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Political Discussion Thread (With Rules)


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8 hours ago, Pariah said:

Interesting statement from Barack Obama:

 

"This idea of purity and you're never compromised and you're always politically woke and all that stuff, you should get over that quickly"

 

tl;dr version: You can't enact change if all you're doing is throwing rocks on social media.

 

2 hours ago, megaplayboy said:

The problem with this is that it presents a false dichotomy. Of course people can engage in real social activism to enact positive change, AND call out problematic statements and behavior of public figures and people in positions of authority.  

 

What I got from Obama's statements is that he's found the self-professed "woke" are (a) often feeling smug and self-satisfied that calling out problematic behavior and statements is enough, without recognizing the need to take further action; (b) that they are rigidly judgemental, not accepting that flawed people can also be good people, and that you can still share values with people you disagree with.

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3 hours ago, Pattern Ghost said:

 

And also not accepting that all people, including themselves, are flawed.

 

Standard social media response to this would be 50,000 people praising your 'flaw-shaming' and another 50,000 slamming your obvious prejudice against flawed people.  :D

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1 hour ago, megaplayboy said:

House votes to proceed with formal public impeachment inquiry.  We may get articles of impeachment sent to the Senate by Thanksgiving, or it may happen in December.  Which would put the Senate trial in January, which could be problematic for the half dozen or so US Senators currently running for president.  

 

Couldn't have happened to a better President.

 

 

 

 

...

Okay but seriously.  I hope there's enough to hammer nails in 5 inches long.  It might be the only way to counteract the chicanery of the congressmen that's been going on, and I do not wish to give them any leeway at all.

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11 hours ago, TrickstaPriest said:

Okay but seriously.  I hope there's enough to hammer nails in 5 inches long.  It might be the only way to counteract the chicanery of the congressmen that's been going on, and I do not wish to give them any leeway at all.

 

I'm worried about what will happen if Trump decides he's just not going to go. Not if the Senate actually votes to remove him, not even if he loses the election. Trump has already proven he's ready to deny the legitimacy of any political or legal moves against him, and to rouse the worst instincts and impulses in his base of support to protect himself. If he believes he could face prosecution if he's forced out of office, I'm not sure there's a limit to what he'd try to stay in power.

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1 hour ago, Lord Liaden said:

 

I'm worried about what will happen if Trump decides he's just not going to go. Not if the Senate actually votes to remove him, not even if he loses the election. Trump has already proven he's ready to deny the legitimacy of any political or legal moves against him, and to rouse the worst instincts and impulses in his base of support to protect himself. If he believes he could face prosecution if he's forced out of office, I'm not sure there's a limit to what he'd try to stay in power.

The minute the removal vote happens, pretty sure Team Pence is gonna be all about getting a hold of that nuclear "football", first things first.  Second, I seriously doubt anyone in the military or secret service is going to back his play if he doesn't wanna go.  

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13 minutes ago, Pattern Ghost said:

If he doesn't go, he'll be hauled off, simple as that. His civilian base won't have any time to react. If they do react afterward, they can be dealt with.

 

That's a pretty terrifying thought since "they" is 48% of the population.

 

And the idea of Pence being president makes me ill.

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I'd put Trumps 'true diehard base' at about 15-20% of the voting population.  The other 20-30% of voters are standard conservatives.  IMO, the latter might be upset for a bit but then they'd quickly fall in line behind Pence.

 

200+ million Americans are either too old/too young to vote or only care about politics if it starts to really  interfere with their daily lives.

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I mean, an uprising (or literally a call to violence) concerns me, but this is the product of overwhelming decades of constant unopposed propaganda targeting religious or isolated people.

 

It seems like the internet is beginning to convert and break those pockets up (to me, the evidence of global warming is damning enough on those propagandist sources that it's brutally cutting off a generation from this indoctrinated parentage).  The frantic pushing is a measure of desperation because their kids are realizing how long they've been conned.  This isn't to say they are 'blue', but they have every reason to resent everything these people stand for.  And I will not hesitate to remind them of that.

 

If we had more time, I'd advocate for a gentler approach... but we've already stalled on several important things for literally decades.  None of my opinion even includes automation or economic forces, just environmental ones.

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I too have worried what Trump might try if he were impeached and removed, or simply lost in 2020. This is not something I would have worried about from any other president, or candidate, or any other politician at any level. For instance, I think he could mobilize at least a few hundred thousand fanatics into an armed insurgency -- maybe millions. I hope I'm wrong but... Even a small percentage of 320 million people is a lot of angry nutjobs. And a lot of people on the right seem to be very, very angry. Sure, the military would never back a Trump presidential coup, and the insurgency would be put down, but it would wreck the last illusions of Americans being one nation.

 

As mentioned, Team Pence may be the best hope of avoiding real disaster. According to the NYTimes program The Daily, Pence very much wants to be president. Running with Trump was supposed to be a ploy to raise his profile; he didn't expect Trump to win. Trump, for his part, chose Pence for his deep connection to the Evangelical community. So Pence can tell one of the most important far-right constituencies to accept Trump's ouster and they'll probably be happy with Pence as a replacement.

 

And yes, Pence makes me ill, too. But as governor, Pence showed he could be moved by public and corporate pressure. He also knows how government works and is not flipping insane. A few months of President Pence would be survivable, though I'm not sure I'd want him in office for four years.

 

The other great hope is that Trump is a coward. He's never faced real danger or real consequence. For all his rage, he may not have the nerve to really fight back when the office is taken away.

 

Again, I very much hope I'm wrong and worrying about nothing. But as the author of On Tyranny said, people who say, "It can't happen here!" are already halfway lost. The proper approach is, "It can happen here, but we will not allow it."

 

Dean Shomshak

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