Political Discussion Thread (With Rules)

[Lord Liaden]

I for one find it quite exciting to see all these diverse candidates throwing their hats in the ring, even this early. There's a real opportunity for the cream to rise to the surface in this process, to find a candidate who can inspire the public like Obama did. That is, if the Democratic Party establishment can avoid repeating the mistake of anointing the candidate they feel comfortable with, rather than one who resonates with the public.

[Hermit]

37 minutes ago, Lord Liaden said:

I for one find it quite exciting to see all these diverse candidates throwing their hats in the ring, even this early. There's a real opportunity for the cream to rise to the surface in this process, to find a candidate who can inspire the public like Obama did. That is, if the Democratic Party establishment can avoid repeating the mistake of anointing the candidate they feel comfortable with, rather than one who resonates with the public.

 

Got any favorites sticking their heads up? 

[Lord Liaden]

Lots of horses look good before they hit the gate. The race is what will tell. What I like is that while we have familiar veterans such as Elizabeth Warren, we're also getting fresh blood like Beto O'Rourke. The upcoming campaigns and debates could help sort out a clear, positive message and platform for the eventual candidate to carry forward.

[DShomshak]

Washington State governor Jay Inslee is still playing it coy (or maybe dithering). As a Washingtonian, it would be nice to see our governor in the White House. But Inslee can't possibly win. See, he's earnest, experienced, reasonalby competent and intelligent... but not charismatic. A Democrat in the mold of Walter Mondale, Michael Dukakis, Al Gore, John Kerry and other election-losers. The old saying is that Republicans fall in line, but Democrats need to fall in love. And the party apparatus keeps producing dull policy wonks.

 

(It doesn't help that Inslee's signature issue is climate change, on which he has consistently failed to achieve anything even in a deep blue state. Two of his carbon tax proposals have now failed at the ballot box. And polls establish pretty clearly that while a majority of Americans say climate change is a problem, they will not tolerate even the slightest possibility of economic hardship in order to do anything about it.)

 

Dean Shomshak

[Old Man]

Deep blue state?  My understanding of Washington is that it's a deep blue King County surrounded by Greater Idaho.  What changed?

[Lord Liaden]

21 minutes ago, DShomshak said:

(It doesn't help that Inslee's signature issue is climate change, on which he has consistently failed to achieve anything even in a deep blue state. Two of his carbon tax proposals have now failed at the ballot box. And polls establish pretty clearly that while a majority of Americans say climate change is a problem, they will not tolerate even the slightest possibility of economic hardship in order to do anything about it.)

 

Dean Shomshak

 

Maybe it will help to keep connecting climate change to the increasing weather extremes it's exacerbating. Like the current polar vortex displacement over North America. A pain the public can relate to as much as economic pain.

[DShomshak]

1 hour ago, Old Man said:

Deep blue state?  My understanding of Washington is that it's a deep blue King County surrounded by Greater Idaho.  What changed?

Well, actually that's true. But King, Pierce and Snohomish Counties hold enough population that they now overbalance the rest of the state. Dems hold every statewide office but one, IIRC, and both legislative houses. So if Washington can't pass a carbon tax, the odds don't look great for anywhere else.

Oddly, the state's latest gun control initiative passed in every county, even in conservative Eastern Washington. So it's easier to pass gun control than a carbon tax.

 

Dean Shomshak

[Pattern Ghost]

3 hours ago, DShomshak said:

reasonalby competent and intelligent

 

We must live in alternate Washingtons.

[Old Man]

All politics is local, and up close, local politicians rarely look competent or intelligent.  Our governor is Just A Guy; he does okay but his main skills are not pissing people off and not being GOP.*  One of Obama's big advantages was that he was a relative unknown even in Illinois, allowing him to create a more national persona.  Historically, senators rarely make it to the presidency because they're usually in office too long to avoid building up a voting record and making enemies.

 

And for all that this is a deep blue state, it's important to remember that in a lot of ways it's a deep blue Blue Dog state; the most progressive new legislation on the books is a gradual minimum wage increase. 

 

 

* There may be some overlap between these two skills.

[Vondy]

7 hours ago, DShomshak said:

Well, actually that's true. But King, Pierce and Snohomish Counties hold enough population that they now overbalance the rest of the state. Dems hold every statewide office but one, IIRC, and both legislative houses. So if Washington can't pass a carbon tax, the odds don't look great for anywhere else.

 

Some might look at a situation in which the same 10-12 counties (out of 39) consistently decide who our governors will be introduces inequalities of representation and disincentivizes compromise and cooperation. Inslee carried: 10. We've had 5 two term governors from the same party in a row.  That's right: 40 years running.

 

Senator Cantwell won 12 counties in 2018. She carried all 10 counties Inslee did plus Callum and Clark... both on the West side of the mountains. Senator Murray won the same 12 counties. 

 

In other words, people 29 counties do not have a governor who carried their county and people in 27 counties do not have a Senator who carried their county. That has been true +/- a county or two for the people in those counties for almost two decades (senators). Cantwell only spent one day in Eastern Washington during the 2018 campaign for fast photo-ops in Yakima and the Tri-Cities.

 

We do not have an electoral college at the state level, or a way of ensuring our politicians can't just ignore most of the state, its problems, and ways of living, when running for elections or pushing policy decisions. Pugetopolis calls the shots for everyone, always, in Washington.

 

Quote

Oddly, the state's latest gun control initiative passed in every county, even in conservative Eastern Washington. So it's easier to pass gun control than a carbon tax.

 

 

In "every county?" It carried a majority of votes in 12 of 39 counties... the same ones that voted for Cantwell and Murray. Our initiative system bypasses the check of the state senate and legislative process and allows for the tyranny of the majority. It is inconsistent with our representative republican system of government.

 

Now, before you assume "That Dave is a right-wing nut" I will point out that I voted for Derek Kilmer (D) for Congress and Jay Inslee (D) for governor and Hutchinson (R) for senate. At the state level, I voted for two Republicans and one Democrat for the legislature. All won. That I'm represented at several levels of government does not mean a great many of my fellow Washingtonians have recourse to anyone other than their state representatives, who can be cut out of the process by popular initiative. 

 

That. Is. Not. Right.

 

 

[Cygnia]

Revealed: FBI investigated civil rights group as 'terrorism' threat and viewed KKK as victims

[DShomshak]

13 hours ago, Vondy said:

In "every county?" It carried a majority of votes in 12 of 39 counties... the same ones that voted for Cantwell and Murray. Our initiative system bypasses the check of the state senate and legislative process and allows for the tyranny of the majority. It is inconsistent with our representative republican system of government

Mea culpa; I tossed off a factoid I'd heard or read (and might have misunderstood at that) and did not check the numbers. I apologize for passing along... <gasp> Fake News!

I don't say that it's right that Pugetopolis can so completely dominate state politics, but it's a fact that will not change any time soon.

Washington state initiatives are a whole other rant. Suffice to say they've given me a fervent belief that the Founders were right in avoiding direct democracy. But they do sometimes give clues where voters' minds are at. In this case, even Pugetopolis won't back a carbon tax enough to ram it through.

@Pattern Ghost: Yes, reasonably competent and intelligent, in that he seems able to speak in coherent sentences. Sometimes. And he seems to have some notion how government works. Sometimes. It's a low bar.?

 

Dean Shomshak

[Pattern Ghost]

8 hours ago, DShomshak said:

Washington state initiatives are a whole other rant. Suffice to say they've given me a fervent belief that the Founders were right in avoiding direct democracy. But they do sometimes give clues where voters' minds are at.

 

They demonstrate that voters can be manipulated by a small number of people with funding. Most voters' minds aren't really in the game, after all.

[Badger]

Well, here in VA, the Dem Gov Ralph Northam, has not had a good week.

[Old Man]

Dumbass shouldn't even have run with that particular skeleton in his closet.

[megaplayboy]

On 2/1/2019 at 12:35 AM, Vondy said:

 

Some might look at a situation in which the same 10-12 counties (out of 39) consistently decide who our governors will be introduces inequalities of representation and disincentivizes compromise and cooperation. Inslee carried: 10. We've had 5 two term governors from the same party in a row.  That's right: 40 years running.

 

Senator Cantwell won 12 counties in 2018. She carried all 10 counties Inslee did plus Callum and Clark... both on the West side of the mountains. Senator Murray won the same 12 counties. 

 

In other words, people 29 counties do not have a governor who carried their county and people in 27 counties do not have a Senator who carried their county. That has been true +/- a county or two for the people in those counties for almost two decades (senators). Cantwell only spent one day in Eastern Washington during the 2018 campaign for fast photo-ops in Yakima and the Tri-Cities.

 

We do not have an electoral college at the state level, or a way of ensuring our politicians can't just ignore most of the state, its problems, and ways of living, when running for elections or pushing policy decisions. Pugetopolis calls the shots for everyone, always, in Washington.

 

 

In "every county?" It carried a majority of votes in 12 of 39 counties... the same ones that voted for Cantwell and Murray. Our initiative system bypasses the check of the state senate and legislative process and allows for the tyranny of the majority. It is inconsistent with our representative republican system of government.

 

Now, before you assume "That Dave is a right-wing nut" I will point out that I voted for Derek Kilmer (D) for Congress and Jay Inslee (D) for governor and Hutchinson (R) for senate. At the state level, I voted for two Republicans and one Democrat for the legislature. All won. That I'm represented at several levels of government does not mean a great many of my fellow Washingtonians have recourse to anyone other than their state representatives, who can be cut out of the process by popular initiative. 

 

That. Is. Not. Right.

 

 

Well, a few observations:

1. You still have local government--municipal and county--and they have a fair degree of control/influence over localized policy and its enforcement.   I think there's a good argument for devolving some powers from states to localities.

2. One option: if you can't beat 'em, infiltrate them.  I assume that the state lege seats first have party primaries before the general election,  yes? Run conservative Dem candidates focused on local issues in the primaries, and bring in crossover R voters who switch in order to help this happen.  Then form a swing vote group in the state lege to ensure that rural communities and local constituencies are not ignored.

[Badger]

More fun in VA, the Lt. Gov, may or may not have committed sexual assault in the past.

 

So, I guess this means for the top 2 officials in VA, we voted for a racist and a rapist.

[Pariah]

A good man (or woman) is hard to find, it seems.

[BoloOfEarth]

8 hours ago, Badger said:

More fun in VA, the Lt. Gov, may or may not have committed sexual assault in the past.

 

So, I guess this means for the top 2 officials in VA, we voted for a racist and a rapist.

 

For some reason, I'm having flashbacks to the scene in Life of Brian where the crowd is making fun of Pontius Pilate's speech impediment (inability to say R's).

 

Welease Wodewick!  He's a wobber!  And a wapist!

[L. Marcus]

And a pickpocket!

[mojo_bones]

Rapist is a pretty strong word that you might not want to throw around casually.

[Starlord]

Don't worry, England, Trump can solve all your problems too

[Lord Liaden]

Sure, if they want the UK and Ireland to declare war.

[Hermit]

7 minutes ago, Lord Liaden said:

Sure, if they want the UK and Ireland to declare war.

"What, again?" Rocky the Squirrel

 

(Which, actually fits, given that character having to put up with Russian interference)

 

[Badger]

And the VA atty general, felt left out, and volunteered info that he dressed up in black face in college.  I hope their are pictures then, as I have no idea why he would be dumb enough to admit this.