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On 5/3/2020 at 5:45 PM, DShomshak said:

If anyone's interested, a few days back The Daily (With Michael Barbaro) interviewed both Gov. Whitmer and one of the protesters, giving them both a chance to make their points. Which they did, quite reasonably. This particular protester, however, talked about the business of which his is VP,, which does animal and pest control. He is quite sure the work can be done without an employee coming anywhere near other people. He said he was not happy to find various wackadoodles also showing up the protest. Gov. Whitmer, OTOH, talked about the dangers of *anyone* going *anywhere* -- her example was the gas pump handle everybody touches and so could pass the virus from person to person.

 

I can't say either of them was flat-out wrong. But Mister Pest Control was only responsible for a small group of employees, whereas Whitmer is responsible for everyone in Michigan -- and must make decisions based on a significant fraction of those people being complete idiots.

 

Dean Shomshak

 

I think one reason she has looked bad, is she seems to have a knack (from the little I have seen of her on TV-which is like twice) when answering questions about the protests, to be demeaning towards people wanting to open things up.  (aka frayed nerves on both sides I think)

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"Frayed nerves" is a fair point to consider. Whitmer has to be under tremendous pressure from all sides, and I doubt diplomacy was getting her very far. In addition to her constituents with legitimate concerns and viewpoints, she also has to deal with idiots, as well as a hostile state legislature and federal government.

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And people who are not acting from sincere concerns about livelihoods, or even from frayed nerves. In case I didn't mention it before, another ep of The Daily reported on efforts to trace who's organizing the protests. Keeps going back to groups like the Koch Brothers-funded Freedom Works, or a law firm that has former RNC chair (and former Trump chief of staff) Reince Priebus as a partner, or similar lobbying and activist groups. There is as yet no single piece of documentation tying it together as a concerted effort by the Trump reelection campaign, or by right-wing billionaires upset that too many peons are staying home instead of risking their lives for corporate profits. But wow, it sure looks that way.

 

Dean Shomshak

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16 hours ago, Old Man said:

 

Fundamentally why I hate everything about this administration and give them no credit whatsoever.  Even less credit that people give the "Big Bads" of government, of which there are many.

 

Look up in history the last time a government couldn't handle even low-grade criticism and you'll find deep, dark wells.  And lots of dead people.

 

edit:  I'll try and be less Doomer.  But it's not an exaggeration to say myself, my parents, my brother, we are all watching what this government is doing and how people are responding.  It's a very real question as to whether we should sell everything we have and move in the next few years.  Unfortunately homes in Canada are 2 or 3 times more expensive - they'd be going from homeowners to renters overnight.  But staying may be worse - pensions, social security, my brother's disability... who knows how long any of this will continue to exist.

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This is a horrible bind for anyone who opposes a second term for the Trump presidency. Whether or not Tara Reade's accusations are investigated, they hand the Republicans ammunition against Joe Biden during the presidential campaign. The fact that Donald Trump doesn't comprehend the meaning of ethics is, sadly, beside the point. Biden has cast himself as the moral alternative to Trump, and therefore will be judged by that standard. If the Democrats try to hold off any investigation until after the election, or indefinitely in the hope the story goes away, since the party has publicly championed the #MeToo movement they'll be accused of hypocrisy by opponents and supporters alike. But even if Biden wins, his presidency will be paralyzed by that cloud the way Bill Clinton's was by Monica Lewinsky. Perhaps even worse, because the accusation against Biden is far more serious.

 

But as the article wcw linked to points out -- and as I myself was reminded of on these forums 😔 -- there is no precedent for an alternative method to choose a replacement candidate for Joe Biden at this point. And I will be sickened if we learn that yet another politician who can't keep it in his pants turns out to be the reason Donald Trump gets back in the White House.

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IMO it's completely unfair and selfish for so many people to expect Ginsberg to stay on the bench until carried out in a body bag. She's given a lifetime of great service to her country, and at her age and health she's earned the option to rest if she chooses. If the American political and judicial system is so deeply flawed that only Ginsberg is preserving it, then the best she can do is delay the inevitable. She's no savior, she's a servant of the people. If the battles she fought need to be fought again, the younger generations should take them up.

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13 minutes ago, Lord Liaden said:

IMO it's completely unfair and selfish for so many people to expect Ginsberg to stay on the bench until carried out in a body bag. She's given a lifetime of great service to her country, and at her age and health she's earned the option to rest if she chooses. If the American political and judicial system is so deeply flawed that only Ginsberg is preserving it, then the best she can do is delay the inevitable. She's no savior, she's a servant of the people. If the battles she fought need to be fought again, the younger generations should take them up.

 

Well, I though Justice Kennedy was the only one preserving it, so that ship has already sailed into the Atlantic.  

 

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This was posted on the Facebook page of a friend of mine, and she didn't originate it because she's a much better speller. It does leave me wondering how she, and the other right-wingers would have reacted to the rationing during World War II. Would they have accepted it as necessary to overcoming the crisis that was upon them, or would they have derided it as socialist or communistic?

 

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I'm truly disgusted that Trump continues to basically be immune all political factors. He literally does and says anything and gets away with it. The fact that he is close to another 4 years in the White House is beyond mind boggling to me. He's had enough gaffes to destroy the careers of a hundred politicians and.....nothing happens. And white supremacy is in again....great. They've done such a great job of revisionist history that we now have debates over confederate flags. I am literally at my last straw. There is no good news on the horizon…..and never has it felt more powerless to be an average citizen in America. Sigh...….

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My biggest problem is that the US has had very little socialism in relation to this crisis.

 

I am sure the curfew and suspended privileges would be less intrusive if they came with job security and universal basic income.

 

As far as food limits go, I think that was more of an example of untrammeled capitalism, folk buying what they wanted rather than needed.

 

The only place place socialism has raised its head in the US has been for those poor suffering corporations and billionaire class.

 

😞

 

Doc

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19 hours ago, Dr. MID-Nite said:

I'm truly disgusted that Trump continues to basically be immune all political factors. He literally does and says anything and gets away with it. The fact that he is close to another 4 years in the White House is beyond mind boggling to me. He's had enough gaffes to destroy the careers of a hundred politicians and.....nothing happens. And white supremacy is in again....great. They've done such a great job of revisionist history that we now have debates over confederate flags. I am literally at my last straw. There is no good news on the horizon…..and never has it felt more powerless to be an average citizen in America. Sigh...….

 

I think the ones taking the heat are state governors at the moment.  And I cant totally disagree with that, as some have proven to be quite incompetent.

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12 hours ago, Old Man said:

So much for the post office (just in time for vote by mail to not happen)

 

Well, I don't condone cronyism in political appointments, but if this guy's publicity is to be believed, he at least has experience related to his new job. That would put him ahead of many Trump appointees.

 

But Trump's tirades against the post office's money issues once again highlight that the only administrative issue he understands or cares about is the financial bottom line.

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