Lord Liaden Posted January 9, 2020 Report Share Posted January 9, 2020 4 hours ago, Old Man said: Photos of the wreckage show dozens of unmistakable shrapnel holes. There is no question that the plane was shot down. Tehran -> Kyiv -> Canada appears to have been a popular route for Iranian-Canadians. Unfortunately. Please don't say, "unmistakable." At this point no authority actually familiar with weapon damage to aircraft has made that assertion publicly. Another photo claims to show a rocket nose cone found near the wreckage of the aircraft, again, not confirmed that it was a rocket, or that it actually was at the crash site. A Canadian intelligence official asserted that Western intelligence services believe it's "unlikely" a missile brought the aircraft down. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7863359/Ukrainian-passenger-plane-carrying-180-people-crashes-near-Tehran-local-media.html That could all change when more evidence is in. It's not in yet. Hermit, Lawnmower Boy, Joe Walsh and 1 other 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DShomshak Posted January 9, 2020 Report Share Posted January 9, 2020 The airplane crash expert interviewed on All Things Considered yesterday would merely say that any simple "technical fault" was improbable as a cause of the crash. The most severe thing he could imagine was a complete engine failure that could damage a wing and even part of the fuselage, but even then the plane could make a controlled landing and the pilots would have time to radio for help. But he stressed that nothing could be positively known without a thorough investigation. My sympathies to Canada, and to all the relatives of the people on the plane. Dean Shomshak Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Posted January 9, 2020 Report Share Posted January 9, 2020 Strike by Tor-M1 surface to air missile likely cause of technical fault that brought down Ukrainian airliner in Tehran pinecone and Lord Liaden 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Posted January 10, 2020 Report Share Posted January 10, 2020 Tucker Carlson earns Nobel Peace Prize Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted January 10, 2020 Report Share Posted January 10, 2020 I was right. The End Times. If anyone thought Tucker Carlson's ego was insufferable before this happened... But this tweet transcript from the linked website, from Matthew Gertz, is most salient to me: "Do you feel safe knowing that the only thing standing between the United States and another major war may be whether the president finds the most recent monologue from Tucker Carlson or Sean Hannity more compelling?" TrickstaPriest 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megaplayboy Posted January 10, 2020 Report Share Posted January 10, 2020 2 hours ago, Lord Liaden said: I was right. The End Times. If anyone thought Tucker Carlson's ego was insufferable before this happened... But this tweet transcript from the linked website, from Matthew Gertz, is most salient to me: "Do you feel safe knowing that the only thing standing between the United States and another major war may be whether the president finds the most recent monologue from Tucker Carlson or Sean Hannity more compelling?" Tucker has basically transformed into "Richard Spencer with a primetime Fox show". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Posted January 10, 2020 Report Share Posted January 10, 2020 On 1/8/2020 at 1:00 PM, Hermit said: I do not agree with her on somethings, but I admire the hell out of her. A shame she's not yet 35 ,she'd make a hell of a VP nom for Bernie in that together they could terrify many..mwhahaha Um, I think she only really terrifies blue dog Democrats. Every Republican, conservative and most independents I know, hold her up as exactly why you should vote Republican. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermit Posted January 10, 2020 Report Share Posted January 10, 2020 Just now, Badger said: Um, I think she only really terrifies blue dog Democrats. Every Republican, conservative and most independents I know, hold her up as exactly why you should vote Republican. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Posted January 10, 2020 Report Share Posted January 10, 2020 On 1/8/2020 at 4:35 PM, death tribble said: What if someone declares war on the Beverly Hillbillies ? Or anyone who ever watched an episode ? Just asking for a friend That would be interesting. (and I have watched many of the episodes, though like the Andy Griffith Show, I only mostly like the black and white episodes) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Posted January 10, 2020 Report Share Posted January 10, 2020 2 minutes ago, Hermit said: Sorry, don't kill the messenger. Note: I do think some of her antics or what have you does get in the Republican head whether realized or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermit Posted January 10, 2020 Report Share Posted January 10, 2020 Just now, Badger said: Sorry, don't kill the messenger. I shall not not even taunt you viciously in an outrageous French accent! You might even be right, which.. I suppose would make me...wro..wro... less accurate than I am usually! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Posted January 10, 2020 Report Share Posted January 10, 2020 8 minutes ago, Badger said: Note: I do think some of her antics or what have you does get in the Republican head whether realized or not. Speaking truth to power does that sometimes. Cygnia 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Posted January 10, 2020 Report Share Posted January 10, 2020 1 hour ago, Hermit said: I shall not not even taunt you viciously in an outrageous French accent! You might even be right, which.. I suppose would make me...wro..wro... less accurate than I am usually! Yeah, well, cant say I am a fan of her, myself. But, we'll see what becomes of her in the next few years. I do worry that the Democrats may be too focused on the issues of the more radical elements of the party, to the expense of the moderates of the party. That usually hurts eventually. (Buttigieg is the only that seems to be consistent of the frontrunners at relating to the moderate/independent. While we can question the sincerity of it (definitely question it) Trump was successful at relating to the working class to where they did vote for him in 2016. Those votes will ultimately need to be taken back by Democrats if they want to win. Those votes may have been taken for granted as automatic at times in the past by the Dems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted January 10, 2020 Report Share Posted January 10, 2020 On 1/7/2020 at 4:30 PM, DShomshak said: Just heard a sound bite of Trump on the radio saying okay, he won't target cultural sites because it's illegal... but still delivered in a sneering way to make clear he thinks the law is stupid, and following any law is stupid. And still repeating the "They're allowed to..." nonsense. I dare say Trump has no conception of why anyone thinks culture is important. Or the rule of law, for that matter. dean Shomshak He might catch a glimmer of understanding if all the buildings with his name on them actually became targets of retaliation. At least that would make it personal, which appears to be all he can relate to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndianaJoe3 Posted January 10, 2020 Report Share Posted January 10, 2020 3 hours ago, Badger said: I do worry that the Democrats may be too focused on the issues of the more radical elements of the party, to the expense of the moderates of the party. That usually hurts eventually. (Buttigieg is the only that seems to be consistent of the frontrunners at relating to the moderate/independent. While we can question the sincerity of it (definitely question it) Trump was successful at relating to the working class to where they did vote for him in 2016. Those votes will ultimately need to be taken back by Democrats if they want to win. Those votes may have been taken for granted as automatic at times in the past by the Dems. What radical elements? The ones that think that taxation should return to Eisenhower levels? The ones that think that cops should be penalized for bad behavior? That health care shouldn't be for-profit? That violent people shouldn't have access to guns? That corporations shouldn't be allowed to ruin the environment (or the economy) for their own profit? That the government should provide some sort of post-secondary education? That we fight in too many damn wars? That corporations get subsidized for doing what they would do anyway? That government should help people that need help? That all US citizens should be allowed to vote? Grailknight, assault, Ternaugh and 3 others 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoloOfEarth Posted January 10, 2020 Report Share Posted January 10, 2020 1 hour ago, IndianaJoe3 said: What radical elements? The ones that think that taxation should return to Eisenhower levels? The ones that think that cops should be penalized for bad behavior? That health care shouldn't be for-profit? That violent people shouldn't have access to guns? That corporations shouldn't be allowed to ruin the environment (or the economy) for their own profit? That the government should provide some sort of post-secondary education? That we fight in too many damn wars? That corporations get subsidized for doing what they would do anyway? That government should help people that need help? That all US citizens should be allowed to vote? What are you, some kinda hippie commie punk? (Since tone of voice doesn't always come across well on the internet, I am just joking.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pariah Posted January 10, 2020 Report Share Posted January 10, 2020 1 hour ago, IndianaJoe3 said: What radical elements? The ones that think that taxation should return to Eisenhower levels? The ones that think that cops should be penalized for bad behavior? That health care shouldn't be for-profit? That violent people shouldn't have access to guns? That corporations shouldn't be allowed to ruin the environment (or the economy) for their own profit? That the government should provide some sort of post-secondary education? That we fight in too many damn wars? That corporations get subsidized for doing what they would do anyway? That government should help people that need help? That all US citizens should be allowed to vote? These three points, at least, could certainly be viewed as 'radical' based on how different they are from how things have traditionally worked in America. And a fourth (ruining the environment) will likely be viewed as nanny-state ideology. I'm not saying you're wrong about any of this. But I don't think you can assume that the rightness of these issues is self-evident to all American voters. Grailknight 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndianaJoe3 Posted January 10, 2020 Report Share Posted January 10, 2020 1 hour ago, Pariah said: These three points, at least, could certainly be viewed as 'radical' based on how different they are from how things have traditionally worked in America. And a fourth (ruining the environment) will likely be viewed as nanny-state ideology. I'm not saying you're wrong about any of this. But I don't think you can assume that the rightness of these issues is self-evident to all American voters. They all poll pretty well among American voters, less so with political pundits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted January 10, 2020 Report Share Posted January 10, 2020 I have doubts that playing it safe, trying to appeal to moderate viewpoints, is the way to win the next presidential election. Donald Trump presented a vision of America that, as wrong-headed as I believe it is, was bold and in some ways radical, but it resonated with enough voters to put him in the White House. What I hear and read from Americans generally is that the they feel the country, and the world, are at a political, social, environmental tipping point. Bold choices need to be made, and I suspect Americans are in the mood for decisive leadership. IMO the Democrats need to present an alternative vision of America to Trump's, one that emphasizes hope and compassion to counter his message of fear and hatred. assault and Joe Walsh 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Walsh Posted January 10, 2020 Report Share Posted January 10, 2020 I think you're right. Countering Trump's vision with "let's go back to the way things were before Trump" is a losing strategy, IMO. There needs to be a coherent, easily understandable vision presented by the candidate, and it needs to address the issues people care about in a way that isn't just more of the same old, same old. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattern Ghost Posted January 10, 2020 Report Share Posted January 10, 2020 14 minutes ago, Lord Liaden said: IMO the Democrats need to present an alternative vision of America to Trump's, one that emphasizes hope and compassion to counter his message of fear and hatred. Fear sells. The best we can hope of is that the fear being sold is of something that's reasonable and not racist and xenophobic. Fear of the environment being destroyed, and fear of climate change being two I'd put in that category, but drumming up fear of people has a lot more immediacy, unfortunately. Starlord 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted January 10, 2020 Report Share Posted January 10, 2020 IMHO you would then be playing Trump's game, on his battlefield. He understands that, he's good at it, and he's built years of momentum with it. That's a losing strategy. The Dem candidate has to change the game, and make Trump play on that field. Kennedy sold optimism and compassion. Eisenhower sold it. Franklin Roosevelt sold it. Don't underestimate the power of positive thinking to motivate voters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattern Ghost Posted January 10, 2020 Report Share Posted January 10, 2020 I'm not seeing any Democrats playing the optimism and compassion game. 🤷♂️ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermit Posted January 10, 2020 Report Share Posted January 10, 2020 3 hours ago, Pattern Ghost said: I'm not seeing any Democrats playing the optimism and compassion game. 🤷♂️ And if by coincidence! https://www.npr.org/2020/01/10/795275971/marianne-williamson-suspends-presidential-campaign I'm going to miss this little mystic. Bazza 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Posted January 10, 2020 Report Share Posted January 10, 2020 She was insane as hell, but at least likeable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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