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Political Discussion Thread (With Rules)

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29 minutes ago, Old Man said:

I have yet to see conclusive evidence that Warren intentionally misrepresented her race for personal gain.  But more to the point, on the spectrum of wrongdoing, checking the wrong racial box on an application is surely closer to a speeding ticket than, say, dodging the draft, or sexual assault. 

 

Plenty of tribal members would disagree on the latter part. As for proof, it seems evident to me that she's been playing off her "family story" for gain at least since the start of her teaching career and all of her political career. We'll have to agree to disagree on that one.

 

31 minutes ago, Old Man said:

Warren's mishandling of her race is certainly disappointing, and character is a factor in any election.  But it's only one factor.  I have no illusions that anyone in America, let alone American politics, is going to have a squeaky clean record.

 

Agreed on this point, as I've said before.

 

32 minutes ago, Old Man said:

Warren has at least reached out to Native American organizations on this issue, which is more than most politicians do. 

 

After being played by Trump and having the DNA test backfire to the degree that it endangers her chances at nomination. She's had ample opportunities over the years to reach out over the issue and has not. I doubt her sincerity at this point.

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6 minutes ago, Pattern Ghost said:

 

Compared to Trump, what Nixon did was trivial. I'll restate my position on Warren, in case it wasn't clear: She gets my vote over Trump if it comes to it, but not my first primary choice. 

Which is fine, I guess, though as has been stated, you will find similar or comparable flaws among most of the major candidates.  Harris has issues related to her conduct as a prosecutor and AG.  Klobuchar has issues with how she treats her subordinates.  Biden...dear lord, where to start?  Sanders has an oppo file a foot thick.  Booker is tainted by association with Wall Street and charter schools.  Tulsi Gabbard has so many issues she arguably is already disqualified.  

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51 minutes ago, megaplayboy said:

Which is fine, I guess, though as has been stated, you will find similar or comparable flaws among most of the major candidates.  Harris has issues related to her conduct as a prosecutor and AG.  Klobuchar has issues with how she treats her subordinates.  Biden...dear lord, where to start?  Sanders has an oppo file a foot thick.  Booker is tainted by association with Wall Street and charter schools.  Tulsi Gabbard has so many issues she arguably is already disqualified.   

 

Yeah, isn't it great to have so many choices? It's getting hard to decide who's not as bad as the next candidate. :D

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1 hour ago, Dr.Device said:

Republican Congressman Matt Gaetz commits felony obstruction of justice

 

Yeah, I saw that.  Couldn't happen to a nicer Floridian.  He's already been permabanned from Twitter and that is by far the least of his worries today.

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Possibly relevant and of interest: Today, the radio program Marketplace began a three-part series about the Great Recession. Specifically, why did no one go to jail for massive and blatant fraud and other financial malfeasance? You can hear all three parts on the show's website, marketplace.org.

 

Dean Shomshak

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Some highlights from Cohen's leaked statement:

 

Quote

1. He has the personal check Trump used to reimburse him for paying paying hush money in violation of campaign finance laws.  ["Stupid Watergate"]
2. He has financial statements from 2011-2013 given to Deutsche Bank for the loans Trump Org was getting. The last legit loans they ever got. They're almost certainly going to be falsified.
3. Repeated communication about Trump Moscow during the entire election while he was repeatedly denying looking for a hotel there.
4. Possible evidence of Trump's personal lawyers suborning perjury to Congress by editing Cohen's statements before they were handed over.
5. To my knowledge, the first official, public document that explicitly says "Individual 1 is Donald Trump".
6. Direct communication with Stone about Wikileaks and the Clinton emails.
7. Trump telling Cohen that Junior is an idiot and never does anything on his own, essentially undermining any claims that Junior did anything on his own.

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16 hours ago, Old Man said:

I have yet to see conclusive evidence that Warren intentionally misrepresented her race for personal gain. 

 

As an outsider, where none of the political heat reaches, this looks to me the key aspect.  If there is a strong family narrative of native American heritage then she may have a legitimate belief that she had that heritage.  Indeed, if you were able to go back through her ancestry in detail, the story might even be true.  All that, to my knowledge, been proven is that there is no DNA evidence to substantiate this.  It would be entirely possible for both things to be true.

 

I get 50% of my genes from each parent, that is mostly true of everyone.  From my mother's mother I could have anything from 0 to 50% of her DNA.  I might have randomly picked up every gene that my mother's mother passed to her or I might have randomly picked up every gene that my mother's father passed to her.  It is likely that I have a mix but there is no guarantee of such.  At every generation, there is the chance for ancestral heritage, even if it is reasonably recent, to vanish from the gene pool and thus from evidence such as DNA tests.

 

People have too much faith in DNA stuff especially those heritage testing things that claim to tell you where your ancestors came from (while slowly compiling their own DNA databases that will be used for enriching someone (but not you) in years to come).  Did ticking that box differ from her family stories?  Did it advantage her?  Did she knowingly tell a lie?  These are (to me) the most pertinent questions...

 

Doc  

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10 hours ago, Starlord said:

 

Forgotten? But I built this 50foot tall statue of a dude with a manbun and a giant apple tablet  with a plaque  that reads "Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!'"

I mean, that stuff is FOREVER

 

 

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22 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

Sometimes it feels like the whole world is in a spiraling nose dive. :(

 

 

My respected peer from the far north, you have told me that America is resilient, and it is tough and my nation will yet make it through Trump and our other troubles. Even when we were feeling very defeatist.

Let me return the favor...

Where Britain Prevails

And America rises!

There's Canada getting things done more quietly. The moose block the traffic of wicked and kind alike, the snow falls on the rich and poor with little concern for economic state... the bags of milk that freak your southern neighbors out (And thus add to the flavor no doubt) continue on. Witty words continue to trickle down onto the modern pen and paper to delight the television masses , crowds cheer a small puck skittering on the ice, and corruption aside, troubles aside, Canadians continue to get the job done. Outnumbered, Outgunned, but rarely outclassed, they wear their humble maple leaf inside their hearts if not always over them. They strive to make their nation a Mosaic , then sigh as Lenny or Pierre go a bit too free form (DAMN IT LENNY! Quebec we understand but we thought we could count on Alberta to behave!)  with the art. But they trudge on, the soldier on, they earn their loonies, love their families, and sing Tim Horton's praises even if they don't go there because..well, damnit it, Canada. They'll deal with political scandals, yahoos, and morons in power just like every other democracy, but hold to a quiet optimism that next decade, they won't screw up in the same old ways, it'l lbe brand NEW Screw ups that occur.

And that is progress of a sort they can accept.

Utopia? 

Never happen.

Heaven? Well, that's your right to believe in or not.

But Canada? Canada rolls up it's plaid sleeves (Having been forced in this bad scenario to all dress like lumberjacks) and gets on to work keeping the snow clear and slowly improving what they got..while waiting patiently for the moose of '#### happens' to clear the path so they can resume.

 

Canada will make it. It has survived sharing a blanket with an elephant that tosses in its sleep for quite a while. It has dealt with an often contrary Mother nation that ignores it or calls it to go hours out of it's way to pick up something would you dear?  It takes in the huddled masses then sighs as they keep huddling like a Middle School chaperone trying to get the girls and boys to maybe dance together to some really wonderful songs by Rush... come on, you kids have heard of Rush right?

 

Canada is not the world, and the world is not Canada, but if one nation has a chance of acting as a flotation device in this sea of insanity we seem to be plunging into, I would put money on Canada fitting that niche.

And if Canada does it, maybe other countries will go "I can do it too" and bob to the surface as well... until each, inspired by the example, will make its way clear.

 

Of course, on behalf of America, if and when that happens, we'll claim we were the ones who take the credit for it. It's our thang and the world owes us after saving their asses from WW... (Checks date) Oh my god has it been that long? Okay, yeah, that excuse is getting thin.  ;)

Anyway... you're not doing it for the glory, you're Canada. But do it I think you will

 

 

 

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For another bit of semi-silliness: On today's "Week in Review" program on KUOW-FM, host Bill Radke said Michael Cohen's "don't become me" warning to Republicans reminded him of Jacob Marley to Scrooge: "These are the chains I forged in life!" Which led to a bit more "A Christmas Carol" riffing.

 

Dean Shomshak

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Oh, and it's official: Washington state governor Jay Inslee is running for President, to the surprise of no one who had already heard of him. Okay, so he's the first governor to declare. But CNN says he's polling at 0%. And he said he's making combating climate change the centerpiece of his campaign. Wow, this is sure to go nowhere fast.

 

Dean Shomshak

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19 hours ago, DShomshak said:

Oh, and it's official: Washington state governor Jay Inslee is running for President, to the surprise of no one who had already heard of him. Okay, so he's the first governor to declare. But CNN says he's polling at 0%. And he said he's making combating climate change the centerpiece of his campaign. Wow, this is sure to go nowhere fast.

 

Dean Shomshak

 

 

At least Jay Inslee has the most interesting name so far.

 

The Urban Dictionary defines "slee" as "A drunk slut who is often extremely wasted and is always caught surrounded by members of the opposite sex."

 

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Slee

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Possibly of interest: The March, 2019 Scientific American has an article on "Why We Believe Conspiriacy Theories." The title is not accurate: It's really about the conditions that predispose people to believe conspiracy theories, though the underlying psychology is implied. In brief, conspiranoia is triggered by anxiety and loss of control. Not a surpsie, that. I was more interested to learn that people tend to believe multiple conspiracy theories, in a worldview in which nothing is true and everything is possible: As one of the journal articles cited put it in its title, "NASA Faked the Moon Landing -- Therefore, (Climate) Science Is a Hoax." But apparently conspiranoids are not quite so immune to debunking as some studies showed: As long as you can avoid challenge to a person's self-respect, it is sometimes possible to nudge people into reasoning out that a conspiracy theory is hogwash.

 

Dean Shomshak

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1 hour ago, DShomshak said:

Possibly of interest: The March, 2019 Scientific American has an article on "Why We Believe Conspiriacy Theories." The title is not accurate: It's really about the conditions that predispose people to believe conspiracy theories, though the underlying psychology is implied. In brief, conspiranoia is triggered by anxiety and loss of control. Not a surpsie, that. I was more interested to learn that people tend to believe multiple conspiracy theories, in a worldview in which nothing is true and everything is possible: As one of the journal articles cited put it in its title, "NASA Faked the Moon Landing -- Therefore, (Climate) Science Is a Hoax." But apparently conspiranoids are not quite so immune to debunking as some studies showed: As long as you can avoid challenge to a person's self-respect, it is sometimes possible to nudge people into reasoning out that a conspiracy theory is hogwash.

 

Dean Shomshak

 

That's what I've heard as well, it is better to say "The folks who told you X are wrong" rather than to say "YOU are wrong for believing X"

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