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Simon

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4 hours ago, Sociotard said:

 

C'mon Trump. You can do this. Three years of peace, no regime toppling or pre-emptive strikes. You really can. You evicerated the state department for no good reason, but you can still win my vote by just holding your isolationism. That starts by picking the right advisers.

 

Is John Bolton one of the right advisors?  lol *sob*

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4 hours ago, Cancer said:

I admire your willingness to keep your word, but I think your initial conditions were too wishfully constructed.

 

I found the initial conditions to be incredibly lax.  My initial conditions would include things like "not a serial rapist" and "not owned by Putin".  Among others.

 

I read an interesting analysis today that Mueller probably has enough of a case for obstruction that he could get a RICO indictment against the Trump family without even bothering with Russian collusion.  Interesting, because 1. Thirty states have RICO laws as well as the federal government, and 2. one of the biggest tools in RICO cases is... asset forfeiture.

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On 3/23/2018 at 4:13 AM, Old Man said:

 

I read an interesting analysis today that Mueller probably has enough of a case for obstruction that he could get a RICO indictment against the Trump family without even bothering with Russian collusion.  Interesting, because 1. Thirty states have RICO laws as well as the federal government, and 2. one of the biggest tools in RICO cases is... asset forfeiture.

 

 

I keep seeing Trump Tweeting "No Collusion!" over and over.  I realize that history is no doubt included in his general ignorance, but at some point you would think that he would remember that it wasn't involvement in Watergate that led to articles of Impeachment against Nixon, it was obstruction of the investigation of Watergate.

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5 hours ago, Armitage said:

 

 

I keep seeing Trump Tweeting "No Collusion!" over and over.  I realize that history is no doubt included in his general ignorance, but at some point you would think that he would remember that it wasn't involvement in Watergate that led to articles of Impeachment against Nixon, it was obstruction of the investigation of Watergate.

 

I strongly suspect he's oblivious to Shakespeare as well, for he surely doth protest too much.

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"We choose to go to the Moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard; because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills, because that challenge is one that we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one we intend to win, and the others, too."

 

John F. Kennedy

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Step One:  Take back the House.  (Forget the Senate this time, it's a pipe dream.)

Step Two:  Dump Two-Face Ryan and impeach Captain Clueless.  That should keep his wily ass busy for a year.

Step Three:  Give him the poetically just "You're fired!" in two more years and hopefully the worm will have turned enough to take back the Senate.

Step Four:  Use the same tactics the Pubbies stuck us with last year.  It's time to quit playing nice.

 

It's funny, on Election Day I was coming back from voting (first in line at the polling place, thank you very much) when I passed my next door neighbor walking his daughter to school, and I said "I hope there are enough reasonable people not to vote his sorry butt into office."  Too damned prophetic by half.

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2 hours ago, st barbara said:

Veterans can push for gun reform, school studants can push for gun reform, but we all know what will happen in the end.

 

Still need to keep trying.  Depressingly, school shootings have become so common that the old tactic of just stalling and waiting for the furor to die down may no longer work.

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I remember an article back in the early '80s suggesting now was clearly the time for gun control, with a left wing victim (John Lennon; killed) and a right-wing victim (James Brady; injured) both recent victims of gun violence.

 

It's a long game.  At the same time in history, people thought nothing of smoking in their offices, having a few drinks after work and driving home.  A lot of work was done, over many years, to change societal attitudes towards smoking, and impaired driving.  A similar, long-term, campaign would likely be necessary to change attitudes towards firearms.

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5 hours ago, Watchman Mk. IV said:

Step Four:  Use the same tactics the Pubbies stuck us with last year.  It's time to quit playing nice.

I hate that line of argument. It's like how Obama used Facebook data to target voters, using an app that asked Dems to give up info on their friends. So Republicans went to Cambridge Analytica and got more data in an even more skeevy way. They felt justified, with that same line of argument. 

 

Or look at Filibusters. For decades, every time the Senate changed control, the new minority party used the filibuster more than the preceding one had. Each time, the media would go on about how this was a historic high, and that the last minority party didn't use it nearly so much.

 

Nobody wants to lead from the front. Everybody thinks their cause is so just, extremism is no vice in its defence. We don't look at egregious action and believe it is wrong, but rather we envy at it and plan how we'll do the same thing, but bigger.

 

Escalation.

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Claimed to be state sponsored?  It’s not as though anyone can buy novichok at Wal-Mart. Putin did it, and wanted everyone to know it was him, just like he did with the polonium. 

 

Maybe we can make teachers carry nerve agents to defend themselves against school shootings. 

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5 hours ago, Sociotard said:

I hate that line of argument. It's like how Obama used Facebook data to target voters, using an app that asked Dems to give up info on their friends. So Republicans went to Cambridge Analytica and got more data in an even more skeevy way. They felt justified, with that same line of argument. 

 

Or look at Filibusters. For decades, every time the Senate changed control, the new minority party used the filibuster more than the preceding one had. Each time, the media would go on about how this was a historic high, and that the last minority party didn't use it nearly so much.

 

Nobody wants to lead from the front. Everybody thinks their cause is so just, extremism is no vice in its defence. We don't look at egregious action and believe it is wrong, but rather we envy at it and plan how we'll do the same thing, but bigger.

 

Escalation.

 

Right.  Because 'taking the high road' has worked so well.  With two thirds of government (local, state, and federal) now being under Republican sway.  Let's just do what hasn't worked, and keeps on not working.  That's a sure recipe for success. :sick:

 

Face it, the other side doesn't play by the Marquis of Queensbury rules.  You either do the same or you let them get away with it.

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IMHO it's a big problem in America now that no one is taking the high road, and the American public is aware of it. One major reason Donald Trump got into office is that the Americans were sick of the status quo, had lost faith that their politicians cared about anything beyond their own careers, and were desperate for something different.

 

One interesting observation I read about conservative Republican support for Trump, is that that constituency used to want a leader who had the kind of character values they respected. Now they seem willing to hold their noses over character if the leader at least supports their political agenda.

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When it comes to my online travels, I've seen a lot of support for fascism and Nazism as of late. Whether this is part of a concerted effort to disrupt/confuse American politics, a genuine surge in popularity that comes with the times or some kind of chic trolling, I don't know. All I know is that being polite and the continuing effort to appear proper isn't working. HOWEVER...this is not to say that you should stoop so low as to genuinely adopt (juvenile) terminology claimed by the opposition. It is frustrating to see liberals/progressives/left-leaning individuals throwing around "cuck" and "triggered" without the least bit of irony attached to their statements.

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1 hour ago, Watchman Mk. IV said:

 

Right.  Because 'taking the high road' has worked so well.  With two thirds of government (local, state, and federal) now being under Republican sway.  Let's just do what hasn't worked, and keeps on not working.  That's a sure recipe for success. :sick:

 

Face it, the other side doesn't play by the Marquis of Queensbury rules.  You either do the same or you let them get away with it.

 

That's what Republicans said when they were crushed in 2008. It wasn't necessary for them to stoop to any particular tactic; political tides in the USA shift all the time. That means we can keep to our highest standard, instead of crying out that "The other tribe is unethical, so we have to unethical harder!" Just be patient and do your best, and the tide will favor your tribe again.

 

Well, there is one area where "do what your opponent did" is valid: examine what concerns your opponent addressed better than you did. That's right, have the humility to say maybe Republicans didn't cheat, just played the game better. That's how Conor Lamb won his race.  He was very mild in his criticism of the President, he came out supporting gun rights, etc. He played to the constituency he was running to represent, having paid attention to how they'd voted in the past.

 

Going further, what Republican tactics are you hoping to emulate, exactly? Breaking Facebook terms of service to get targeted ad data? Inflammatory tweets?

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4 hours ago, Sociotard said:

 

That's what Republicans said when they were crushed in 2008. It wasn't necessary for them to stoop to any particular tactic; political tides in the USA shift all the time. That means we can keep to our highest standard, instead of crying out that "The other tribe is unethical, so we have to unethical harder!" Just be patient and do your best, and the tide will favor your tribe again.

 

Well, there is one area where "do what your opponent did" is valid: examine what concerns your opponent addressed better than you did. That's right, have the humility to say maybe Republicans didn't cheat, just played the game better. That's how Conor Lamb won his race.  He was very mild in his criticism of the President, he came out supporting gun rights, etc. He played to the constituency he was running to represent, having paid attention to how they'd voted in the past.

 

Going further, what Republican tactics are you hoping to emulate, exactly? Breaking Facebook terms of service to get targeted ad data? Inflammatory tweets?

 

The tactics I was referring to have to do with passing bills in Congress when only a majority is needed rather than a supermajority.  (Although I'd love to see the Senate refuse to even interview a SCOTUS appointee, even though that won't have a chance to happen for a while.)

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