Political Discussion Thread (With Rules)

[TrickstaPriest]

It's a pretty awful situation all around

[Pattern Ghost]

6 hours ago, DShomshak said:

The Tacoma News Tribune reports this morning that employees at the Tacoma, WA mail sorting center have defied orders and put some sorting machines back together again.

 

The radio coverage of this that I heard yesterday said that the machine was put into service with full approval.

[archer]

6 hours ago, DShomshak said:

There could also be ecological impacts on the Gulf of Aqaba.

 

 

Taking both the water and the brine within the water out of the Gulf would make me think that there'd be, at most, minimal ecological impacts from changing the brine balance there.

 

If they removed the water then put the brine back into the Gulf, I could see that having a huge ecological impact though.

[archer]

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/08/26/mark-meadows-hatch-act-rnc-402194

 

The non-Fox news media and the Democrats have been complaining about how Republican officials speaking for the Republican National Convention are blatantly breaking the law (the Hatch Act) by holding their political speeches in a government building (and the president having his convention speeches at the White House).

 

The White House Chief of Staff is claiming the critics are stretching the bounds of the Hatch Act and that the activities aren't actually a violation.

 

Here's the Hatch Act  https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/5/7323 and a casual reading does seem like it doesn't include anything about where federal employees can conduct their political activities (such as prohibiting doing it on federal property).

 

However, if you're in a discussion with anyone about it, you can reference "A Guide to the Hatch Act for Federal Employees" from the US Office of Special Counsel (OSC). That's the government department which is actually tasked with investigating and prosecuting Hatch Act violations. This guide takes into account various precedents arising from previous prosecutions and advisory opinions from the OSC over the decades since the Hatch Act was implemented.

 

https://osc.gov/Documents/Outreach and Training/Handouts/A Guide to the Hatch Act for Federal Employees.pdf

 

The center column of page 2 directly says employees working in the Executive Branch "May not engage in political activity...while the employee is on duty, in any federal room or building".

 

At the bottom of the page it notes the penalties for violating the Hatch Act which can include such things as removal from federal service, reduction in grade, debarment from being employed by the federal government for up to 5 years, and a $1000 fine.

 

I wouldn't expect the Trump administration to allow prosecutions under the Hatch Act. But a Biden administration could prosecute and time the prosecution so these Trumpsters couldn't immediately serve in a subsequent Republican administration. 

 

(If you don't like the handy dandy short reference guide version, here it is in the more detailed form  https://osc.gov/Services/Pages/HatchAct-Federal.aspx#tabGroup12 )

 

 

[DShomshak]

15 hours ago, archer said:

 

Taking both the water and the brine within the water out of the Gulf would make me think that there'd be, at most, minimal ecological impacts from changing the brine balance there.

 

If they removed the water then put the brine back into the Gulf, I could see that having a huge ecological impact though.

Apparently the problems could arise from all the coral larvae and other plankton getting sucked in -- enough that it could seriously impact the coral reefs in the Gulf of Aqaba, which are important for other reasons. The marine biologist who discussed this says the ecological impact could be minimized by placing the intake pipe more than 400 feet deep. This would cost more and take longer -- think construction workers in diving suits -- but this project is already projected to cost hundreds of millions of dollars. The added cost should not be that great, compared to the total cost. But one must never underestimate the short-sightedness of government budgeters.

 

Dean Shomshak

 

 

[ScottishFox]

20 hours ago, csyphrett said:

Apparently he was there from Illinois with an armed militia, and the police didn't disperse the idiots, but instead drove the protestors toward them. He's getting charged with intentional homicide, but may claim self defense because he might have been afraid for his life.

CES 

 

The video of the incident clearly shows the kid getting knocked down and multiple people moving towards him (one of them armed with a handgun supposedly) with bad intentions.

 

At least a couple of the people he shot - he did so while prone as they tried to take his rifle.

It's clearly self-defense and not in the sense he might have been afraid.  He was actively being attacked by a number of people.

 

Also, is there a way for me to make these linked video images smaller?

 

 

 

 

 

[Sociotard]

Self defense in the feedback loop sense. The protestors thought he was coming armed against them, so they rushed, the way people fantasize they will in a spree shooter incident.

[Cancer]

48 minutes ago, Ternaugh said:

I hear Otisburg is nice, though it is a little bitty place.

 

 

:1,$s/Lex/Trump/g

[Dr. MID-Nite]

As a frequent international traveler, I can honestly say I've never been more ashamed to say I'm from America. 

[ScottishFox]

New video footage has come up that shows rioters chasing the 17 year old shooter into a parking lot and firing the first shot (though it looked like the guy fired into the air).

 

Not sure firing your handgun into the air to intimidate the rifle-wielding militia guy your chasing is a smart play.  Especially as you and several of your associates are chasing him.

 

The video is caught by Christiaan Triebert who I believe works at the NY Times.

 

 

 

 

[Pattern Ghost]

Whether the shootings were justifiable as self defense, what was a 17 year old doing walking the street with a loaded rifle?

 

He was breaking the law by simply being there armed. There's no provision in Wisconson law for minors to be walking around with a loaded weapon outside of adult supervised sporting activities. This seems likely to hurt his case. The prosecutor will likely paint him as out looking for trouble, and only having had to defend himself because he found  it.

[TrickstaPriest]

23 minutes ago, Pattern Ghost said:

He was breaking the law by simply being there armed. There's no provision in Wisconson law for minors to be walking around with a loaded weapon outside of adult supervised sporting activities. This seems likely to hurt his case. The prosecutor will likely paint him as out looking for trouble, and only having had to defend himself because he found  it.

 

The literal conversation I hear around this is about how this poor kid's life is over because he probably hung out on the wrong online forum and listened to the wrong people 😕 

 

He crossed state lines too from what I hear.  That's bad for him.

 

This is not unlike the foreign kid who was encouraged, recruited, trained for a 'terrorist cell' that turned out to be 100% staffed by federal officers.  They literally coerced, recruited, and trained a terrorist kid so they could arrest him.

 

Like in that incident, someone's life was basically destroyed, but what can you do to administrate justice in that circumstance?  Do you punish the kid, or the rest of society?

 

More problematic to me is how Anne Coulter is saying the kid should be President.  That others are hefting him up as a hero.

 

Believe me, I've directly encouraged the equivalent type of person on the left to NOT bring firearms to a protest explicitly.  I may have saved that person's future by doing so, at least for a while.

[csyphrett]

Before Rittenhouse shot the guy with the skateboard and the guy with a handgun, he shot an unarmed protestor down the street. This is like the guy with the bow and arrow they pulled out of his car.

 

CES   

[Pattern Ghost]

1 hour ago, TrickstaPriest said:

The literal conversation I hear around this is about how this poor kid's life is over because he probably hung out on the wrong online forum and listened to the wrong people 😕 

 

Probably true.

[TrickstaPriest]

27 minutes ago, csyphrett said:

Before Rittenhouse shot the guy with the skateboard and the guy with a handgun, he shot an unarmed protestor down the street. This is like the guy with the bow and arrow they pulled out of his car.

 

 

Is there any further information on that?

4 minutes ago, Pattern Ghost said:

Probably true.

 

I know of people who are a part of (and keep an eye on) those kinds of forums.  This very much falls into that pattern 😕

[Pattern Ghost]

2 minutes ago, TrickstaPriest said:

I know of people who are a part of (and keep an eye on) those kinds of forums.  This very much falls into that pattern 😕

 

I think the kid is kind of a victim in this. He's at an age where he's likely to be held accountable for his actions, but is still very impressionable and has poor impulse control, and doesn't yet fully understand the consequences of his actions. I might have a little sympathy for him, but when people end up dead over something like this most of it evaporates.

[TrickstaPriest]

13 minutes ago, Pattern Ghost said:

I think the kid is kind of a victim in this. He's at an age where he's likely to be held accountable for his actions, but is still very impressionable and has poor impulse control, and doesn't yet fully understand the consequences of his actions. I might have a little sympathy for him, but when people end up dead over something like this most of it evaporates.

 

Yeah, that's why I thought of the kid who was literally groomed to be a terrorist so he could be arrested.  In this case he was grabbed after the rest of the 'cell' confirmed he was going to enact 'the plan'.  He was a victim, but after things have gone so far over the line... what do you even do?

[Old Man]

3 hours ago, TrickstaPriest said:

 

He crossed state lines too from what I hear.  That's bad for him.

 

 

The best part is that the kid tried to turn himself in after the shooting, and the police ignored him, so he went home. Across state lines. 

[csyphrett]

Mil Journal Sentinel

In the first shooting, which occurred a minute-and-a-half earlier, he faces a first-degree reckless homicide charge. Rosenbaum was shot multiple times in the Car Source car lot at 63rd Street and Sheridan Road.

The complaint says Rosenbaum suffered gunshot wounds to the groin, back, and hand. He had a graze wound on the right side of his forehead and a superficial wound on his left thigh, the complaint says.

Law enforcement had earlier said he was shot in the head.

 

CBS New

The complaint claims that cell phone video showed Rosenbaum, who appeared to be unarmed, trailing behind Rittenhouse before throwing a plastic bag at him. As the pair approached a car, a loud bang is heard, followed by an unidentified male yelling an obscenity. When Rosenbaum gets close to Rittenhouse, another four bangs are heard. 

McGinnis told investigators that at the time of the shooting, Rosenbaum was trying to take Rittenhouse's gun, according to the complaint. 

Rosenbaum was hit and fell to the ground. McGinnis began administrating first aid, the complaint said, adding that McGinnis was allegedly in the line of fire when the shooting occurred. Rittenhouse is charged with endangering him.

 

[archer]

In President Trump's acceptance speech at the convention, he promised that Biden if elected president would make every city like Portland.

 

I don't know how many of you have actually been to Portland but it is one of the most beautiful cities I've ever visited. Lots of trees, greenery, and rainfall. 

 

I'm not exactly sure how President Biden will make cities like Phoenix, Dallas, and Salt Lake City have copious rainfall and lots of trees. But I'm anxious to find out. 

[Starlord]

I would definitely vote for

4 hours ago, archer said:

I'm not exactly sure how President Biden will make cities like Phoenix, Dallas, and Salt Lake City have copious rainfall and lots of trees. But I'm anxious to find out. 

 

I would definitely vote for the guy who creates the Genesis Device...then again, maybe not.

[Grailknight]

3 hours ago, Starlord said:

I would definitely vote for

 

I would definitely vote for the guy who creates the Genesis Device...then again, maybe not.

 

Only if i'm one of the people who get to watch it's firing from space.

[TrickstaPriest]

Forgot to mention - no one's talking about Iowa

 

https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/images/147154/derecho-flattens-iowa-corn

[Simon]

Been wondering at the lack of news on the national scale.  It's all over the news locally -- 140mph winds registered in Cedar Rapids...essentially a Cat 4 hurricane (though to be fair, those wind speeds weren't sustained).

Our immediate area was only lightly hit by it -- no major damages -- but IA was hammered.

Also Trump's response was...lacking.  He signed off on federal disaster aid, but only on the minimum, giving federal funds to cleanup municipal areas.  He did not sign off on giving disaster assistance to the actual people impacted.

[BoloOfEarth]

10 minutes ago, Simon said:

Also Trump's response was...lacking.  He signed off on federal disaster aid, but only on the minimum, giving federal funds to cleanup municipal areas.  He did not sign off on giving disaster assistance to the actual people impacted.

 

I'm surprised, since he only has about a 1-2% lead there (as opposed to in March when he had about a 6-10% lead).  Because let's be honest, that's all he really cares about and really drives his actions.

 

Of course, he'll spin it as if he's providing major assistance to all, because why should petty little things like facts stand in the way?