Old Man Posted October 23, 2020 Report Share Posted October 23, 2020 I tried to watch this but couldn’t, and to be honest I stuck my ballot in the box two weeks ago. I understand no one was hit with a folding chair, so that’s disappointing. I guess Trump managed to act almost like a human being, but it would take more than that to move the needle in the polls. A lot more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archer Posted October 23, 2020 Report Share Posted October 23, 2020 1 hour ago, ScottishFox said: Biden admitting his crime bill from 26 years ago was a mistake is particularly bad since he's had 2.5 decades to fix it and hasn't. Biden has repeatedly admitted the crime bill was a mistake for at least the last 15 years and in front of all kinds of audiences. And on the floor of the Senate, if I recall correctly. As for fixing it, megaplayboy addressed that well: 26 minutes ago, megaplayboy said: One of the elements of "didn't do anything" is the assumption that the person in question had the unilateral ability to do things. Generally speaking, with a two party system, 3 branches, 2 chambers, numerous veto points, they don't. It also tends to be a cheap "gotcha" move when said politician obviously doesn't have time to talk about all the various incremental measures they did enact/propose/support. Matt the Bruins 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Posted October 23, 2020 Report Share Posted October 23, 2020 2 hours ago, archer said: Debate, first impressions about 50 minutes in. Trump is on ADD medication. Unnaturally (for him) calm. Biden is deliberately pulling his punches and not going for openings Trump is leaving him. Biden also is not defending himself on the fake emails...and isn't pointing out that the FBI is investigating them as a Russian intelligence operation. Maybe pulling his punches is a strategy since he's ahead and doesn't want to appear too aggressive. I don't understand at all why he isn't trying to forcefully deny the emails. Whether they're completely true (yeah, right) or not, the thing to do politically is to deny they're true forcefully. edit: Trump really making an outreach to the Latino community by saying only those refugees and illegal immigrants who have low IQ's show up for their court dates. edit: Trump said, "I am the least racist person in this room". A statement which would include the audience, the moderator, and his own advisors who came to the debate with him. Then Trump said it again and specifically said that he was including the audience that he was less racist than them. Note some of his own family were supposed to be in the audience but I don't know if they actually showed up. Yeah, I am not convinced he is as ahead as the polls claim. Maybe ahead, but the country is too divided for him to pull off the quasi-Mondale beatdown some of the polls claim. Plus those polls are way too similar to 2016. And well, did the pollsters bother to learn from history? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archer Posted October 23, 2020 Report Share Posted October 23, 2020 21 minutes ago, Badger said: Yeah, I am not convinced he is as ahead as the polls claim. Maybe ahead, but the country is too divided for him to pull off the quasi-Mondale beatdown some of the polls claim. Plus those polls are way too similar to 2016. And well, did the pollsters bother to learn from history? I've seen deep dives into the specifics of several recent polls. In 2016, Trump showed shocking strength in the election with suburban white women and seniors which pre-election polling didn't show. He had been doing okay in polling with those groups but not all that great. And that surprising strength in those two groups turned out to be the margin of victory for him. In polling now, Trump's numbers with suburban white women has just massively tanked and the same with seniors. And he's solidly worse with suburban white men who he carried easily in 2016 polling (and election). Where Trump is doing better, and staying somewhat in the race, is that he's doing slightly better with blacks and Hispanics than in 2016. I don't think it's reasonable to expect suburban white women and seniors, who measurably hate Trump these days, to come out in surprisingly high numbers to vote for him. And I can't wrap my minds around the idea that massively high numbers of blacks and Hispanics are going to flock to the polls to rescue Trump either. To be ahead of Biden, Trump has got to be strong somewhere. And it's not like it's some secret shame to be a Trump voter these days like it was in 2016. People have really learned these past years to let their freak flag fly. This is an interesting series of weekly articles from a reporter who's opening up his notebook and writing down his impressions of what's going on with voters in the last four weeks before the election as he's following the campaigns around to various states. 4 Funny Feelings About 2020 https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/10/06/four-notes-election-reporter-notebook-426599 3 More Funny Feelings About 2020 https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/10/13/three-more-2020-feelings-429075 2 More Funny Feelings About 2020 https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/10/20/alberta-two-weeks-2020-election-feelings-430238 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Posted October 23, 2020 Report Share Posted October 23, 2020 1 hour ago, archer said: Biden has repeatedly admitted the crime bill was a mistake for at least the last 15 years and in front of all kinds of audiences. And on the floor of the Senate, if I recall correctly. As for fixing it, megaplayboy addressed that well: Biden: Wrote a bad crime bill once. Trump: Fumbled a pandemic killing a quarter million Americans. Hid tax returns showing he paid $750 in tax and broke campaign finance laws. Dodged the draft, then called veterans “stupid” and “losers”, and stood by while Putin put a price on American soldiers’ heads. Signed a tax giveaway for the rich that sent the deficit sailing over $1T. Then used the pandemic to give away more trillions to corporations while regular Americans struggle to pay rent and medical bills. (Now the deficit is over $3T.) Ordered immigrant children to be separated from their parents at the border and housed in cages. Refused to denounce the Proud Boys or QAnon. Inflamed the worst civil unrest and riots in fifty years. Still want to compare records? You almost can’t blame the guy for running against Hunter Biden. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattern Ghost Posted October 23, 2020 Report Share Posted October 23, 2020 You forgot the creepy hair sniffing for Biden. * I'm pretty sure you missed a metric butt-ton for Trump. *Not sure if best emoji, but it's the only one I saw with hair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archer Posted October 23, 2020 Report Share Posted October 23, 2020 7 minutes ago, Pattern Ghost said: You forgot the creepy hair sniffing for Biden. * Hair sniffing isn't creepy. At least none of the women who've been asleep when I've done it have complained.... Lawnmower Boy and Old Man 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Posted October 23, 2020 Report Share Posted October 23, 2020 26 minutes ago, Pattern Ghost said: You forgot the creepy hair sniffing for Biden. * I’ll see your creepy hair sniffing and raise you a long history of hanging out with Jeffrey Epstein and lots of girls who were under the age of consent. 23 minutes ago, archer said: Hair sniffing isn't creepy. At least none of the women who've been asleep when I've done it have complained.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrickstaPriest Posted October 23, 2020 Report Share Posted October 23, 2020 I still haven't forgotten the Twitter war with North Korea that nearly became a literal one. 😕 We could be here all day, and a quarter or more of what I'd list would have to do with twitter this or rally that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottishFox Posted October 23, 2020 Report Share Posted October 23, 2020 Seriously, though. The new format was GREAT! I recommend this setup for all debates going forward. It was so much better than all of the previous ones with candidates (especially Trump) yelling over one another. And the moderator was amazeballs. Matt the Bruins and TrickstaPriest 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archer Posted October 23, 2020 Report Share Posted October 23, 2020 13 minutes ago, ScottishFox said: Seriously, though. The new format was GREAT! I recommend this setup for all debates going forward. It was so much better than all of the previous ones with candidates (especially Trump) yelling over one another. And the moderator was amazeballs. Just knowing the mute button was there did seem to do a lot to keep Trump under control. If he'd needed to be muted, that would have been the story of the debate and that wouldn't have moved his candidacy forward. But I wasn't kidding earlier about Trump being on ADHD medication. He was visibly more subdued than normal even when he got agitated. It reminded me very strongly about the difference between elementary kids who have ADHD on days when the parent remembers giving them their medicine vs days when they forgot to give the kid their medicine. I don't know if they actually gave Trump something like Adderall or if they just gave him a massive dose of caffeine (which tends to calm down and focus people who have ADHD). But Trump behaved noticeably different than at rallies, interviews, the previous debate.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrickstaPriest Posted October 23, 2020 Report Share Posted October 23, 2020 1 minute ago, archer said: But I wasn't kidding earlier about Trump being on ADHD medication. He was visibly more subdued than normal even when he got agitated. It reminded me very strongly about the difference between elementary kids who have ADHD on days when the parent remembers giving them their medicine vs days when they forgot to give the kid their medicine. I've been assuming he's been ADD/ADHD for a long time. He's very clearly frustrated an incredible amount of his staff with his inability to focus. It also explains his rambling diatribes, heavy twitter and tv usage, etc... He's unable to prepare, practice, do anything that takes any amount of concentration or time. He completely adlibs everything and tries to wing everything he runs into. He has ADHD and he's absolutely refused to do anything about it, behaviorally or otherwise. So maybe it's good that they put him on that. People talked about cognitive decline, but I pretty much pegged it at ADHD for a good long while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archer Posted October 23, 2020 Report Share Posted October 23, 2020 1 minute ago, TrickstaPriest said: I've been assuming he's been ADD/ADHD for a long time. He's very clearly frustrated an incredible amount of his staff with his inability to focus. It also explains his rambling diatribes, heavy twitter and tv usage, etc... He's unable to prepare, practice, do anything that takes any amount of concentration or time. He completely adlibs everything and tries to wing everything he runs into. He has ADHD and he's absolutely refused to do anything about it, behaviorally or otherwise. So maybe it's good that they put him on that. People talked about cognitive decline, but I pretty much pegged it at ADHD for a good long while. I figured it was both since he's shown signs of both. Since he's consistently insisted nothing is wrong with him, if they did manage to get some medicine down him, I'd guess either it's a one-time thing or they slipped it into his food or drink without him knowing. I guess we'll see in a few hours. A dose of Adderall lasts from six hours to 24 hours depending on a number of factors. If he's the same in a couple of days as he was tonight, maybe they finally got him on meds. If he returns to "normal", probably not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted October 23, 2020 Report Share Posted October 23, 2020 Fact check: The final 2020 presidential election debate A fairly thorough and balanced analysis of the veracity of the claims by the two candidates during the final debate. Although the CNN story's opening does spin the result rather in favor of Biden, both candidates are called on falsehoods. The story also provides context for remarks from both of them when the facts didn't exactly align with either truth or falsehood. archer 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archer Posted October 23, 2020 Report Share Posted October 23, 2020 55 minutes ago, Lord Liaden said: Fact check: The final 2020 presidential election debate A fairly thorough and balanced analysis of the veracity of the claims by the two candidates during the final debate. Although the CNN story's opening does spin the result rather in favor of Biden, both candidates are called on falsehoods. The story also provides context for remarks from both of them when the facts didn't exactly align with either truth or falsehood. Nice link. ==== Biden: Trump wants to end payroll tax that funds Social Security Facts First: This is not quite true. Trump signed an executive measure in August giving employers the ability to defer Social Security's payroll taxes until the end of the year.... ==== This is one of the common problem with fact-checking articles: they focus on one thing rather than looking at everything related to the topic. Trump and administration officials have repeatedly spoken in favor of permanently eliminating the part of the payroll tax which is the only funding for the Social Security disability program...and replacing it with nothing at all. And that's a totally separate issue than what the fact checker chose to focus upon. Trump hasn't signed an executive order for it. But he's repeatedly talked about how he wants to eliminate that tax as part of his plan to revitalize the economy. I think I've complained about it here sometime in the past few months and linked to an article talking about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megaplayboy Posted October 23, 2020 Report Share Posted October 23, 2020 3 hours ago, TrickstaPriest said: I've been assuming he's been ADD/ADHD for a long time. He's very clearly frustrated an incredible amount of his staff with his inability to focus. It also explains his rambling diatribes, heavy twitter and tv usage, etc... He's unable to prepare, practice, do anything that takes any amount of concentration or time. He completely adlibs everything and tries to wing everything he runs into. He has ADHD and he's absolutely refused to do anything about it, behaviorally or otherwise. So maybe it's good that they put him on that. People talked about cognitive decline, but I pretty much pegged it at ADHD for a good long while. You can have ADHD and still focus. Starlord 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starlord Posted October 23, 2020 Report Share Posted October 23, 2020 51 minutes ago, megaplayboy said: You can have ADHD and still focus. I'm not a doctor, but in my experience ADHD is often wildly misdiagnosed and the lack of focus may sometimes come into play when you are forced to concentrate on tasks that are mundane or uninteresting to you personally. Trump is a 70+ year old billionaire(??) who has probably spent the last 30 years in short 15-30 minute meetings where his lawyers and underlings were the ones who actually hunkered down and ironed out the details while he just barked an order then went golfing. It's possible he's just a thoroughly undisciplined person and/or this is just what it looks like when you have one of the least qualified leaders in recorded history. Lawnmower Boy and TrickstaPriest 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archer Posted October 23, 2020 Report Share Posted October 23, 2020 A federal judge on Thursday dismissed a lawsuit from President Trump’s re-election campaign to block New Jersey Gov. Phil Murphy’s (D) plan to send mail-in ballots to all registered voters https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/522404-judge-throws-out-trump-campaign-lawsuit-against-new-jersey-mail-in I'd expect the administration to appeal. But considering the state is going to have to get the ballots in the mail in order to have any chance of getting them back before election day, I don't know that another court would have time to consider the case before the ballots hit the mail. After they're in the mail, the lawsuit is moot. And is it just me or are the Republicans going through extraordinary efforts nationwide in the courts and legislatures to prevent people from voting in this election? /s Matt the Bruins 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pariah Posted October 23, 2020 Report Share Posted October 23, 2020 To be racist means, at least in part, that you value some people less than others based on the color of their skin or their nation or continent of origin. That part is fairly straightforward. But what if you don't value anyone at all? What if you see those around you not as people, but as either followers to be exploited or enemies to be attacked, regardless of skin color either way? That would make you a miserable individual, sure. But I don't think we could really call you a racist. By this definition, I suppose the President's claim to be "the least racist person in this room" might actually be true. You can't be a racist if you despise everyone equally. Tom Cowan and Matt the Bruins 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starlord Posted October 23, 2020 Report Share Posted October 23, 2020 Basically. Narcissistic personality disorder leads to a tendency to view everyone around you as objects to be used when necessary. Tom Cowan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archer Posted October 23, 2020 Report Share Posted October 23, 2020 57 minutes ago, Pariah said: To be racist means, at least in part, that you value some people less than others based on the color of their skin or their nation or continent of origin. That part is fairly straightforward. But what if you don't value anyone at all? What if you see those around you not as people, but as either followers to be exploited or enemies to be attacked, regardless of skin color either way? That would make you a miserable individual, sure. But I don't think we could really call you a racist. By this definition, I suppose the President's claim to be "the least racist person in this room" might actually be true. You can't be a racist if you despise everyone equally. He values everyone less because they aren't genetically exactly Donald Trump. That's racist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archer Posted October 23, 2020 Report Share Posted October 23, 2020 17 minutes ago, archer said: He values everyone less because they aren't genetically exactly Donald Trump. That's racist. I might be more inclined to cut him a break on his racism but there's media reports in 2016 of how black employees in his casinos had to go hide in a back room when he came around because he didn't like to see them working there. And there's multiple reports dating back decades about...insensitive...things he's said about Jewish people. I can share links if anyone is that interested in verifying it. TrickstaPriest 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archer Posted October 23, 2020 Report Share Posted October 23, 2020 CNN Poll: Biden won debate 53%-39% Viewers said that Biden's criticisms of Trump were largely fair (73% said they were fair, 26% unfair), and they split over whether Trump's attacks on Biden were fair (50% said yes, 49% no). https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/22/politics/cnn-poll-final-presidential-debate/index.html performance raised concerns about how he would handle the presidency Trump's (55%) Biden's (41%). trusted to handle the coronavirus 57% Biden to 41% Trump racial inequality in the US 62% Biden to 35% Trump better plan for solving the country's problems 54% Biden to 42% Trump directly answering the moderator's questions 62% Biden, 31% said Trump on the economy 56% Trump, 44% Biden Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starlord Posted October 23, 2020 Report Share Posted October 23, 2020 The wife and I voted yesterday. This is the third time I've early voted (if you live in an early vote state, I can't for the life of me figure out why anyone would wait to vote on election day) at this exact location and the previous times I was in and out in 5 minutes with no wait. This time we waited in line 30 minutes which I see as a sign that folks don't want to be stuck in even longer lines on election day surrounded by unknown covid carriers and the overall importance of this particular election. Old Man, Ternaugh and Matt the Bruins 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archer Posted October 23, 2020 Report Share Posted October 23, 2020 Mitch McConnell's Hand Is (dramatically) Discolored But He Swears Nothing Is Wrong https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/amberjamieson/mitch-mcconnell-hands-health Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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