Political Discussion Thread (With Rules)

[Starlord]

I'm fine with that as long as "former reality show star/real estate developers with their last name on all their properties" is at the bottom.

[Lord Liaden]

The complicating issue I see with lines 3 through 6 on that list, is that none of those are elected officials. It could be argued that handing apex power to an appointed executive is bypassing the democratic process. I'm not necessarily arguing that, but I can see the issue legitimately being raised.

 

Oh, one other thing wrong with that line of succession: Tom Hanks should be higher.

[Sociotard]

When your first reaction is "must be some Breitbart nonsense", but then it turns out to be AP and legit, it isn't good.

 

Secret Obama-era license let Iran tap dollars

 

The article notes that the action was not technically illegal, and it didn't work because US banks refused to participate. 

[DShomshak]

Today's BBC World Service had an interesting story about a small town in eastern Tennessee where ICE just rounded up 97 of the undocumented, mostly workers at the town's meat-packing plant.

 

This is Trump country. (He got something like 75% of the vote.) Nevertheless, many townsfolk are shocked and angry. The local minister is preaching sermons about loving all people regardless of native language or place of birth.

 

See, the people arrested were their neighbors and an important part of their economy. And what about all those children who now lack parents? Townsfolk have taken them in, but are fuming that you *just don't do that to kids.*

 

"Zero Tolerance" stopped being a narrative when it affected real people they actually knew.

 

Dean Shomshak

[wcw43921]

Someone should say to them--if it hasn't been said already--what I always say when something like this happens---

 

"If you voted for Trump---this is what you voted for."

 

(Not that the same thing wouldn't have happened under Clinton, but nevertheless--)

[Sociotard]

“But he did not understand the price. Mortals never do. They only see the prize, their heart's desire, their dream... But the price of getting what you want, is getting what you once wanted.”
― Neil Gaiman, Dream Country

 

I found the article, or at least one that covers the story in question:

Tennessee Town Grapples With Fear After ICE Raid Shakes Community

And here is my favorite quote:

Quote

James Brantley owns the company, Southeastern Provision. He did not respond to several requests for comment for this story. He and his family weren’t arrested despite the IRS’s suspicions that they defrauded the federal government of two and a half million dollars in taxes.

 

Brantley’s name is familiar to the locals. in 2012,  he was cited by the Department of Agriculture for using faulty scales and underpaying local ranchers. And just last month local TV news station WATE reported on contaminated well water in nearby farms believed to have originated at the slaughterhouse.

[Starlord]

There was a similar raid here in Ohio on Tuesday involving over 100 people

[Lord Liaden]

Giuliani: Kim Jong Un got 'on his hands and knees and begged' for summit

 

What a monumental imbecile. Face is of great importance in Oriental society, and Kim is even more sensitive to it than most. If it gets spread around that Kim "begged" for a summit, that practically guarantees he'll kill any chance for it. ?

[Pattern Ghost]

They should really consider fitting Giuliani with a muzzle.

[Old Man]

I was thinking ball gag, but I’m not picky. 

[Lord Liaden]

Trump must like him because they're so alike -- loud, brash, and impulsive.

[Ternaugh]

7 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

Trump must like him because they're so alike -- loud, brash, and impulsive.

 

[RDU Neil]

I really hope Malcolm Jenkins doesn't turn out to be some domestic abuser or something awful, 'cause right now he is my hero.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/jun/06/malcolm-jenkins-signs-silence-nfl-protest-movement?utm_source=esp&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=GU+Today+USA+-+Collections+2017&utm_term=277429&subid=24646434&CMP=GT_US_collection

[RDU Neil]

Also... some really excellent analysis...

 

https://theconversation.com/4-charts-showing-why-putting-tariffs-on-your-friends-is-a-bad-idea-97582?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Latest from The Conversation for June 6 2018 - 103489118&utm_content=Latest from The Conversation for June 6 2018 - 103489118+Version+A+CID_f849697fb722bfef259fe7ac6b882460&utm_source=campaign_monitor_us&utm_term=uses four charts

[pinecone]

2 hours ago, RDU Neil said:

I really hope Malcolm Jenkins doesn't turn out to be some domestic abuser or something awful, 'cause right now he is my hero.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/jun/06/malcolm-jenkins-signs-silence-nfl-protest-movement?utm_source=esp&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=GU+Today+USA+-+Collections+2017&utm_term=277429&subid=24646434&CMP=GT_US_collection

Well, don't worry too much. It is actually "OK" for a hero to be mortal. We all just tend to forget that.

[Lord Liaden]

Eh, little flaws are excusable. "Heroic" and "awful" actions pretty much cancel each other out.

[pinecone]

5 minutes ago, Lord Liaden said:

Eh, little flaws are excusable. "Heroic" and "awful" actions pretty much cancel each other out.

Well, I don't feel that way, a persons failings are things alone. I admire Martin Luther King for his courage, and convictions. The fact that he may have played around, violating his vows does not lessen his good. Audy Murphy was not the best citizen ever, but his bravery is undiminished. (etc, et all  )

[Hermit]

The more the tariffs' thing comes into play, the more I'm embarrassed. Not that I think all tariff's are bad, but these tarrifs are born of rationale regarding war and national defense? SERIOUSLY, what the....

 

We're doing this to Canada because of National Security?

1) The Term "National Security" has pretty much officially lost any meaning or credibility with this stunt if it hadn't already.

2) It's BLEEPING Canada! We take shots at each other, we joke, we sometimes grumble a bit about the other, but they're pretty much the best neighbors a country could ever be hoped to be blessed with on its northern border! They've had our backs more times than I care to count. Many Americans have family up there, and vice versa. And Coworkers and friends and so on. They're so much like us  in so many ways that Europeans often confuse them for Americans (Not nice, Euro guys, don't do that, it shakes them up terribly). They're peaceful (Barring , I am told, certain strong convictions on Hockey?) and unless there's a fight over some dead pig on an island again they are particularly peaceful with us.

3) They're a successful democracy. Aren't we supposed to ... you know, give points for that ? Lord knows we may fall out of that category ourselves. But seriously, shafting dictatorships, punishing autocracies, and boycotting goods from Putintania, I could understand. But while we pride ourselves on carrying the torch of liberty blazing for all the world to see, Canada has it's own more eco-friendly (and less likely to draw mosquitoes) lantern of freedoms.

 

God will punish America for its treatment of it's good neighbor, in fact, Justin Bieber is probably going to cut three more albums and move to Texas.

 

 

Good work, Trump. You ####weed

 

 

 

 

[csyphrett]

The thing about the town being upset because their 75 guys got arrested is the same as the woman's husband getting deported after being arrested at his restaurant.

 

I voted for Trump. I didn't think this would happen.

 

As someone once said

Leopard, meet face. Face, meet leopard.

CES    

[BoloOfEarth]

I'm reminded of a time shortly after Rick Snyder was elected governor of Michigan.  I belong to a service organization which in our town is mainly composed of male retirees.  (At age 53, I'm considered one of the 'young ones.')  And most of them are very staunch Republicans, who of course voted for Snyder and were gleeful when he won the election (especially since so many were grousing about Obama being president).

 

Prior to 2011 (when Snyder was elected) pension income in Michigan was tax-exempt up to about $90,000.  However, one of the things Snyder pushed through in his first year of office was changes to the budget and state tax laws that began taxing pensions.  (Not surprisingly, this was coupled with major tax cuts to businesses.)

 

When the taxation of pensions was announced, you never heard such grousing as what came out of those guys who had just been celebrating Snyder's election.  I was immediately thinking, "Really?  You didn't see this coming a mile away?  Wow, you must not have been paying attention!"

 

As to Trump and mass arrests / deportations -- I'm shocked that anybody didn't think that would happen if he got elected.  It's not like this came out of left field.  A huge chunk of Dolt 45's election rhetoric was about those eeeeeevil immigrants.  Murderers and rapists and pickpockets, each and every one.  Build The Wall!  (sigh)  Wasn't anybody paying attention?

[RDU Neil]

7 minutes ago, BoloOfEarth said:

I'm reminded of a time shortly after Rick Snyder was elected governor of Michigan.  I belong to a service organization which in our town is mainly composed of male retirees.  (At age 53, I'm considered one of the 'young ones.')  And most of them are very staunch Republicans, who of course voted for Snyder and were gleeful when he won the election (especially since so many were grousing about Obama being president).

 

Prior to 2011 (when Snyder was elected) pension income in Michigan was tax-exempt up to about $90,000.  However, one of the things Snyder pushed through in his first year of office was changes to the budget and state tax laws that began taxing pensions.  (Not surprisingly, this was coupled with major tax cuts to businesses.)

 

When the taxation of pensions was announced, you never heard such grousing as what came out of those guys who had just been celebrating Snyder's election.  I was immediately thinking, "Really?  You didn't see this coming a mile away?  Wow, you must not have been paying attention!"

 

As to Trump and mass arrests / deportations -- I'm shocked that anybody didn't think that would happen if he got elected.  It's not like this came out of left field.  A huge chunk of Dolt 45's election rhetoric was about those eeeeeevil immigrants.  Murderers and rapists and pickpockets, each and every one.  Build The Wall!  (sigh)  Wasn't anybody paying attention?

 

I see you are a Michigander as well. It is a rough state to live in this past decade. Unfortunately it feels that Snyder will continue to survive the horrible machinations of his administration. It feels like he's skated on everything, including Flint, and we are doomed to a dismantling of the state government in any kind of way that truly serves the constituents, and not just business issues.

[BoloOfEarth]

Yep, lived in Michigan all my life (well, apart from one intolerable month spent in Florida doing asphalt sealcoating in July of 1983).  I've been incredibly lucky, even over the past decade, but I realize I'm the exception rather than the rule.  I'd have to be blind or willfully ignorant to think everything is sunshine and puppies here for everybody.  And also blind or willfully ignorant to think that always putting business interests above the citizenry is going to make things better for the people.

[Dr.Device]

On 6/4/2018 at 8:57 PM, Hermit said:

*Looks for part where I said Free Speech was absolute*

Mmm nope.

Nada.

ZIp.

 

*Looks for where I used quotation marks to suggest an exact quote*

Mmm nope.

Nada.

Zip.

 

That said. 

Ranxerox, did you just compare the 'liberty to drive' with Freedom of Speech? Only one of these is in the bill of rights so..no. 

 However, you do have a fair point about the crisis of confidence being somewhat understandable. Again, I respect much of what the ACLU does and has done. So yes, it's alarming when Crisis of conscience included telling its members to toe the line as the article suggested.

 

Dr. Device, I cannot claim to understand your struggles. No way, no how. That said, I don't think tolerating hate speech is the same as just treating it as the opposite of non-hate speech. I think it exposes the hate to the light. Will it convert the hateful? Probably not, but it will expose their true nature to those who were indifferent to certain dangers. Sunshine and Fresh air, so to speak, can be the best way to make folks aware we have a roach..pardon me, a bigot problem.  For some folks, I'm sure it is obvious. But there are far too many that seem clueless. IMO

 

I don't believe Freedom of Speech means surrender.  Rather the opposite, to me, it is when we burn down what made us great in order to protect what we have that endangers us. If we must err, I want us to err on the side of liberty rather than destroying the liberties out of fear that someone else might.

 

But that is my take on it. Others disagree. 

 

I think we ALL agree Nazis are A-holes.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sorry that I implied that you were a free speech absolutist. I was just trying to make the point that there are limits, and we, as a society get to choose where those limits are.

 

I used to believe in the whole "sunlight is the best disinfectant" (not quoting anyone here, that I know of) idea. But seeing the surge is white nationalism and other forms of open bigotry has gone a long way to convincing me it's just not true. People see these ideas out there, hear the president of the *%^&$ United States talking about there being "good people on both sides" when the Nazis marched in Charlottesville, see the New York Times running story after story about dapper Nazis, and it starts to permeate the air. Soak in. Fester.

 

Something has to give, or we really could go the way of Nazi Germany.

 

I don't really fear for myself.  Since I've come out, being trans really isn't a struggle for me. It's awesome. I get to be myself after fifty-two years of hiding. There is no force on this planet that will send me back into hiding, and if I end up suffering because of that, nothing can take away the fact that I'll do it as myself. But  I fear for all my LGBTQ siblings. And I'm sad for the ones who are afraid to be themselves because of the environment of hate that is blooming, fanned by the current administration.  I fear for every visible minority, because if the far right continues to gain power in this country, none of them are safe.

 

So, it's not that I'm going to try to get Nazis outlawed, but I just don't see them as worth spending the money to defend. I am a donor to the ACLU. I think they do a lot of great work. But the idea of my money going to defend people who not only would gladly see me dead, but are actually striving to make that happen, makes me almost physically ill. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Funk Thompson]

I have to say, after a time away, and I could be wrong...  but it is so very refreshing to find that the political thread here on HEROGames.com seems...  almost completely devoid of anyone defending the current moving train wreck we find ourselves "led" by.

[Lord Liaden]

3 hours ago, pinecone said:

Well, I don't feel that way, a persons failings are things alone. I admire Martin Luther King for his courage, and convictions. The fact that he may have played around, violating his vows does not lessen his good. Audy Murphy was not the best citizen ever, but his bravery is undiminished. (etc, et all  )

 

Hence why I specified "awful," the same term RDU Neil used, along with the example of "domestic abuser."