Political Discussion Thread (With Rules)

[Old Man]

It's just so awesome to see Beelzebub and the occult get significant airtime in mainstream political discussions.  But what is the exact relationship?  Is Pence possessed by Beelzebub, or just a devoted servant?  And where is Trump in the hierarchy?  If he's the Antichrist, does he report to Beelzebub or vice versa?  Is there an org chart?

[TrickstaPriest]

We laugh, but this situation is unforgivable.  And I wholly blame Fox and others for this too.

 

Because the difference between this and an Impeachment?  It's almost like if the impeachment was done like Trump saying Biden should be arrested, then Trump would be in prison right now.  But your representatives were allowed to weigh in, both houses, and Trump is still in power.

 

Trump is not giving anyone else that privilege, and has (and is) trying to escalate things as much as he can get away with.

 

This situation isn't 'caused by democrats', because we aren't the ones talking about killing, kidnapping, exiling, arresting, as a joke or otherwise.  Not our officials, not our news.  Sometimes our populace, but our leaders are not.

 

Trump is.  He's created this.  On purpose.

 

His call for arrest, and his fanning of these situations. 

 

This is irredeemable.

 

 

 

[unclevlad]

While there is still a wide gulf between what happened in Michigan and a movement like Al Qaeda, the bone-chilling aspect for me is...it still feels like they've achieved the breach of the outer wall.  Look at the similarities...organized attempts to recruit, organized training, attempting to develop IEDs (that is harder than you might think), an attempt to justify their terrorism through warped ideals.

 

So here's a question.  How many similar cells are going, well ok boys, don't be *@#$ idiots like those Michigan morons;  they've made everything that much harder.  Cuz now people know we're out there.  So they change tactics...and become harder to catch and harder to stop.

[TrickstaPriest]

5 minutes ago, unclevlad said:

So here's a question.  How many similar cells are going, well ok boys, don't be *@#$ idiots like those Michigan morons;  they've made everything that much harder.  Cuz now people know we're out there.  So they change tactics...and become harder to catch and harder to stop.

 

Literally the culmination of what I've been saying for years in this presidency.  It doesn't matter how 'good' you think your president is when he's burning down the foundation of your entire country.

[archer]

1 hour ago, Old Man said:

It's just so awesome to see Beelzebub and the occult get significant airtime in mainstream political discussions.  But what is the exact relationship?  Is Pence possessed by Beelzebub, or just a devoted servant?  And where is Trump in the hierarchy?  If he's the Antichrist, does he report to Beelzebub or vice versa?  Is there an org chart?

 

I Googled "Pence organizational chart of hell" which didn't get me much useful information.

 

I then tried Pence lord of the flies and found this one:

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/custommagic/comments/j7ccg7/mike_pence_lord_of_flies/

[Old Man]

41 minutes ago, archer said:

 

I Googled "Pence organizational chart of hell" which didn't get me much useful information.

 

I then tried Pence lord of the flies and found this one:

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/custommagic/comments/j7ccg7/mike_pence_lord_of_flies/

That’s hilarious, but where’s the part about how he’s controlled by whoever has Mother in play?

[unclevlad]

2 hours ago, TrickstaPriest said:

I'm taking back every kind word I said about Trump.

 

As he's now calling for the sudden arrest of his political opponent.

 

Not just Biden.  He's including Obama and Clinton.  WTF...

I'm not worried any arrests are going to happen.  I am TERRIFIED that someone this wlidly unstable has to potential to do so much havoc.  It honestly feels like he is completely losing anything resembling control he had before.  I seriously wonder if he's mentally competent right now.   I mean, ok, before this I could generally see method behind the madness, but not now.  

[TrickstaPriest]

3 minutes ago, unclevlad said:

 

Not just Biden.  He's including Obama and Clinton.  WTF...

I'm not worried any arrests are going to happen.  I am TERRIFIED that someone this wlidly unstable has to potential to do so much havoc.  It honestly feels like he is completely losing anything resembling control he had before.  I seriously wonder if he's mentally competent right now.   I mean, ok, before this I could generally see method behind the madness, but not now.  

 

Like I said, I take back any kindness I had for him, and anything forgiving I said.

 

He's either going to kill the future of the republican party, or this country.  I don't see this country having a future if Trump's actions now feed the politicians of the future.

 

It only took one Boris Yeltsmen.

[unclevlad]

5 minutes ago, TrickstaPriest said:

He's either going to kill the future of the republican party, or this country. 

 

I don't say this flippantly...but I hope the Republican Party implodes because they get *crushed* in the elections, and the leadership is called to account for their abject willingness to sacrifice all their principles.  The counter-argument is, well...then what?  What would rise in its place?  

[TrickstaPriest]

5 minutes ago, unclevlad said:

 

I don't say this flippantly...but I hope the Republican Party implodes because they get *crushed* in the elections, and the leadership is called to account for their abject willingness to sacrifice all their principles.  The counter-argument is, well...then what?  What would rise in its place?  

 

Hopefully people like Bernie Sanders get more traction in a political system that has room for another party.  Because the idea of arguging against injustices from the government isn't something that we should let the literal extremists 'own'.

 

Biden is basically a Republican from years ago.  I would not bat an eye at the expectation of the 'Democrat' Party being essentially the republican party of the future, and hopefully a more liberal/leftwing party rising up to replace the Republican Party.

 

But that takes a lot of the supporters of the current Republican Party to be willing to push that change themselves.

[archer]

31 minutes ago, unclevlad said:

 

Not just Biden.  He's including Obama and Clinton.  WTF...

I'm not worried any arrests are going to happen.  I am TERRIFIED that someone this wlidly unstable has to potential to do so much havoc.  It honestly feels like he is completely losing anything resembling control he had before.  I seriously wonder if he's mentally competent right now.   I mean, ok, before this I could generally see method behind the madness, but not now.  

 

I can point to specific federal laws which Hillary admitted on camera which she broke in association with her emails. One time, I added up the number of those potential charges, crimes for which some people are currently sitting in federal prison, and came up with the combined sentences being somewhere far north of 30,000 years. Now I voted for her and actively campaigned for her anyway because she was/is so much better than Trump...which says more about Trump than it does Hillary.

 

But the FBI didn't want to her prosecuted on relatively minor procedural crimes in the Obama era. And Trump when he could have chosen to prosecute Hillary for those things has instead made zero attempt to do so.

 

But Trump isn't arguing to prosecute Hillary for that.

 

Biden has bragged, on camera, about how he withheld federal funds from Ukraine until it fired a prosecutor the US government didn't like. A prosecutor who just happened to be in charge of the (mostly inactive) criminal case investigating his son's company in that country. Biden's staff argued at the time that he should personally distance himself from the matter and let someone else handle it if it had to be done. I could see trying to argue Biden's involvement as a grounds for impeachment if Biden held public office at the moment, particularly in light of the Trump impeachment case. 

 

But Trump isn't arguing to "prosecute" Biden for that.

 

I could argue that Obama did some unethical things in regard to Fast and Furious. But Trump isn't bringing up that incident.

 

Trump's argument is that the intelligence services looked into the Russian connections of the Trump campaign staff because the intelligence services hated Trump rather than because his staff had a lot of provable continuing contacts with a hell of a lot of unsavory Russians.

 

But because the intelligence services couldn't conclusively prove that the Russian connections to his staff or the Russian meddling in the 2016 election was the one thing which caused the margin of victory for Trump...Trump is now saying that everyone who was involved in the investigation on any level or who knew anyone who was involved with the investigation on any level should be thrown in jail.

 

That is really "next level" mentally disturbed. And it isn't something Trump has been saying before this point in time.

 

I'm looking forward to whatever Pelosi is going to bring forward this week as a suggested refinement to the 25th amendment to remove a president from office for mental instability.

 

< /rant >

[Old Man]

1 hour ago, archer said:

 

I can point to specific federal laws which Hillary admitted on camera which she broke in association with her emails.

 

Can you post a link to that?  It'd be really handy to have.  Thanks!

[Badger]

I gotta be honest if the big about a debate is a fly. There were no winners.

[unclevlad]

2 hours ago, Badger said:

I gotta be honest if the big about a debate is a fly. There were no winners.

 

And even at that, it was still better than the first farce.
So I understand anyway.  I prefer to keep dinner inside.

[ScottishFox]

This one strikes shockingly close to home (I live in North Dallas area).

 

Local mayoral candidate busted on 109 felony charges of election fraud.

 

https://dfw.cbslocal.com/2020/10/08/carrollton-mayoral-candidate-zul-mirza-mohamed-arrested-voter-fraud/

 

From the article:

To find out who was behind the scheme, officials began a surveillance of the postal facility.

A box of the requested ballots was picked up at the location on October 7. Investigators followed the person, later identified as Mohamed, back to a home in the 1600 block of Bennington Drive in Carrollton and contacted a judge to get a search warrant for the house.  Once inside, deputies found the box containing the requested ballots, with several of them open. The fraudulent driver license used to rent the P.O. Box was also located during the search.

Sheriff Tracy Murphree said, “The fact an actual candidate for public office would engage in these activities is appalling.”

 

Basically he was having ballots sent en masse to his P.O. Box and got caught.

 

Early voting for us Texans starts in just a few days.

[TrickstaPriest]

This whole thing is going to be such a mess...

[Hermit]

8 hours ago, TrickstaPriest said:

This whole thing is going to be such a mess...

 

 

On EVERY Front...  Poll watchers are being sent out in greater numbers this year

 

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/10/08/trump-election-poll-watching-427008

[DShomshak]

Every Friday, the Marketplace radio program asks a few business reporters to comment on the news of the week. Today, one of them said, "Donald Trump is acting crazier than a bag of scorpions on meth."

 

Dean Shomshak

[Hermit]

And he's threatening Iran back on Rush's praise athon radio hour or whatever it is

 

“If you f#** around with us, if you do something bad to us, we are gonna do things to you that have never been done before.” 

 

I worry at times I'm almost USED to the embarrassment having him as our leader to the world brings. 

 

 

[unclevlad]

4 hours ago, Hermit said:

I worry at times I'm almost USED to the embarrassment having him as our leader to the world brings. 

 

 

Wouldn't you love to be a fly on the wall inside the RNC after he does some of these?

Cuz you gotta think they're feeling the same way, particularly these last couple weeks as he's gone completely off the rails.

 

I actually wonder what would happen if he tried to call for some military action that was badly out of line.  I wouldn't be surprised if the JCS said No.

[Old Man]

One thing that’s kind of being lost in this debacle is that it’s a major national security crisis. The White House is literally a disaster zone being cleaned up by FEMA. The Joint Chiefs are isolating. What happens if the Chinese roll into Taiwan, or if Putin picks up where he left off in Ukraine?  Not that a “healthy” Trump would handle those situations competently either, but right now there’s no one at the wheel. 

[archer]

There's been just WAY too much happening this past week to be able to include everything as a topic of conversation.

 

But Texas' governor proclaimed early in the month that most already-existing drop off boxes for ballots around the state had to be removed and that no county could have more than one. (Understand that some counties in Texas are larger than the state of Delaware and a heck of a lot of them are larger than Rhode Island.)

 

In addition to that, in order to put a ballot in the drop off box, you had to show ID and sign a document stating that you were dropping off your ballot.

 

In Houston, there were lines which were hours long *for the ballot drop-off box*. There had been twelve drop off boxes in that country before the governor ordered eleven of them removed because doing that would (among other things) "limit voter confusion".

 

Anyway, a federal judge overturned the governor's order...pointing out that Texas had multiple drop off boxes in previous elections with no signs of voter confusion or voter fraud.

 

https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/520460-federal-judge-shoots-down-texas-proclamation-allowing-one-ballot-drop

 

Also missed as a topic of conversation among the flurry of recent events, Ohio was ordered to rescind their "only one drop off box per county" rule.

 

 

As they say in Zombieland, "Enjoy the little things."

[Pariah]

8 hours ago, unclevlad said:

Wouldn't you love to be a fly on Mike Pence's head inside the RNC after he does some of these?

Cuz you gotta think they're feeling the same way, particularly these last couple weeks as he's gone completely off the rails.

 

Fixed that for ya.

[archer]

23 hours ago, Hermit said:

 

On EVERY Front...  Poll watchers are being sent out in greater numbers this year

 

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/10/08/trump-election-poll-watching-427008

 

Most states have official rules for poll watchers, which include training sessions and having to be signed up in advance for whichever polling location you're working. This is mostly a holdover from the days when precincts were small enough that someone would know most of the locals and would know if some outsider is coming in to impersonate Mr. Wilson (who most people only know as the top of a head and a hat sticking up over a backyard fence).

 

In those places for official poll watchers, they're allowed to stand in the area behind the poll workers and to step forward to observe someone as they are handing over their voter registration card, ID (in places where ID is required), and to compare the signature that person makes on the voter roll to that which is on the registration card and ID (if applicable).

 

If the poll watcher thinks the registration card is a forgery, the ID is fake, or the signature is so obviously not the same that even an amateur can tell, he is supposed to wave the election judge over for the election judge to make a determination.

 

If the poll watcher is making a pain of himself by challenging every voter, different states handle it in different ways. I'm familiar with the system that the election judge ejects the poll watcher and the poll watcher would have to appeal to the Secretary of State in order to get readmitted (which basically doesn't happen because the Sec of State is much too busy on election day to listen to a jerk whine).

 

Now having said that, what Trump is referring to as "poll watchers" are people to stand around inside or outside the polling place and glare at people who are coming to vote in an effort to intimidate them (or maybe more than glare at people). Though keep in mind that both parties are out there trying to recruit legitimate poll watchers, even in this environment.

 

In most places I've heard of, people aren't allowed to loiter inside polling places to silently intimidate others just by being there. 

 

Standing outside is more dicey.

 

You can "campaign" outside a certain distance from the doorway into the polling place (many time something like 100 feet away but it varies from state to state). Standing there being silently glaring at people could be considered campaigning if the people are wearing campaign paraphernalia or are verbally campaigning in some form (asking people to take literature, screaming, etc.). Signage usually has the same distance limit as personal campaigning. If it's legal for a sign to be there, it's legal for a person to be there (and vice versa). The people who put up yard signs outside polling places are usually meticulous about measuring off the distance correctly and placing their signs as close as is legal.

 

Loitering without campaign paraphernalia or are verbally campaigning would probably not be allowed and might even be actively illegal in some places. (I've been thinking about writing up state laws on legal campaigning distance from the polling places, who to contact in each state if you see a problem and such, but it's a big task and it'll get buried on the pages if I try to do it piecemeal.) 

 

Wearing something incorrectly identifying you as being law enforcement would almost certainly not be legal (like wearing an ICE jacket outside a heavily Hispanic polling place).

 

Carrying something which could be construed as a weapon is not allowed, with the notable exception of a walking cane. People who appear obviously healthy but who carry a cane might get hassled by the police if they appear vaguely menacing but I wouldn't bet on it (everyone will have a trick knee from an old football injury). 

 

 

Loitering anywhere closer than the legal campaigning limit is probably not legal in your jurisdiction, particularly if the person is glaring at the voters. Enforcement of that again will probably be difficult because police will be busy with "real" problems. 

 

Reporting problems that you see should go first to the election judge who is inside. You'll probably have to interrupt one of the poll workers in order to find out who he is. He's responsible for coming outside and telling people to disperse or to move further back into the legal campaigning territory. 

 

If that doesn't work or he's too busy, you are supposed to directly contact your state's Secretary of State office (which runs the election in all the states that I know of). They'll probably have a special "Election Problems" phone number listed on their home page but I'd advise you to put that number on your cell phone contacts in advance. You don't know if their page will be working properly on election day.

 

It's probably not a bad idea to put the phone number of the county chairman of your favorite political party on your cell phone as well. He probably has back channel numbers to everyone who counts: county sheriff, city police who are on his side, sympathetic judges, and someone at the Secretary of State's office who will move your complaint to the front of the line rather than put it on the list to be addressed sometime over the next few hours. If your local party is particularly organized, it might have a tip line established for election complaints rather than having to contact the county chairman himself. 

 

Expect there to be problems and expect there to be Trump jerks following the president's orders to make voting an unpleasant experience. Or counter-protesters in areas which are likely to be contested.

 

If you want to document what they're doing with your cell phone, for G-d's sake be careful. If you're with someone, have them stand in front and film over their shoulder or around them so it isn't obvious you're filming a goon. 

 

 

Some distance-measuring apps if anyone is interested: https://techigem.com/measure-distance-apps/

I'm beyond terrible at measuring distances just by looking.

[Ternaugh]

Nevada's law is 100 feet from the entrance of the building or structure where the voting is taking place, with the exception of private residences or businesses that are within 100 feet. It expressly forbids anyone asking how someone voted or will vote, as well as trying to tell someone how to vote. Campaign materials are also not allowed, including buttons and apparel. I've seen someone in a previous election waiting line be asked to remove their hat*, or leave the immediate area. 

https://law.justia.com/codes/nevada/2010/title24/chapter293/nrs293-740.html

 

 

 

*Three guesses what the red hat said.