Political Discussion Thread (With Rules)

[Pariah]

3 hours ago, archer said:

What we need in California is more fires, not fewer....

 

https://www.propublica.org/article/they-know-how-to-prevent-megafires-why-wont-anybody-listen

 

That's a really interesting article. Thanks for posting it.

[Starlord]

Trump campaign uses image of Russian jets for Support Our Troops ad

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[wcw43921]

Scientific American Endorses Biden.  The first such endorsement in the publication's history.

[Cygnia]

This is barbaric.

 

Staggering Number of Hysterectomies Happening at ICE Facility, Whistleblower Says

Quote

 

A whistleblower complaint filed Monday by several legal advocacy groups accuses a detention center of performing a staggering number of hysterectomies on immigrant women, as well as failing to follow procedures meant to keep both detainees and employees safe from the coronavirus.
The complaint, filed on behalf of several detained immigrants and a nurse named Dawn Wooten, details several accounts of recent “jarring medical neglect” at the Irwin County Detention Center in Ocilla, Georgia, which is run by the private prison company LaSalle South Corrections and houses people incarcerated by Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE). In interviews with Project South, a Georgia nonprofit, multiple women said that hysterectomies were stunningly frequent among immigrants detained at the facility.

 

[Ranxerox]

2 hours ago, Cygnia said:

This is barbaric.

 

Staggering Number of Hysterectomies Happening at ICE Facility, Whistleblower Says

 

 

Yes, it is barbaric.

 

I was sure that this had to be illegal under US law, but so far I have not been able to find any evidence that it is.  In 1927 the Supreme Court ruled in Buck vs Bell that state statute permitting compulsory sterilization did not violate the 14th Amendment.  This ruling has never been overturned.  Nor, as far as I can ascertain, has any federal law forbidding forced sterilization been passed in the intervening 97 years.  California has as state law against it, but that was passed in 2013!  Forced sterilization is not illegal under Georgia law.  Though IANAL much less one with a license to practice in Georgia, so I can't say that there aren't any laws on the books in Georgia that these women might be able avail themselves on in the pursuit of justice.

Edited September 16, 2020 by Ranxerox
fixed some typos and other small errors

[Hermit]

I hope this is wrong, pray it's wrong. That this didn't happen.

 

But, we're in Trump's America, and it's not like the first time in our history we've pulled something like this. I just thought we'd outgrown crossing this particular line

[DShomshak]

A couple weeks back Radio Lab aired a program on the history of eugenics and forced sterilization, and modern efforts to repeal those laws and overturn Buck v Bell. One impediment has been people saying, "Oh, this couldn't happen anymore."

 

I am also reminded of another radio documentary I heard longer ago, on the common roots of the anti-immigrant movement and Zero Population Growth in racism. Gotta keep out those brown people, y'know, they breed like rabbits and will exhaust the resources for superior white people. If true, it looks like someone thinks they've found a new way to ensure eugenic purity.

 

If we've learned anything, it's that lines will always be crossed unless there are firm and explicit laws against it, with unavoidable penalties for doing so. Old-style conservatives are right in one thing: Society needs solid institutional boundaries, because you cannot count on innate human goodness, wisdom or forbearance.

 

Dean Shomshak

[Dr. MID-Nite]

Nothing surprises me in pre fascist America anymore. I feel like I've been in a recurring nightmare for years from which I will never awake....

[Old Man]

“Pre” fascist?

[archer]

16 hours ago, Pariah said:

 

That's a really interesting article. Thanks for posting it.

 

I used to read the blog of an author until he passed away a couple of years ago.

 

He'd bought a home in the hills above Hollywood in something like the late 1950's. Back at that time, the county would go out into the hills and cut out the underbrush in order to reduce the fire hazard. 

 

When the ecology movement really kicked in during the late 60's and early 70's, the county bought into the idea of letting unimproved areas around the city grow wild. 

 

Since that time, they've had a continued problem with wildfires...followed by mudslides because the fires would yearly burn out everything which was holding the soil in place.

 

He'd rant about it every time the county would need to evacuate people in the area. Or mudslides would block roads and endanger his neighbor's homes. 

[archer]

4 hours ago, Ranxerox said:

 

Yes, it is barbaric.

 

I was sure that this had to be illegal under US law, but so far I have not been able to find any evidence that it is.  In 1927 the Supreme Court ruled in Buck vs Bell that state statute permitting compulsory sterilization did not violate the 14th Amendment.  This ruling has never been overturned.  Nor, as far as I can ascertain, has any federal law forbidding forced sterilization been passed in the intervening 97 years.  California has as state law against it, but that was passed in 2013!  Forced sterilization is not illegal under Georgia law.  Though IANAL much less one with a license to practice in Georgia, so I can't say that there aren't any laws on the books in Georgia that these women might be able avail themselves on in the pursuit of justice.

 

https://matsne.gov.ge/en/document/download/16978/7/en/pdf#:~:text=No medical care shall be,in the legislation of Georgia.

 

LAW OF GEORGIA ON PATIENT RIGHTS

 

Chapter IV - Consent

 

Article 22

 

1. In order to provide medical care to a patient, it shall be required to obtain the informed consent from the patient or from a relative or a legal representative of the patient if the patient is a minor or unable to make a conscious decision. Informed consent shall precede the medical care.

 

2. A written informed consent shall be necessary for the following medical services:

 

a) any surgical operation, except for small surgical procedures

b) abortion

c) surgical contraception – sterilisation

d) catheterisation of great vessels

e) haemodialysis and peritoneal dialysis

f) extracorporeal fertilisation

g) genetic testing

h) gene therapy

i) radiation therapy

j) chemotherapy of malignant tumours

k) in all other cases when medical care providers consider that written informed consent is necessary.

 

3. It shall be necessary to obtain the written informed consent when providing medical care to a patient who is a minor or unable to make a conscious decision. Law of Georgia No 3379 of 20 March 201

 

Article 23

 

1. Patients who are incapacitated or unable to make conscious decisions may refuse medical care at any stage, and also terminate medical care that is in process. Patients shall be fully informed about the expected consequences if they refuse to receive or they terminate medical care.

 

2. No medical care shall be carried out against the will of a patient who is competent and able to make conscious decisions, except for cases defined in the legislation of Georgia.

 

.

.

.

So basically unless the provider can point to a specific law passed by the Georgia state legislature saying that "doctors can perform forced sterilizations without the consent of the woman", the doctor and that facility have been breaking Georgia state law by not getting consent from the patient in writing.

[TrickstaPriest]

35 minutes ago, archer said:

When the ecology movement really kicked in during the late 60's and early 70's, the county bought into the idea of letting unimproved areas around the city grow wild. 

 

 

That's pretty wild.  It's pretty common known environmental policy to cull certain types of animals, make controlled burns, clear brush... etc.

[archer]

6 minutes ago, TrickstaPriest said:

 

That's pretty wild.  It's pretty common known environmental policy to cull certain types of animals, make controlled burns, clear brush... etc.

 

 Not sure if you read the article I posted upthread about how impossible it is to get permission to actually do a controlled burn.

[TrickstaPriest]

3 minutes ago, archer said:

 Not sure if you read the article I posted upthread about how impossible it is to get permission to actually do a controlled burn.

 

I must have overlooked that - I read through a large portion of it.  I just know how it's managed in my area.  I'll dig into it again for that portion, because that part I found confusing.

[TrickstaPriest]

Ever so relevant:

 

http://www.threepanelsoul.com/comic/a-wdix-special-report

[DShomshak]

14 hours ago, Old Man said:

“Pre” fascist?

Given that you feel safe enough to make posts like this, yes.

 

Dean Shomshak

[wcw43921]

Openly Gay Candidate Hits Back After Police Union Insults Him

[csyphrett]

28 minutes ago, wcw43921 said:

Openly Gay Candidate Hits Back After Police Union Insults Him

How was I to know I wasn't supposed to talk on the internet like that to one of my bosses

CES 

[unclevlad]

19 hours ago, TrickstaPriest said:

 

That's pretty wild.  It's pretty common known environmental policy to cull certain types of animals, make controlled burns, clear brush... etc.

 

But not among a subsection that has no clue about the environment, and views everything like this through rose-colored blinders.  Wild Areas Must Be WIld!!!!  <sigh>  They go ballistic because...yeah, going on in, thinning trees and undergrowth, maybe even doing a controlled burn (PROPERLY, let me specify...controlled burns have gone out of control) will disturb all the little creatures that are there!  They don't even consider the consequence down the line.

 

I still remember...rather a LONG time ago...pine beetles took out a fairly large chunk of trees that happened to be on public lands, technically.  Nothing was done...so there was...gosh, I don't remember...probably few thousand square foot chunk of dead trees, with dried out needes, with pine sap pushed forward because that's how the trees fought back.  The branches would've been bone dry too;  the trunks would go up like an inverted matchstick from the sap.  So several households got together and cleared them all out...before a major fire did, one that would've practically...probably even literally...have exploded within minutes to cover the entire area.  And then spread.

 

I believe several of Colorado's fires have similar stories;  getting in to clear out what NEEDS to get cleared out, is often made much more difficult than it should be.

 

 

[assault]

20 hours ago, TrickstaPriest said:

 

That's pretty wild.  It's pretty common known environmental policy to cull certain types of animals, make controlled burns, clear brush... etc.

Every fire season in Australia, "greenies" are accused of being responsible, because they supposedly prevent hazard reduction burning, etc.

This is despite (a) the stated policies of all the serious environmental organizations; and

(b) the complete inability of such organizations to actually set policy.

 

Coincidentally, these accusations overwhelmingly come from climate change denialists, and often politicians that have acted to cut funding to fire preparedness measures and fire brigades.

So seeing these arguments pop up in the USA is something less than surprising.

[TrickstaPriest]

2 hours ago, assault said:

Every fire season in Australia, "greenies" are accused of being responsible, because they supposedly prevent hazard reduction burning, etc.

This is despite (a) the stated policies of all the serious environmental organizations; and

(b) the complete inability of such organizations to actually set policy.

 

Coincidentally, these accusations overwhelmingly come from climate change denialists, and often politicians that have acted to cut funding to fire preparedness measures and fire brigades.

So seeing these arguments pop up in the USA is something less than surprising.

 

I literally worked with CPMAB and the CPBC out of AZ.  The people they work with know how to manage fires, foliage, and so on.  They don't exactly hide their knowledge with their partners in other states as far as I know.

 

So I'm immediately dubious on some of those claims.  But there may be exceptions?  Policy, leadership, communication, experience... also, they have like no money.

[Badger]

Well, controlled burns and getting rid of old foliage shed be common knowledge to anyone. Learned that in 6th grade.

 

More example of current education system not being worth a damn.

 

No offense to the teachers who actually do seem to teach, of course.

[Starlord]

Yes, the US military has had a working 'heat ray' for almost 20 years and, according to a whistleblower, the Trump admin has attempted to use it against migrants and DC protestors

[Ternaugh]

1 hour ago, Starlord said:

Yes, the US military has had a working 'heat ray' for almost 20 years and, according to a whistleblower, the Trump admin has attempted to use it against migrants and DC protestors

 

I remember this system from news stories at the time of the weapon system development. Though the article didn't mention it, one of the long-term issues was possible damage to the eyes, including cataracts.

[TrickstaPriest]

...Kinda lends credence to my thought that protest is dead.  Soon, you too will have no way to make the government care about you at all.

 

I guess we can watch Belarus as a perfect example of this.