Political Discussion Thread (With Rules)

[Hermit]

15 minutes ago, Iuz the Evil said:

And Chris Matthews is gone. That was sudden, anyone know what that's about?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/chris-matthews-retires-from-msnbc-after-string-of-recent-controversies/ar-BB10EqSG?li=BBnbfcL

 

But he has been in the news for all the wrong reasons lately — for likening the Bernie Sanders campaign to the Nazis, for misidentifying an African American politician, and for allegedly making sexist comments to a guest.

[Lord Liaden]

I don't think anyone should ever be forced to stop doing what they love and they're good at; but it's also important to recognize when it's time for a change, so you can exit gracefully, with dignity.

[Iuz the Evil]

Huh. Well, it's a hard world out there these days. 

[Pariah]

3 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

It makes me chuckle when I listen to comments about Biden, Warren, and Sanders, because from a Canadian viewpoint that's about as far right-to-left as our politics usually gets.

 

Even in Alberta?

[Old Man]

"As I was being eaten, I was thinking about my insurance"

[Lord Liaden]

2 hours ago, Pariah said:

Even in Alberta?

 

Yup. "Conservative" is relative. And you have to be careful to separate local political and economic populism from a broader socio-economic philosophy.

 

Granted, Canada's federal and provincial Conservative parties have picked up their share of climate-change-deniers, racists, and the like, notably in recent years; but when their views become public they're usually muzzled at minimum, or expelled if too egregious. (I get the impression that some of what's happening down south is leaking across our border.)

[Zeropoint]

8 hours ago, Pariah said:

There are plenty of disaffected Republicans (and ex-Republicans) who would vote for a reasonable (e.g., moderate) Democrat if one were presented

 

Bernie Sanders IS reasonable and moderate. The fact that anyone here would consider him in any way radical is a substantial condemnation of how the Overton Window has been shifted way to far to the right. A moderate, centrist position on "the left" is considered radical, and on the right . . . well, we're at the place where concentration camps for brown people is at the "policy" level of acceptance.

[wcw43921]

Can Moderates Win The White House?

[Hermit]

Well, I think it is safe to say with a Tornado, turn out for the primaries in Nashville has every reason to be low.

 

Here in Eastern TN, I voted at roughly 9:30. I was the only voter in the room though I did see a guy leave the building as I came in. It's rainy and miserable, and most importantly most folks are at work and won't get a chance till lunch. Technically TN has a law where you get a few hours to go vote but most Tennesseans don't know that rule or even if they do are cautious of chancing in a state that wants to put 'Right to Hire" (Read as 'Right to fire") in it's state constitution.

 

We'll see if I"m wrong, but I don't predict any record breaking turnouts for my state.

 

 

[TrickstaPriest]

2 hours ago, Hermit said:

Here in Eastern TN, I voted at roughly 9:30. I was the only voter in the room though I did see a guy leave the building as I came in. It's rainy and miserable, and most importantly most folks are at work and won't get a chance till lunch. Technically TN has a law where you get a few hours to go vote but most Tennesseans don't know that rule or even if they do are cautious of chancing in a state that wants to put 'Right to Hire" (Read as 'Right to fire") in it's state constitution.

 

 

Be safe out there.  I have a coworker out that way as well, it has been nuts as far as I've heard.

[Hermit]

24 minutes ago, TrickstaPriest said:

 

Be safe out there.  I have a coworker out that way as well, it has been nuts as far as I've heard.

 

Oh I'm fine. I'm in one of the safer parts of the state weather wise right now.

[Hermit]

*Sigh* SUper Tuesday is not going as well for Bernie as I hoped.

Ah well, Better Biden that Bloomberg IMO

[Badger]

Now, that this is done.  I kind of suspect that Buttigeg and Klobuchar might have been "encouraged" to step down for the good of the party, and the ability for a solitary consolidation.  (and possibly Warren is encouraged to stay because she might be the most likely to siphon off votes from the Nameless One)

 

I feeling perkily paranoid today.

 

Note: oh and Bloomberg? Well, ego.

[Old Man]

3 hours ago, Hermit said:

*Sigh* SUper Tuesday is not going as well for Bernie as I hoped.

Ah well, Better Biden that Bloomberg IMO

 

Yeah, it's really disappointing.  I really needed someone who was going to do something about health care and college costs next term, because oldest boy will be going to college.  It looks like those concerns will not be addressed at all.

[Starlord]

2 hours ago, Badger said:

Now, that this is done.  I kind of suspect that Buttigeg and Klobuchar might have been "encouraged" to step down for the good of the party, and the ability for a solitary consolidation.  (and possibly Warren is encouraged to stay because she might be the most likely to siphon off votes from the Nameless One)

 

Oh, it seemed fairly obvious to me that the mod Dems spoke to B and K.  I doubt Warren was encouraged to stay in...the moderates probably just didn't speak to her.

[Hermit]

4 hours ago, Old Man said:

 

Yeah, it's really disappointing.  I really needed someone who was going to do something about health care and college costs next term, because oldest boy will be going to college.  It looks like those concerns will not be addressed at all.

 

Early indications are one common thread is- People under 40 just aren't voting.

I'm not going to shake my fist at every younger person  I see, but I do wish they'd found the motivation to get out more.

 

Warren's gonna catch some unfair flack for this from the more extreme Bernie supporters (And perhaps others pretending to be Bernie supporters) but I don't begrudge her staying in. If we get a brokered convention she can have enough influence to push for some of her agendas even if I don't think she's going to have the superdelegates look at her and go 'hey, you! how did we not see you?'

 

The good news is, maybe I've been wrong, and Biden inspires more folks than I thought he did. 

 

Of course, a lot of the states were in the South... and in the General Election it's gonna go 90% Red anyway. We'll see how the others go, but it looks like ultimately the super delegates will decide.

 

 

 

 

[Lord Liaden]

If the decision on a candidate comes down to what it looks to be -- Biden or Sanders -- it will be a defining moment for the Democratic Party. Choosing Biden means going back to the status quo, before Trump. Choosing Sanders means endorsing systemic change. My own perception is that dissatisfaction and frustration with the status quo contributed to the election of Trump in the first place. I've seen and heard nothing to convince me that Biden is willing to address that.

 

I also dread the Presidential candidate debates if Biden gets the nod. Between Donnie's incoherence and Joey's stumblemouth, they'll be excruciating to try to listen to.

[Starlord]

Bloomberg drops out...endorses Biden.

[Lord Liaden]

So you can't just buy the American Presidency. That's a positive note.

[Ternaugh]

29 minutes ago, Lord Liaden said:

So you can't just buy the American Presidency. That's a positive note.

 

Of course not. Everyone knows that it's just a rental.

[Cancer]

The costs of secrecy

[Dr. MID-Nite]

I won't lie. I was really hoping America was serious about wanting real substantial change. These results are showing otherwise. America has a greater disparity of income than France in 1789. We have less worker rights than most First World countries, worse health care, and a poorer educational system. Sadly, Americans seem fine with this. I'm just disgusted with it all. I was hoping the peaceful revolution was coming, but it seems inevitable that we're heading towards something nasty.

[Lord Liaden]

The fat lady hasn't sung yet, Doc. The caucuses are just the first stage. Next comes the convention, and then the election. Not until that's over will we know what America, as a whole, really wants.

 

Personally I would like the Democratic candidate to be Sanders, not just because I like his stated policies, but because he's articulated a clear vision of where he wants to lead his country, one diametrically opposed to Trump's. That would give Americans a meaningful choice, not just for President, but for what they want their country to stand for going forward.

[TrickstaPriest]

2 hours ago, Cancer said:

The costs of secrecy

 

I wholly agree with this and has been part of my world view for a long, long time.  These saving-the-face games in the face of real trouble are not only barbaric, but they are the hallmark of both incompetence and weakness.  It's what people do when they literally don't know how to act to resolve a serious situation and are trying to CYA by burning their own raft.  It's also the fingerprint of any autocratic regime - it's why most 'experts' and skilled individuals gradually leave the country, it's why their leadership can make disastrous decisions that tank entire industries, and it's why their military struggles with internal conflicts. 

 

Yes, contrary to what most military dictatorship propaganda will tell you, their military structure often is rife with internal strife, conflict, and even sabotage.  Entirely because they are there for political advancement.  Somehow we have taken the stance in fiction that they are in fact as fearsome and strong as they pretend themselves to be.

[Hermit]

54 minutes ago, Lord Liaden said:

The fat lady hasn't sung yet, Doc. The caucuses are just the first stage. Next comes the convention, and then the election. Not until that's over will we know what America, as a whole, really wants.

 

Personally I would like the Democratic candidate to be Sanders, not just because I like his stated policies, but because he's articulated a clear vision of where he wants to lead his country, one diametrically opposed to Trump's. That would give Americans a meaningful choice, not just for President, but for what they want their country to stand for going forward.

 

Another factor in play is the Supreme Court which has agreed to try another case on the Affordable Care Act. If they nuke Obama care any time before the election, it could have have profound consequences ON said election. Biden wants to keep Obamacare and improve it. But if there's nothing to keep, if it's undone before he can take office, what move is he going to make? If that happens, I can certainly see progressives pushing him with "Can we try Universal Health Care NOW, maybe pretty please?"

 

Only the pretty please might be sarcastic

 

If it happens before Biden gets the nom, it might fuel Bernie as few things can.