Political Discussion Thread (With Rules)

[Hermit]

Damn Welfare queens ie corporations

[IndianaJoe3]

59 minutes ago, Dr. MID-Nite said:

The money has to go to those who truly matter...the ones with the money.  

 

Socialism for the rich, rugged individualism for everyone else.

[Badger]

While, I don't think Trump has handled it well.  I do seem to remember Obama flying somebody back with Ebola to treat them.  *I smacked my forehead into a concussion from it, so maybe I misremembering some details.  But, that was a disaster waiting to happen.

 

Compared to that, Trump might not be doing a bad job.  (especially given the death rates of Ebola at the time)

 

 

[Doc Democracy]

7 hours ago, Badger said:

I do seem to remember Obama flying somebody back with Ebola to treat them.  *I smacked my forehead into a concussion from it, so maybe I misremembering some details.  But, that was a disaster waiting to happen.

 

There is a HUGE difference between the controlled movement of a known carrier within a controlled environment to the wild spread of a disease.  We often think too much on movies like Outbreak where one breach of safety protocol launches a disaster, real life does not usually pan out that way.

 

🙂

 

Doc

[Starlord]

6 hours ago, Doc Democracy said:

 

There is a HUGE difference between the controlled movement of a known carrier within a controlled environment to the wild spread of a disease.  We often think too much on movies like Outbreak where one breach of safety protocol launches a disaster, real life does not usually pan out that way.

 

🙂

 

Doc

 

Exactly.

 

ANY administration would have done better than this one.  The vast majority of people STILL can't get tested and Healthcare facilities are complaining about CDC protocols for who can even BE tested.  The handling of this so far has been a disaster.  As of a couple days ago, we were the lowest at 5 people per million tested, while South Korea was over 3,600 people per million tested.  Gee, I thought we'd already "Made America Great Again".  On top of that, now the House and Senate are preparing to fight over a relief bill while simultaneously shuttering their own doors and hiding from the virus.

[Lord Liaden]

Still, I'll be interested to see whether this is the evidence of incompetence that finally undoes Trump, or whether he'll manage to weasel out of this too.

[Starlord]

2 minutes ago, Lord Liaden said:

Still, I'll be interested to see whether this is the evidence of incompetence that finally undoes Trump, or whether he'll manage to weasel out of this too.

 

His incompetence was on display again with his horrific 'reassure the country' national address the other night.  Most of what he said vacillated between blaming Europe and China, utter lies or just flat-out incorrect statements that he had to fix later on twitter.

[Hermit]

I have family that includes Trump's cult. No they don't blame him one whit for bad handling of this.

[Pariah]

"I blame Obama!"

 

Trump condemns CDC for lack of coronavirus testing, blames Obama

 

More outstanding problem-solving from the Very Stable Genius™ running the country right now.

[Old Man]

The GOP has controlled all three branches of government for four years and yet everything is still Obama's fault.  It would be funny if it weren't actually getting people killed.

[IndianaJoe3]

15 hours ago, Badger said:

While, I don't think Trump has handled it well.  I do seem to remember Obama flying somebody back with Ebola to treat them. 

 

Ebola is only transmissible through bodily fluids, primarily blood, feces, and vomit. I don't think Obama was in any danger.

[Badger]

8 hours ago, Doc Democracy said:

 

There is a HUGE difference between the controlled movement of a known carrier within a controlled environment to the wild spread of a disease.  We often think too much on movies like Outbreak where one breach of safety protocol launches a disaster, real life does not usually pan out that way.

 

🙂

 

Doc

 

No, but why take unnecessary risk?

 

7 minutes ago, IndianaJoe3 said:

 

Ebola is only transmissible through bodily fluids, primarily blood, feces, and vomit. I don't think Obama was in any danger.

 

Ok, So?  It still doesn't stop the fact that Americans in AMerica were exposed that otherwise wouldn't be.  Better to keep it contained in as few spots as possible.

 

 

[Lord Liaden]

And what would Americans have said about Obama if he had left an American citizen to die of disease in a foreign country?

[TrickstaPriest]

7 hours ago, Hermit said:

I have family that includes Trump's cult. No they don't blame him one whit for bad handling of this.

 

Yeah.  I'm sorry you have to deal with that.  I have seen the mental gymnastics, most of it involves blaming the media.  That's not an argument I hold for 1 second, and the sheer impact on the Dow Jones is the best numerical indicator I can point to that "sorry, the President doesn't know what he's doing."  If he knew what he was doing, that simply wouldn't have happened that badly.

 

The media isn't great.  It never is.  But the 'waiting until the last second to do anything' seems to be our calling card.

[TrickstaPriest]

1 hour ago, Badger said:

Ok, So?  It still doesn't stop the fact that Americans in AMerica were exposed that otherwise wouldn't be.  Better to keep it contained in as few spots as possible.

 

 

I would have to have more on-site knowledge, but there's 'risk' and there's risk.  Given how strict those protocols can operate, if it was done properly I doubt there was any risk flying someone back.  I'm saying that in the strictest sense - I doubt there was more than a 1% chance of it spreading.

 

Contrary to that, having the subject directly here may have made it faster and easier to analyze it.

 

But my knowledge on this subject is limited. 

 

I will say people can (and have) found excuse to complain about everything.  I've seen people come up with the most 'obvious' complaints about 'insane' protocols that were bald-faced wrong.  Flying them back sure sounds 'bone headed' but reality doesn't favor 'sounds like'.  'Sounds like' is just "I don't know enough".  Having them here may have let us respond much more effectively in treatment and response.

 

So YMMV, but complaints about science and protocol I take with heavy spoonfuls of salt.  I literally had to have a conversation with a friend about why people complaining about 'the government's choices of scientific studies to pay for' had no bearing on reality.  His example was something akin to 'why should we pay for studying mayflies'.

[TrickstaPriest]

And sorry for being so hard on you, Badger.  I actively loathe these 'memes' and 'mind bombs'.  I won't get on my soapbox, but they have gone from being the one tool the little guy to use against major forces... to one of the most single damaging things I've seen to the well being of democracy.

[Old Man]

4 hours ago, Badger said:

 

No, but why take unnecessary risk?

 

 

Ok, So?  It still doesn't stop the fact that Americans in AMerica were exposed that otherwise wouldn't be.  Better to keep it contained in as few spots as possible.

 

 

 

Ebola has been in the U.S. since the 1990s, mostly confined in and around a couple of labs in Reston, Virginia.  Unlike the coronavirus, Ebola is pretty well understood and difficult to transmit, and there are some imperfect treatment options that are known.  Transporting an Ebola patient carries very low risk as long as proper containment measures are followed.

 

There's also a vaccine for it now, although it wasn't an option during the Obama administration.

 

edit: speling

[Pariah]

3 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

And what would Americans have said about Obama if he had left an American citizen to die of disease in a foreign country?

 

Nothing that a bunch of Americans aren't still saying about him now.

[megaplayboy]

13 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

Still, I'll be interested to see whether this is the evidence of incompetence that finally undoes Trump, or whether he'll manage to weasel out of this too.

I think a pile of dead parents and grandparents is a bit harder to weasel out of, politically and otherwise.  

[Old Man]

You underestimate the power of the conservabubble. 

[TrickstaPriest]

23 minutes ago, megaplayboy said:

I think a pile of dead parents and grandparents is a bit harder to weasel out of, politically and otherwise.  

 

Which is why they are pre-gaming so hard on blaming anything/anyone else.  Or saying the measures he took were actually a great start.  Or any other thing.

[Badger]

6 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

And what would Americans have said about Obama if he had left an American citizen to die of disease in a foreign country?

 

Most? Nothing or he made the best move he could under the circumstances.  Some would complain sure, the ones who let their hatred of Obama overcome their decision-making.  Some people let their hatred of Bush overcome their decision making.  And Clinton.  And the other Bush.  And Reagan, etc.  

[Badger]

6 hours ago, TrickstaPriest said:

And sorry for being so hard on you, Badger.  I actively loathe these 'memes' and 'mind bombs'.  I won't get on my soapbox, but they have gone from being the one tool the little guy to use against major forces... to one of the most single damaging things I've seen to the well being of democracy.

 

Don't worry.  At least for myself, on this type of matter, I am trying to as consistent as possible.  With deadly diseases it probably is a bad idea to move infected patient from infected Point A to non-infected Point B.   No matter how hard the effort is to try to keep it contained in Point B, there is a danger.  Rolling a 4 or better on 3d6 shouldn't be congratulated, when the roll itself was unnecessary.  That was how I felt on the matter at the time, and still do. 

 

And while I wouldn't want the infected to die, regardless of who they are.  I don't want to put others at risk.  It would have been a hard decision to make, and I do mean to stress, to leave him behind like that.  But, it was a decision I felt was necessary.  And yes, if I had to make that decision, I probably would be eaten by guilt, regardless of it being the wise decision.  But, that was the job one chooses when becoming a President.

[Iuz the Evil]

At a local level, the emotional response is absolutely off the hook. I have zero (0) local cases, community transmission or otherwise. Schools just closed to April 14. Events closed through April, which will be absolutely devastating to the tourist based economy. Nonprofits closing to March 29. 

 

Okay, fine. Shut it all down. Whatever makes people happy. 

[Badger]

3 hours ago, Pariah said:

 

Nothing that a bunch of Americans aren't still saying about him now.

 

Yeah, I wasn't a fan of Obama.  But, yeah, he made good decisions, he made bad decisions.  It is what it is.  I tried to be as fair as possible during those 8 years, and hope I was.  I dislike the all-or-nothing extreme political crap-fest.