Political Discussion Thread (With Rules)

[Lord Liaden]

There are many prominent Republican lawmakers right now who probably are idiots, but it's more serious than that. By protecting and enabling Trump's worst excesses, by excusing and justifying his incompetence, those officials have already demonstrated they don't care about the future of the United States. They care about what's to their own short-term benefit. They care about lining their pockets and pleasing the wealthy factions who do it. And they're desperate to gain any advantage as Trump sinks in the polls. Yet even if they don't win, they're liable to end up richer.

 

I think you overestimate China's desire to see Trump gone. Trump is an aggravation, to be sure, but China isn't popular in America right now with any group or party. But Trump creates division and chaos which weakens the United States, and that's to China's advantage. Buying American politicians, of whatever stripe, is also to their advantage.

[Dr. MID-Nite]

2 minutes ago, Lord Liaden said:

There are many prominent Republican lawmakers right now who probably are idiots, but it's more serious than that. By protecting and enabling Trump's worst excesses, by excusing and justifying his incompetence, those officials have already demonstrated they don't care about the future of the United States. They care about what's to their own short-term benefit. They care about lining their pockets and pleasing the wealthy factions who do it. And they're desperate to gain any advantage as Trump sinks in the polls.

 

I think you overestimate China's desire to see Trump gone. Trump is an aggravation, to be sure, but China isn't popular in America right now with any group or party. But Trump creates division and chaos which weakens the United States, and that's to China's advantage. Buying American politicians, of whatever stripe, is also to their advantage.

 

China is content to sit back and watch us self destruct....

[Lord Liaden]

23 minutes ago, Dr. MID-Nite said:

 

China is content to sit back and watch us self destruct....

 

Same response as when I hear folks say Vladimir Putin is pulling Donald Trump's strings. He doesn't need to. Trump's doing his work for him. Anyway, Trump is uncontrollable.

[Old Man]

7 hours ago, Hugh Neilson said:

 

Well, if we handle it based on his approach, it will eventually disappear from humanity, anyway.  Probably not the way humanity would prefer, though.

 

Once humanity disappears, the virus will die out for sure.  Victory!!

[IndianaJoe3]

5 hours ago, Ranxerox said:

If the Senate Republicans are planning to do what Beau say they are, they are idiots.  They will throw open our country to huge foreign influence and they will still lose the election.  Are they really so dumb as to fail to realize that they would be starting a game that the Democrats could play also, and that they would gain no net advantage?  While Russia would certainly pay to keep their man in the White House, China would be willing to pay to see him gone.  China is a lot wealthier than Russia.  So they would be doing great lasting harm to our nation, just for the pleasure of being curbed stomped in the next election even harder. 🤬

 

China is more than happy to see the US weakened. Why should they interfere to elect a man likely to strengthen the US?

[Matt the Bruins]

38 minutes ago, Old Man said:

 

Once humanity disappears, the virus will die out for sure.  Victory!!

 

Not so fast...

 

–tropical fruit bats

[Old Man]

US$100,000 per head, in case you were wondering

 

That's a lot of motivation given the cost of living there.

[Old Man]

[Grailknight]

1 hour ago, Old Man said:

 

Why does this not surprise me in the least?

 

[Lord Liaden]

I'm not terribly surprised that the Trumpier states are experiencing a more dramatic rise now -- they're more likely to have taken his nonsense directions seriously. That the Clintonish states started out with such a higher incidence does surprise me, though. It would be interesting to determine if more than coincidence was involved, and if so, what the factors were.

[Ranxerox]

6 minutes ago, Lord Liaden said:

I'm not terribly surprised that the Trumpier states are experiencing a more dramatic rise now -- they're more likely to have taken his nonsense directions seriously. That the Clintonish states started out with such a higher incidence does surprise me, though. It would be interesting to determine if more than coincidence was involved, and if so, what the factors were.

 

The Clinton states numbers were being pulled up hard by New York.  Indeed, during that early period, the national numbers were largely made up of New York cases.

[Badger]

7 hours ago, IndianaJoe3 said:

 

China is more than happy to see the US weakened. Why should they interfere to elect a man likely to strengthen the US?

Don't be fooled. No matter who wins, America loses.

 

Nothing is going to get better till at least 2024.

[Doc Democracy]

2 hours ago, Badger said:

Don't be fooled. No matter who wins, America loses.

 

Nothing is going to get better till at least 2024.

 

That is a counsel of despair Badger, and not likely to get something better in 2024.  If folk don't like either option and wait for something better, nothing is likely to turn up.  If people counsel despair, nothing is likely to change.

 

Democracy, like a vegetable garden, takes work to make it flourish.  Voting at every election is like seeding the plot and ignoring it until harvest time.  It is unlikely you will go back and find any tomatoes, potatoes or carrots, just a bunch of nettles and weeds.

 

We have gotten lazy, expecting the system to throw up good, principled candidates when experience is telling them that is not the way to get elected.

 

What is needed is not new systems or rules but a deeper engagement by the electorate.  of course, it might take a new system to garner that engagement.

 

We get the politicians we deserve.

 

Doc

[DShomshak]

14 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

I'm not terribly surprised that the Trumpier states are experiencing a more dramatic rise now -- they're more likely to have taken his nonsense directions seriously. That the Clintonish states started out with such a higher incidence does surprise me, though. It would be interesting to determine if more than coincidence was involved, and if so, what the factors were.

 

New York, as mentioned, in NYC. Washington, around Seattle. California, IIRC, in Los Angeles. Coastal states with big cities that recieve lots of international travelers. Of course the virus appears there first.And since the liberal/conservative divide is also largely an urban/rural divide, Clinton won those states. Which then means the lockdowns necessary to slow the spread instantly get associated with liberal statism, and conservatives feel obliged to trumpet that they will never accept such limits on their freedom. And here we are.

 

Dean Shomshak

[DShomshak]

On 7/1/2020 at 10:09 AM, Lord Liaden said:

 

With my slow connection, I can't warch videos. Someone summarize,please?

 

Dean Shomshak

[DShomshak]

On 7/2/2020 at 7:28 AM, Lord Liaden said:

Boris Johnson is taking a big political gamble by offering British citizenship to so many Hong Kong residents. Not only is he stirring up a hornet's nest of condemnation and potential retaliation from China, the UK doesn't seem to be in the mood to absorb a big wave of immigrants, particularly non-white (a lot of that going around in the West right now, of course).

 

The world really needs more cold-blooded economic thinking. Because from such a perspective, a chance to acquire a few million hardworking, educated and business-savvy Hong Kongers is an opportunity only a fool would pass up.

 

Dean Shomshak

[Dr. MID-Nite]

10 hours ago, Doc Democracy said:

 

That is a counsel of despair Badger, and not likely to get something better in 2024.  If folk don't like either option and wait for something better, nothing is likely to turn up.  If people counsel despair, nothing is likely to change.

 

Democracy, like a vegetable garden, takes work to make it flourish.  Voting at every election is like seeding the plot and ignoring it until harvest time.  It is unlikely you will go back and find any tomatoes, potatoes or carrots, just a bunch of nettles and weeds.

 

We have gotten lazy, expecting the system to throw up good, principled candidates when experience is telling them that is not the way to get elected.

 

What is needed is not new systems or rules but a deeper engagement by the electorate.  of course, it might take a new system to garner that engagement.

 

We get the politicians we deserve.

 

Doc

 

The current system breeds corruption...so yes...it needs to go...or at least be heavily altered.

[Ternaugh]

46 minutes ago, DShomshak said:

With my slow connection, I can't warch videos. Someone summarize,please?

 

Dean Shomshak

 

Senator Warner added a clause to a defense appropriations bill that would require political campaigns to report foreign interference, but the Republicans struck the language out of the bill.

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-biden-russia/biden-attacks-republicans-for-blocking-law-on-foreign-election-interference-idUSKBN2413OW

[Doc Democracy]

28 minutes ago, Dr. MID-Nite said:

The current system breeds corruption...so yes...it needs to go...or at least be heavily altered.

 

I think you will find that the system allows corruption.  It would not happen if people were more engaged.  Ultimately it is neglect that breeds corruption.

[Dr. MID-Nite]

5 minutes ago, Doc Democracy said:

 

I think you will find that the system allows corruption.  It would not happen if people were more engaged.  Ultimately it is neglect that breeds corruption.

 

That assumes we have more power in the process than we actually do. Like everything else in America now, it's a rich man's game. If we could get money out of politics that would be a huge step in the right direction. Ideally, we need to focus on investing in Americans again on a large scale. Americans who feel powerless....like many do right now due to their economic situation...tend to find voting pointless due to the factors I mentioned above. 

[Doc Democracy]

36 minutes ago, Dr. MID-Nite said:

Ideally, we need to focus on investing in Americans again on a large scale. Americans who feel powerless....like many do right now due to their economic situation...tend to find voting pointless due to the factors I mentioned above. 

 

This is common to all of our long-standing democracies.  I think voting can feel pointless (and especially seems so) if that is all you do.  If more effort was made to get people engaged with the actual process and party dynamics, true mass membership parties, then things would change.

 

I blame Mazlo.  For too many people, for too long our basic needs have been met and we have had no real incentive to go looking for power and wealth to flow down through society, we got lazy.

 

If we want things to change, switching systems might help but it is getting folk to really engage that will make the difference.

 

Wish I knew how to do that... 😞

 

Doc

[Old Man]

How Trump will seize power if he loses the election

[Old Man]

To stop influx of infected immigrants, Arizona border closed... by Mexico

[wcw43921]

Liberals Need To Reclaim Patriotism

[Sociotard]

Also, figure out how separate patriotism from military adventurism, imperialism, and all other reckless interventions.

 

I really liked Trump's reluctance to jump into foreign conflicts, I just wish he had a better grasp of soft power. Isolationism in military position only.