Political Discussion Thread (With Rules)

[DShomshak]

4 hours ago, Pattern Ghost said:

 

The numbers are still impressive, if in a bad way.

I'm at the library now, so I was able to check the On the Media transcript:

 

I thought I might have conflated WW2 with casualties from the Philippine-Amnerican War, so I first checked that: Wikipedia gives estimated Filipino casualties of at least 200,000, ranging up to 3 million, but these all include famine and disease (esp. a cholera epidemic). But no, Immerwahr did mean WW2:

 

DANIEL IMMERWAHR: That's right. So one of the more dramatic events in World War II is the Japanese conquest of the Philippines. And this becomes the single bloodiest thing ever to happen on U.S. soil. World War II in the Philippines ultimately kills 1.5 million people.

BROOKE GLADSTONE: Wow.

DANIEL IMMERWAHR: About 1 million of whom are Filipinos or U.S. nationals. That's two civil wars.

 

I don't know where he gets his numbers, since I haven't read his book. As the PAW shows, estimates can vary. But yeah, it doesn't have to be exactly twice the Civil War to be deep in "Holy Crap" territory.

 

Dean Shomshak

[Cygnia]

Bang Bros Bought a Huge Porn Doxing Forum and Set Fire to It

[CrosshairCollie]

On 8/28/2019 at 3:25 PM, wcw43921 said:

I doubt he realizes that.  More likely he believes, "I'm President!  I'm the law of the land!  I should be able to pardon anyone, anytime!"

"When the President does it, it's not illegal"?  Sounds about right.  Our entitled crybaby-in-chief thinks the entire world should bow and scrape to him.

[Lord Liaden]

1 hour ago, CrosshairCollie said:

"When the President does it, it's not illegal"?  Sounds about right.  Our entitled crybaby-in-chief thinks the entire world should bow and scrape to him.

 

I remember when Donald Trump attended his first NATO conference. The other alliance leaders treated him with the deference due his office, which Trump must have interpreted as weakness, because he then infamously tried to bully them. Now world leaders have learned to avoid engaging with him as much as possible, freezing him out of policy decisions (most of which he neither knows nor cares about anyway).

 

Of course, when Trump the pretend-alpha male runs into a true alpha like Vladimir Putin, the Donald fawns over him like a lovesick schoolgirl.

[Old Man]

There might be other reasons for his deference to Putin.  Like the recent revelation that Russian oligarchs cosigned Deutsche Bank's loans to him.

[Lord Liaden]

Good point; but Trump behaves the same way in the presence of Kim Jong Un, and Xi Jinping. True political sharks, not a bloated grouper.

[Lord Liaden]

1 hour ago, Old Man said:

There might be other reasons for his deference to Putin.  Like the recent revelation that Russian oligarchs cosigned Deutsche Bank's loans to him.

 

I've learned that that allegation has since been walked back: https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/newspolitics/trump-tears-into-lawrence-odonnell-media-over-totally-false-russia-report-all-apologize/ar-AAGvvK8?li=AAggFp5

[CrosshairCollie]

Remember when Trump 'jokingly' said that he might try being president for life, like Un and Jinping?

[ScottishFox]

13 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

 

I've learned that that allegation has since been walked back: https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/newspolitics/trump-tears-into-lawrence-odonnell-media-over-totally-false-russia-report-all-apologize/ar-AAGvvK8?li=AAggFp5

 

Minimal adherence to journalistic standards would have prevented that from ever coming out.

 

There have been so many retractions since 2016 it's no wonder that when they surveyed 1000+ people that Fox News was listed as the most trusted news source.

Perversely, when they asked the same group which news outlet they considered the least trust worthy that it was.... Fox News again.

 

Donald Trump says and does a lot of ridiculous crap.  Resorting to making things up to save your dying media outlet just muddies the water when the truth comes out.

 

It's no wonder that independent news providers on YouTube are starting to have substantial audiences.

 

[CrosshairCollie]

If Reagan hadn't gotten rid of the Fairness Doctrine for broadcast journalism, we wouldn't have this problem.  We should have not only kept it, but expanded it to include cable/satellite broadcasts in addition to traditional broadcasting.

 

Ronald Reagan, Father of Fake News.

 

Fox News doesn't do retractions because they aren't 'wrong' about things, they're intentionally lying.

[Ranxerox]

Some children of service members and federal workers born abroad may no longer receive automatic citizenship.

 

The thing about this that gets to me is not the unfairness of this to the children in question, or the colossal ungratefulness this shows to the service and sacrifices made by the parents for good of our nation.  I have come to accept that neither Trump or his henchmen have any sense of fairness, or ability to feel gratitude or empathy for the non-rich.

 

No, what gets to me with these new rules are their incredible stupidity.  I mean sure Trump is as dumb as a sack of defective hammers, but it is hard to imagine that this policy came directly from the orange man.  It is just too specific and detailed to workings of citizenship for it to ever have crossed his Fox News controlled mind.  It had to have come from one of his underlings, but what here they trying to accomplish?   Attacking one's own troops is never a good look.  Giving these kids automatic citizenship cost virtually no money.  Moreover, these kids are exactly the sorts of citizens that we or any other nation wants to have in that they are educated and have been raised to value service to their government and nation.

 

Really, WTAF?  I can only scratch my metal plated head on this one.

[Old Man]

37 minutes ago, Ranxerox said:

Really, WTAF?  I can only scratch my metal plated head on this one.

 

The cruelty is the point.  Some GOP analyst somewhere figured out that overseas military kids are more likely to be nonwhite and therefore must be denied citizenship by any means necessary.  That's it.

[csyphrett]

9 hours ago, Ranxerox said:

Some children of service members and federal workers born abroad may no longer receive automatic citizenship.

 

The thing about this that gets to me is not the unfairness of this to the children in question, or the colossal ungratefulness this shows to the service and sacrifices made by the parents for good of our nation.  I have come to accept that neither Trump or his henchmen have any sense of fairness, or ability to feel gratitude or empathy for the non-rich.

 

No, what gets to me with these new rules are their incredible stupidity.  I mean sure Trump is as dumb as a sack of defective hammers, but it is hard to imagine that this policy came directly from the orange man.  It is just too specific and detailed to workings of citizenship for it to ever have crossed his Fox News controlled mind.  It had to have come from one of his underlings, but what here they trying to accomplish?   Attacking one's own troops is never a good look.  Giving these kids automatic citizenship cost virtually no money.  Moreover, these kids are exactly the sorts of citizens that we or any other nation wants to have in that they are educated and have been raised to value service to their government and nation.

 

Really, WTAF?  I can only scratch my metal plated head on this one.

Some guy in DOD has already walked this back to saying the policy was miswritten, but Old Man is right. The Cruelty is the point. 

CES

[DShomshak]

Even if the policy is walked back, it serves the spiteful purpose of cruelty and fear. But as Ranxerox says, it's also deeply stupid. The radio report I heard noted that it could affect noncitizens who serve in the US military, of which there are more than a few. If I understood correctly, existing law says if their children are born on US military bases, they are considered born on US soil.

 

Well, we can't have that, now can we? Those cunning foreigners, taking advantage of our laws by following them! So we're going to frighten, anger and alienate people who have shown by their deeds that they want to bind themselves to this country.

 

As I have said before in this thread, the desire of people from other countries to become American citizens -- and their belief that this is possible -- is power for the US. It is a power our most dedicated enemies lack and cannot obtain without abandoning fundamental aspects of their own identities. Like, they'd have to stop being tyrannical kleptocracies or religious dictatorships. To give up such an advantage is just, well, stupid.

 

Dean Shomshak

[DShomshak]

Even if the policy is walked back, it serves the spiteful purpose of cruelty and fear. But as Ranxerox says, it's also deeply stupid. The radio report I heard noted that it could affect noncitizens who serve in the US military, of which there are more than a few. If I understood correctly, existing law says if their children are born on US military bases, they are considered born on US soil.

 

Well, we can't have that, now can we? Those cunning foreigners, taking advantage of our laws by following them! So we're going to frighten, anger and alienate people who have shown by their deeds that they want to bind themselves to this country.

 

As I have said before in this thread, the desire of people from other countries to become American citizens -- and their belief that this is possible -- is power for the US. It is a power our most dedicated enemies lack and cannot obtain without abandoning fundamental aspects of their own identities. Like, they'd have to stop being tyrannical kleptocracies or religious dictatorships. To give up such an advantage is just, well, stupid.

 

Dean Shomshak

[Hermit]

38 minutes ago, DShomshak said:

Even if the policy is walked back, it serves the spiteful purpose of cruelty and fear. But as Ranxerox says, it's also deeply stupid. The radio report I heard noted that it could affect noncitizens who serve in the US military, of which there are more than a few. If I understood correctly, existing law says if their children are born on US military bases, they are considered born on US soil.

 

Well, we can't have that, now can we? Those cunning foreigners, taking advantage of our laws by following them! So we're going to frighten, anger and alienate people who have shown by their deeds that they want to bind themselves to this country.

 

As I have said before in this thread, the desire of people from other countries to become American citizens -- and their belief that this is possible -- is power for the US. It is a power our most dedicated enemies lack and cannot obtain without abandoning fundamental aspects of their own identities. Like, they'd have to stop being tyrannical kleptocracies or religious dictatorships. To give up such an advantage is just, well, stupid.

 

Dean Shomshak

 

Absolutely! When folks are willing to shed their blood on our country's behalf, I call that a pretty damn good show of faith. If I let my mind go a bit wild, I have to wonder if it's also not a slap on McCain who was IIRC born on a base in Panama.

 

 

[ScottishFox]

Even in Starship Troopers you obtained citizenship as a reward for military service.

[Hermit]

26 minutes ago, ScottishFox said:

Even in Starship Troopers you obtained citizenship as a reward for military service.

"Would you like to know more?"

[ScottishFox]

11 minutes ago, Hermit said:

"Would you like to know more?"

 

I sure would because it's very, very important I don't end up on the front line fighting endless hordes of giant murder bugs.

 

InfoTech for me, sir!

[Lord Liaden]

This article highlights an issue I'm ashamed to say hadn't occurred to me before. Donald Trump's state affairs held at resorts he owns have lined his pockets with millions of taxpayer dollars. Yet no one is even mentioning it.

[Cygnia]

Trump Allies Reportedly Trying to Raise Millions to Find Damaging Info on Journalists

[Pariah]

I remember when President Obama was elected that it became popular among some to post "I wasn't born in a Socialist country, but I'll probably die in one."

 

Is it time to start posting "I wasn't born in a Fascist country, but I'll probably die in one."?

[Hermit]

4 minutes ago, Pariah said:

I remember when President Obama was elected that it became popular among some to post "I wasn't born in a Socialist country, but I'll probably die in one."

 

Is it time to start posting "I wasn't born in a Fascist country, but I'll probably die in one."?

 

I think if it gets to that point the more honorable response might be

 

"I wasn't born in a fascist country, but I worry I'll die trying to prevent my grand kids from doing so."

[CrosshairCollie]

7 hours ago, Hermit said:

 

Absolutely! When folks are willing to shed their blood on our country's behalf, I call that a pretty damn good show of faith. If I let my mind go a bit wild, I have to wonder if it's also not a slap on McCain who was IIRC born on a base in Panama.

 

 

I wouldn't doubt it at all.  We know Trumpty-Dumpty is that petty.

[csyphrett]

16 hours ago, Hermit said:

 

Absolutely! When folks are willing to shed their blood on our country's behalf, I call that a pretty damn good show of faith. If I let my mind go a bit wild, I have to wonder if it's also not a slap on McCain who was IIRC born on a base in Panama.

 

 

I have seen a few people point to Steve Miller as the architect for this. Apparently if you aren't born inside the continental US, you aren't good enough to be a citizen to him.

CES