February 28, 2018 Report Share Posted February 28, 2018 Gee, I wonder why. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Posted February 28, 2018 Report Share Posted February 28, 2018 Sometimes you come across a news story that really captures the essence of Amurrica Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starlord Posted March 1, 2018 Report Share Posted March 1, 2018 No 'Holy Hand Grenades? Huh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted March 1, 2018 Report Share Posted March 1, 2018 To continue the look at politics in the rest of the world: As Xi Jinping Extends Power, China Braces for a New Cold War Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sociotard Posted March 1, 2018 Report Share Posted March 1, 2018 https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/02/parkland-shooting-broward-county-schools-policy-report-fewer-infractions-to-police/ The debate over the red flags that maybe could have gotten the police to stop the Florida shooter. Evidently the school was using a program to avoid putting kids in the school-to-prison pipeline. So, the FBI didn't have all the information about his discipline record when they got the tip they discounted. And there was no arrest record to stop him from buying a gun. It's a situation where I can see both sides. I wonder if there is a middle ground, where maybe schools should have authority to put flags on kids that have been disciplined, that would pop up on background checks the way arrests do. And making discipline records available to FBI and police, even without arrests. It is a dilemma. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted March 1, 2018 Report Share Posted March 1, 2018 Even if something is beneficial 99% of the time, if that 1% turns out really badly it can drown out any perception of the good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted March 1, 2018 Report Share Posted March 1, 2018 On 2/28/2018 at 7:38 PM, Sociotard said: https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/02/parkland-shooting-broward-county-schools-policy-report-fewer-infractions-to-police/ The debate over the red flags that maybe could have gotten the police to stop the Florida shooter. Evidently the school was using a program to avoid putting kids in the school-to-prison pipeline. So, the FBI didn't have all the information about his discipline record when they got the tip they discounted. And there was no arrest record to stop him from buying a gun. It's a situation where I can see both sides. I wonder if there is a middle ground, where maybe schools should have authority to put flags on kids that have been disciplined, that would pop up on background checks the way arrests do. And making discipline records available to FBI and police, even without arrests. It is a dilemma. It is not a dilemma. It is just distraction. The Video in the article lists clearly how the police there fluttershyed up. I mean 23 calls? 2 of wich explicitly referenced school shootings? Trevor Noah put it like this: "Maybe if the Deputy was better trained, he would have gone in. Maybe if the Gun Laws were not that lax, he would not have faced a AR-15 with a handgun when walking in." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sociotard Posted March 1, 2018 Report Share Posted March 1, 2018 But if none of those calls uncovered enough evidence to make an arrest, or a conviction, they wouldn't have been able to take the guns. I kind of wish I had more details on those 23 visits, just to suss out where things could have gone differently. Even an arrest isn't enough to block a background check; that takes a felony conviction or commitment to a mental institution. So, did any of his threats rise to the level of "felony"? Could he have been forcibly committed? EDIT: tricky. It looks like the tips themselves wouldn't have been enough for an arrest, certainly not enough for a conviction. But maybe it should have prompted more of an investigation. So there were laws in place that maaaybe would have stopped this with more police investigation and initiative. As for more gun laws . . . had there been a "red flag" law in place, the tipsters might have gone that route, and that might have worked. A higher age restriction for gun buys might have worked. A semiautomatic rifle ban might have changed the weapon used. (but again, 86 people died in Nice, France from a truck, and 19 died in Sagamihara, Japan from a knifing spree, compared to 17 in Parkland with an AR-15) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sociotard Posted March 1, 2018 Report Share Posted March 1, 2018 On 2/20/2018 at 9:06 PM, Sociotard said: I am conflicted. Donald Trump did something I like, but he did it in a stupid, probably illegal way. https://www.yahoo.com/news/donald-trump-directs-justice-department-211146879.html He instructed the Justice Department to start banning bump stocks. Great. But the Justice Department already said they can't do that without a bill passing Congress. So it'll be tossed with the first lawsuit. If Trump were a better leader, he'd have gotten a quick simple bill through, since his party controls both houses. So it goes. And the ban wasn't much of a fix anyway. And my brother super likes his. On 2/21/2018 at 4:48 AM, Christopher said: It is not actually illegal for the president "to order the DoJ to take the nessesary steps for". On 2/21/2018 at 8:41 AM, Sociotard said: I missed the part about "propose regulations". Just propose. So he's just asking Sessions to come up with a bill he can push through. That's fine then. Of course it remains to be seen if El Distractissimo can follow through. It looks like my first reading was correct: Quote TRUMP: I’m going to essentially write [the bump stock issue] out. We can do that with an executive order. I’m essentially going to write it out. You won’t have to worry about bump stock. Shortly, that will be gone. We can focus on other things. Frankly, I don’t know that it would be good to have it be in this bill. We’ll have that done. They’re working on it quickly. Go ahead. The whole transcript is worth a read. The President seems to be trying to get rid of bump stock sales solely through Executive Branch action, but my understanding is that it has already been ruled that a bump stock ban would require legislation and the President is wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted March 1, 2018 Report Share Posted March 1, 2018 "The President is wrong" has become almost a given for the facts in any situation. Sociotard, Pattern Ghost, Christopher and 1 other 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDU Neil Posted March 1, 2018 Report Share Posted March 1, 2018 1 hour ago, Sociotard said: So there were laws in place that maaaybe would have stopped this with more police investigation and initiative. As for more gun laws . . . had there been a "red flag" law in place, the tipsters might have gone that route, and that might have worked. A higher age restriction for gun buys might have worked. A semiautomatic rifle ban might have changed the weapon used. (but again, 86 people died in Nice, France from a truck, and 19 died in Sagamihara, Japan from a knifing spree, compared to 17 in Parkland with an AR-15) The issue is not whether another device could have killed more or less people, but a) the ease of which a device made ONLY FOR KILLING is available, b ) the sexification of the gun as an object of masculinity, c) the cultural fascination and hype of the media with this type of event, d) the pathetic myth of some kind of armed resistance to an oppressive government... all of which glorify these events and actually feed a base human instinct to lash out (especially for an underdeveloped teenage brain), making it seem like a possible option, and often the easiest option. I personally am a gun owner (pistol, shotgun), and completely in favor of much more restrictive controls and even bans on personal ownership of firearms. I feel the fundamental reason no action has been taken is that the NRA (basically a terrorist organization by this point) has made it abundantly clear that their members would actively start killing people with all those guns, if threatened with having them taken away. No administration is the one who wants to take the blame for hundreds of armed militia style insurgency and a massive rise in individual assholes crying "my dead fingers" as they shoot up their town. Even if (and it could) the US military crushed all of these uprisings, the bloodshed and constitutional crisis it would raise is certainly a high cost to pay. We are essentially hostages to the NRA and their members threat of violence in a way that is far more pervasive than any imagined oppressive government action. The call for bans on bump-stocks and picking away at specific, highly defined weapons (the AR-15 or whatever) are just distractions, and obsessions by those whose heart is in the right place, but can't figure out what else to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragitsu Posted March 1, 2018 Report Share Posted March 1, 2018 https://www.rawstory.com/2018/02/right-wing-sites-running-fake-emails-supposedly-sent-parkland-survivor-prove-anti-cnn-conspiracy-theory/ Diehard conservative firearm advocates before this story: "Ermahgad! CNN is coaching these people to conform to their own Marxist communist liberal agenda!!!11" Diehard conservative firearm advocates after this story: "What? Why are you overreacting? Stop making a big deal about nothing." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted March 1, 2018 Report Share Posted March 1, 2018 5 hours ago, Sociotard said: But if none of those calls uncovered enough evidence to make an arrest, or a conviction, they wouldn't have been able to take the guns. I kind of wish I had more details on those 23 visits, just to suss out where things could have gone differently. Even an arrest isn't enough to block a background check; that takes a felony conviction or commitment to a mental institution. So, did any of his threats rise to the level of "felony"? Could he have been forcibly committed? EDIT: tricky. It looks like the tips themselves wouldn't have been enough for an arrest, certainly not enough for a conviction. But maybe it should have prompted more of an investigation. So there were laws in place that maaaybe would have stopped this with more police investigation and initiative. As for more gun laws . . . had there been a "red flag" law in place, the tipsters might have gone that route, and that might have worked. A higher age restriction for gun buys might have worked. A semiautomatic rifle ban might have changed the weapon used. (but again, 86 people died in Nice, France from a truck, and 19 died in Sagamihara, Japan from a knifing spree, compared to 17 in Parkland with an AR-15) At the very least he could have had some meetings with the School Counselor. That way at least they could have steered him onto another path. Instead as far as we know, they did nothing. The Resource officer was informed, but eitehr did not relay it or was not taken seriously. Or maybe they could have serached his house? You know, anything to avoid this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattern Ghost Posted March 1, 2018 Report Share Posted March 1, 2018 2 hours ago, Christopher said: At the very least he could have had some meetings with the School Counselor. That way at least they could have steered him onto another path. I believe he was already expelled prior to the attack. What counseling he received prior to his expulsion, or whether it was a zero tolerance policy thing, would be interesting to know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ternaugh Posted March 2, 2018 Report Share Posted March 2, 2018 10 hours ago, RDU Neil said: The issue is not whether another device could have killed more or less people, but a) the ease of which a device made ONLY FOR KILLING is available, b ) the sexification of the gun as an object of masculinity, c) the cultural fascination and hype of the media with this type of event, d) the pathetic myth of some kind of armed resistance to an oppressive government... all of which glorify these events and actually feed a base human instinct to lash out (especially for an underdeveloped teenage brain), making it seem like a possible option, and often the easiest option. I personally am a gun owner (pistol, shotgun), and completely in favor of much more restrictive controls and even bans on personal ownership of firearms. I feel the fundamental reason no action has been taken is that the NRA (basically a terrorist organization by this point) has made it abundantly clear that their members would actively start killing people with all those guns, if threatened with having them taken away. No administration is the one who wants to take the blame for hundreds of armed militia style insurgency and a massive rise in individual assholes crying "my dead fingers" as they shoot up their town. Even if (and it could) the US military crushed all of these uprisings, the bloodshed and constitutional crisis it would raise is certainly a high cost to pay. We are essentially hostages to the NRA and their members threat of violence in a way that is far more pervasive than any imagined oppressive government action. The call for bans on bump-stocks and picking away at specific, highly defined weapons (the AR-15 or whatever) are just distractions, and obsessions by those whose heart is in the right place, but can't figure out what else to do. I just got home after a really good dinner out with a lot of friends, and my slightly sleepy thought on this post was, "Maybe we should let 'em have their guns, but they have to dress like Sean Connery from 'Zardoz'". RDU Neil, Doc Shadow and Ragitsu 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDU Neil Posted March 2, 2018 Report Share Posted March 2, 2018 7 minutes ago, Ternaugh said: I just got home after a really good dinner out with a lot of friends, and my slightly sleepy thought on this post was, "Maybe we should let 'em have their guns, but they have to dress like Sean Connery from 'Zardoz'". We are the NRA! Ternaugh and Doc Shadow 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucius Posted March 2, 2018 Report Share Posted March 2, 2018 On 2/28/2018 at 6:56 PM, Old Man said: Sometimes you come across a news story that really captures the essence of Amurrica Funny you should say that - I might have said, essence of Korea. Lucius Alexander The palindromedary says otherwise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Posted March 2, 2018 Report Share Posted March 2, 2018 3 hours ago, Ternaugh said: I just got home after a really good dinner out with a lot of friends, and my slightly sleepy thought on this post was, "Maybe we should let 'em have their guns, but they have to dress like Sean Connery from 'Zardoz'". I don't know what teachers look like where you are, but here, that wouldn't help anyone's mental stability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted March 2, 2018 Report Share Posted March 2, 2018 I think Ternaugh intended that costume for NRA members, not teachers. (I honestly wouldn't be surprised if some of them already dress like that.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDU Neil Posted March 2, 2018 Report Share Posted March 2, 2018 What the eff? https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/mar/01/trump-to-impose-tariffs-on-steel-and-aluminum-imports-in-bold-trade-move?utm_source=esp&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=Morning+briefing&utm_term=265985&subid=24646434&CMP=ema-2793 I can't... just... really? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starlord Posted March 2, 2018 Report Share Posted March 2, 2018 He said he was gonna do it...i just didn't think he would do it so...unilaterally. Disastrous idea IMO. There are things about his policies so far where I can see tiny reasons that they could work, but this...there is just no business sense at all to such wide ranging tariffs. Not to mention that it is my understanding that our steel industry has mostly rebounded and rearranged their model. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted March 2, 2018 Report Share Posted March 2, 2018 You know what's ironic? Trump has been using "unfair dumping" of cheap steel by China as his main public pretext for imposing these tariffs; but steel imports from China are a small fraction of what actually enters the US. The majority of that steel comes from Canada. And we in Canada are bracing for a big hit to our industry if a blanket tariff is imposed. Ragitsu 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted March 2, 2018 Report Share Posted March 2, 2018 1 hour ago, Starlord said: He said he was gonna do it...i just didn't think he would do it so...unilaterally. That you are still surprised by him doing stuff like that, makes you a better person then me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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