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Just now, Hermit said:

I predict that if Trump doesn't become symptomatic, he will portray this as bad as it gets, and what are folks whining about? If it does, well, he's got some of the best medical care the US Govt can afford on standby... and will probably try to make sure that even if he gets near to death he'll act like it was no big deal. He lies about everything anyway, and wants to be seen as 'strong' so yeah, he'll bull@#@ his way through this.

 

And spread misinformation galore anew, this time convincing trumpkins 'See, it was over hyped those who died were wimps or something'

 

Everything you said is well within the boundaries of reasonability, and we’ve known each other for ... 15 years, Hermit? Not super close but we’ve been on this board together for a minute, and i have the highest respect for you. So I know, for a fact, that the rolling sickening feeling as I read what you wrote isn’t from you having written it. It’s that we live in a world where it can be contemplated at all. I am going to return to lurking for a bit. Until someone says something I can’t keep mum about.

 

So... five mini?

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1 minute ago, Hermit said:

Sorry, Thia.

 

No apology needed. You didn’t do this. That was my point. I’m just tired of living a nightmare and not sleeping because I’m raising my daughter in the United States. We need better and we should be doing better, and yet “things” keep holding us back. All the posts I’m writing are heavily edited, partially to prove to myself I can do it, and largely because I know screaming about it won’t get me anywhere. SO.

 

I appreciate the thought, and for the record, I accept your apology in the way it was intended, but no need. 

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15 hours ago, Thia Halmades said:

Here’s where I potentially veer into trouble, but I’ll make it plain: Any vote that is not for Biden, is a vote for Trump, mathematically speaking. It’s not enough to want to vote Trump out, nor is it sufficient to vote for an alternative, non major party (i.e., Democrat). Your vote is part of the group vote that determines how your State votes and pushes the electoral college. 

 

My state is so heavily Red that my individual vote against Donald Trump is statistical noise. Utah hasn't cast its electoral college votes for a Democrat in my lifetime.

 

On the other hand, over 25% of Utah voters chose third-party candidates in the last presidential election. That's almost as many votes as Hillary Clinton got. If we're ever going to break the Republican-Democratic duopoly in this country, we need more results like that.

 

So no, I don't agree with your assertion that any vote not for Biden is a vote for Trump. I understand and appreciate the sentiment, but it's simply not true in my case.

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27 minutes ago, Pariah said:

 

My state is so heavily Red that my individual vote against Donald Trump is statistical noise. Utah hasn't cast its electoral college votes for a Democrat in my lifetime.

 

On the other hand, over 25% of Utah voters chose third-party candidates in the last presidential election. That's almost as many votes as Hillary Clinton got. If we're ever going to break the Republican-Democratic duopoly in this country, we need more results like that.

 

So no, I don't agree with your assertion that any vote not for Biden is a vote for Trump. I understand and appreciate the sentiment, but it's simply not true in my case.

 

I disagree, your math is off; it’s not whether they voted 3rd party, it’s the system. In other words, if all the people who voted 3rd party instead voted democrat, then the State could potentially flip. This bears out my assertion, that in this environment, because it is first past the post, step one is breaking through that. Step two is changing the mechanics of voting. Because the State was split, it voted red. We can agree to disagree but I’m not convinced by your argument, I see it as reinforcement of my point.

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34 minutes ago, DShomshak said:

 

I just hope Biden wasn't exposed Tuesday night, from Trump's hyperventilating performance. That would be just so 2020.

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2020/10/02/joe-biden-covid-test-negative-after-donald-trump-positive-test/5894403002/

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20 minutes ago, Old Man said:

The outlook for Trump's covid case

 

Tl;dr: Between his obesity and the statin he takes, 50-50 odds he winds up in the hospital.

 

He should have followed his own advice - after all, if he wouldn't have gotten tested, then he wouldn't have a positive result.

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19 minutes ago, Lord Liaden said:

Because of Trump's positive test result, this issue is getting a lot of legal and political consideration around the world: What happens if a presidential nominee can't finish the campaign?

 

I was wondering the same.

 

And as much as people joke, I don't wish great ill on him.  Just a small amount of ill.

 

But I won't never forgive him for essentially bumping the Proud Boys' recruitment and directing them to violence the way he did.  I've been aware of Gavin McInnes for a while, and the things' he said while leading them.

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3 minutes ago, TrickstaPriest said:

 

I was wondering the same.

 

And as much as people joke, I don't wish great ill on him.  Just a small amount of ill.

 

But I won't never forgive him for essentially bumping the Proud Boys' recruitment and directing them to violence the way he did.  I've been aware of Gavin McInnes for a while, and the things' he said while leading them.

 

If we are in the same camp, @TrickstaPriest, and I believe we are, you might get some enjoyment from a Podcast called Knowledge Fight

 

Parental Advisory. Explicit Content. I have no affiliation to the podcast, just calling it out as something I enjoy and think you might as well.

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15 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

Absolutely. The biggest takeaway from Trump's leaked taxes isn't that he paid so little. He paid so little because his businesses have been bleeding money for years. Trump is heavily in debt, as in hundreds of millions of dollars in loans. Not only does this highlight his failure as a businessman, it makes him extremely vulnerable to outside coercion. And most of those loans are coming due in the next few years. If he's still President then, he'll have all of America for collateral.

My

wednesday paper had a pair of AP analysis articles on this. One headline said, "Trump can handle $300 million debt, experts say."

 

"According to Forbes' latest valuation, even pandemic-reduced prices leave Trump with $2.5 billion worth of proerties and other assets, and that s after subtracting his $1.2 billion in deby."

 

He can sell his interest in a couple properties and get $500 million, easy-peasy. As for his low taxes and claimed losses, that's just high-end real estate SOP. The laws are so generous and riddled with loopholes that an investor can manufacture losses and expenses virtually at will.

 

OTOH, the second article's headline goes, "Ethics experts see national security concern in Trump's debt." And some of these people cannot be dismissed as frothing liberal crackpots or Democratic partisans.

 

"Richard Painter, who served as chief ethics attorney in Republican George W. Bush's White House, also noted that Trump-owned companies have declared bankruptcy sis times, raising the question: Why have lenders been willing to keep risking loans of such enormous amounts.

 

"'Why would banks assume the risks of these loans?' Pinter said. 'Or did someone else quietoy assume risk of that loan for the bank to make it happen?'"

 

So it's not tinfoil hat territory to wonder who Trump really owes, and what they hope to gain that's worth more than a few hundred million dollars. Though, vide Old Man's post above, I can't help wondering if Trump might lie about his Covid test to distract people from his finances. Probably not; but only because he has other outrages to use as distractions.

 

Dean Shomshak

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CNN is reporting:

 

Quote

The president of Notre Dame has tested positive for Covid-19 nearly a week after he attended a White House event where he was spotted without a mask.

Fr. John Jenkins tested positive and is now isolated with mild symptoms, according to a message from the school sent to members of the Campus Community Friday afternoon.

<snip>
He was seen at the announcement shaking hands and not wearing a mask.

 

The chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee was also there, and has tested positive.

 

It's what happens when you decide you're gonna play with fire.  

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I have so many questions. 
 

Why did Trump risk a covid test if there was any chance he might have gotten a positive result?

 

How much bleach will he be injecting, and how often?

 

Why is he suddenly pushing a Democrat hoax?

 

Is he considered an essential worker?

 

What if the economy takes a hit from his isolation? Shouldn’t he get back to work?  Aren’t the nation’s elderly supposed to be willing to die for the economy?

 

Does the state of Minnesota have any orders in effect regarding large gatherings or mask wearing?

 

At what point does Trump become incapacitated enough for Pence to take over? Hospitalization? Oxygen? Ventilator? 
 

Would it have spread to him if he hadn’t downplayed the threat in February?  Would it have spread to him if he hadn’t politicized the wearing of masks?

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1 hour ago, DShomshak said:

My

wednesday paper had a pair of AP analysis articles on this. One headline said, "Trump can handle $300 million debt, experts say."

 

"According to Forbes' latest valuation, even pandemic-reduced prices leave Trump with $2.5 billion worth of proerties and other assets, and that s after subtracting his $1.2 billion in deby."

 

He can sell his interest in a couple properties and get $500 million, easy-peasy. As for his low taxes and claimed losses, that's just high-end real estate SOP. The laws are so generous and riddled with loopholes that an investor can manufacture losses and expenses virtually at will.

 

 

I'm not sure how easy-peasy it's going to go. A very big part of Trump's declared worth has been his estimate of his "brand," i.e. how putting his name on things makes them more saleable. That number was generated by himself, and has to be taken with the same bushel-basket of salt as all his other declarations. Moreover, Trump's brand has been seriously damaged by his own conduct, particularly  while in office. On top of that, his properties are over-valued. His hotels and resorts have been big money-losers, probably the major reason he keeps diverting state visits to them.  If he sells his properties it will likely be at a big loss, if anyone buys them at all.

 

1 hour ago, DShomshak said:

OTOH, the second article's headline goes, "Ethics experts see national security concern in Trump's debt." And some of these people cannot be dismissed as frothing liberal crackpots or Democratic partisans.

 

"Richard Painter, who served as chief ethics attorney in Republican George W. Bush's White House, also noted that Trump-owned companies have declared bankruptcy sis times, raising the question: Why have lenders been willing to keep risking loans of such enormous amounts.

 

"'Why would banks assume the risks of these loans?' Pinter said. 'Or did someone else quietoy assume risk of that loan for the bank to make it happen?'"

 

So it's not tinfoil hat territory to wonder who Trump really owes, and what they hope to gain that's worth more than a few hundred million dollars. Though, vide Old Man's post above, I can't help wondering if Trump might lie about his Covid test to distract people from his finances. Probably not; but only because he has other outrages to use as distractions.

 

Dean Shomshak

 

I remember reading that some years ago, Trump sold a luxury yacht to raise some quick cash, to the Saudi royal family. What they paid for it was quite generous, too. If the al Saud family did Trump a favor, it would explain a lot of his presidential conduct toward them.

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46 minutes ago, Old Man said:

I have so many questions. 
 

Why did Trump risk a covid test if there was any chance he might have gotten a positive result?

 

How much bleach will he be injecting, and how often?

 

Why is he suddenly pushing a Democrat hoax?

 

Is he considered an essential worker?

 

What if the economy takes a hit from his isolation? Shouldn’t he get back to work?  Aren’t the nation’s elderly supposed to be willing to die for the economy?

 

Does the state of Minnesota have any orders in effect regarding large gatherings or mask wearing?

 

At what point does Trump become incapacitated enough for Pence to take over? Hospitalization? Oxygen? Ventilator? 
 

Would it have spread to him if he hadn’t downplayed the threat in February?  Would it have spread to him if he hadn’t politicized the wearing of masks?

 

It may be soon for Pence to take over: https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-be-transported-walter-reed-medical-center-marine-one-helicopter-n1241899

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https://www.cnbc.com/2020/10/02/president-trump-being-taken-to-walter-reed-military-medical-center-as-a-precautionary-measure.html

 

Trump is being taken to Walter Reed Medical Center, not that there's anything wrong with him.

 

I expect his press spokesperson to announce, "Trump is the healthiest person ever who is still president."

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1 hour ago, Old Man said:

I have so many questions. 
 

Why did Trump risk a covid test if there was any chance he might have gotten a positive result?

 

How much bleach will he be injecting, and how often?

 

Why is he suddenly pushing a Democrat hoax?

 

Is he considered an essential worker?

 

What if the economy takes a hit from his isolation? Shouldn’t he get back to work?  Aren’t the nation’s elderly supposed to be willing to die for the economy?

 

Does the state of Minnesota have any orders in effect regarding large gatherings or mask wearing?

 

At what point does Trump become incapacitated enough for Pence to take over? Hospitalization? Oxygen? Ventilator? 
 

Would it have spread to him if he hadn’t downplayed the threat in February?  Would it have spread to him if he hadn’t politicized the wearing of masks?

 

You missed an important question here - how does Trump's announcement affect the betting industry?   https://www.newsweek.com/2020-election-betting-suspended-trump-covid-1535938 - Trump may have found another way to cost backers money.

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1 hour ago, Old Man said:

I have so many questions. 
 

Why did Trump risk a covid test if there was any chance he might have gotten a positive result?

 

He's playing the sympathy "I'm one of you card."

 

Quote

 

How much bleach will he be injecting, and how often?

 

Not enough and not often enough.

 

Quote

 

Why is he suddenly pushing a Democrat hoax?

 

None of his Republican hoaxes are working. If you can't beat 'em, join 'em.

 

Quote

 

Is he considered an essential worker?

 

< giggles >

 

Quote

 

What if the economy takes a hit from his isolation? Shouldn’t he get back to work?  Aren’t the nation’s elderly supposed to be willing to die for the economy?

 

Probably everyone took a hit just as soon as they heard the news. Some people took two hits.

 

He's watching cable news and playing with his phone so his official work schedule is unaltered. He's curtailing campaign events.

 

Yes, the elderly are supposed to be willing to die for the economy but it was implied that only the losers would actually die.

 

Quote

 

Does the state of Minnesota have any orders in effect regarding large gatherings or mask wearing?

 

Yes, and the president's event violated those rules just as they've violated rules in other states. But no governor has been willing to block the presidential motorcade to the event or to block spectators from attending.

 

Quote

At what point does Trump become incapacitated enough for Pence to take over? Hospitalization? Oxygen? Ventilator? 
 

Would it have spread to him if he hadn’t downplayed the threat in February?  Would it have spread to him if he hadn’t politicized the wearing of masks?

 

If the president has the ability to become conscious and doesn't want to turn over power, he doesn't have to...short of the cabinet invoking the 25th amendment.

 

A person on a ventilator is put under by drugs so at that point, Pence would take over temporarily regardless of whether Trump would want him to or not.

 

The "spreading to him" questions are impossible to answer definitively. I doubt it would have spread to him just because it wouldn't have become as widespread in general, the people around him would have been taking precautions consistently, and the president wouldn't be going out to do campaign events.

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