Political Discussion Thread (With Rules)

[TrickstaPriest]

5 hours ago, archer said:

I might be more inclined to cut him a break on his racism but there's media reports in 2016 of how black employees in his casinos had to go hide in a back room when he came around because he didn't like to see them working there.

 

And there's multiple reports dating back decades about...insensitive...things he's said about Jewish people.

 

 

I know people who hate everyone, but who seem to focus specifically on women, and/or black people, when they choose to gripe about people.  One is a self described woman hater, another a self described racist.  The latter looks at the KKK with contempt, but still quite racist in general.

 

So it's anecdotal, but I know people who definitely dislike human beings but treat the human beings they specifically dislike even more poorly.  I'd say mistreating people in general makes it easier to exhibit those bad qualities even more so, because there's no filter between your emotions towards such people and your actions.

 

Normally, it takes a lot of dislike or hate to overcome that filter.  But when you don't give a damn about other people to begin with (except your best friends)...

[unclevlad]

1 hour ago, archer said:

Mitch McConnell's Hand Is (dramatically) Discolored But He Swears Nothing Is Wrong

 

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/amberjamieson/mitch-mcconnell-hands-health

 

Wow.

 

I'd downplay 1 pic;  could always be faked, right?  But there are just too many, from different sources, for me to think that's credible.

 

So on the presumption it is real?  That's not pretty, and it's gone from literally nothing (at least visually) to extensive involvement of most of his right hand.  

[wcw43921]

Well, I'm sure McConnell's seen a doctor for whatever condition it is, and while the news may affect his prospects for re-election, the condition shouldn't affect his abilities to perform in the Senate.  Not that I'm any fan of the man, but Tammy Duckworth is missing both her legs, and she represents Illinois just fine.  Unless this turns out to be something really serious, I'm sure McConnell can do the same for Kentucky as he's always done.

[ScottishFox]

Anyone think the Tony Bobulinski testimony will add enough veracity to the laptop and email scandals to make a difference? 

(https://www.newsweek.com/tony-bobulinski-biden-whistleblower-sit-interview-fbi-over-hunter-biden-business-dealings-1541751)

 

I re-watched part of the debate when Joe was talking about transitioning away from fossil fuels and there was an odd moment with the moderator:

• Joe Biden:  By the way I would transition away from the oil industry, yes.
• Trump:  That's a big statement!
• Joe Biden: It is a big statement.  Because I would stop...
• Kristen Welker:  Why would you do that?

That's such an odd question.  Joe goes on to explain it, but obviously the reasons to get off oil are pollution and it being a non-renewable resource.

 

[archer]

31 minutes ago, unclevlad said:

 

Wow.

 

I'd downplay 1 pic;  could always be faked, right?  But there are just too many, from different sources, for me to think that's credible.

 

So on the presumption it is real?  That's not pretty, and it's gone from literally nothing (at least visually) to extensive involvement of most of his right hand.  

 

I've badly bruised my arm so that it was that color in places on the front. But the other parts on the front of my arm were yellowish or black. It wasn't uniformly purple like his appears to be.

 

And it still didn't discolor my arm on the sides or back. 

 

That looks to me more like constricted blood flow due to blood clots. (Blood clots, if that's what it is, can kill you instantly because they can break loose at any moment and go into the heart or brain causing a heart attack or stroke. Doctors usually recommend complete bed rest, not that McConnel could do that while running the Senate at this critical juncture.)

 

Could anyone see if it was affecting more than one hand?

[unclevlad]

8 minutes ago, wcw43921 said:

Well, I'm sure McConnell's seen a doctor for whatever condition it is, and while the news may affect his prospects for re-election, the condition shouldn't affect his abilities to perform in the Senate.  Not that I'm any fan of the man, but Tammy Duckworth is missing both her legs, and she represents Illinois just fine.  Unless this turns out to be something really serious, I'm sure McConnell can do the same for Kentucky as he's always done.

 

If that's all true, then why is he constantly saying nothing is wrong, which is clearly BS?  It could be pretty darn straightforward hand surgery that he's been told he can delay until after the election...altho the pace at which it seems to have advanced is disturbing, but we're not doctors and we haven't actually examined him.  So it's possible...but if that's the case then not saying anything is worse, isn't it?

 

archer:  there's MANY other articles.  I saw only one shot where he had a bandage on the back of his left hand.  Some other shots MIGHT indicate that kind of discoloration around his upper lip, but those are much less clear.

7 minutes ago, ScottishFox said:

Anyone think the Tony Bobulinski testimony will add enough veracity to the laptop and email scandals to make a difference? 

(https://www.newsweek.com/tony-bobulinski-biden-whistleblower-sit-interview-fbi-over-hunter-biden-business-dealings-1541751)

 

 

No.  Besides, even if true, in the scales of malfeasance, this might put Biden at 5 pounds...but Trump's at 5 tons.

[archer]

50 minutes ago, ScottishFox said:

Anyone think the Tony Bobulinski testimony will add enough veracity to the laptop and email scandals to make a difference? 

(https://www.newsweek.com/tony-bobulinski-biden-whistleblower-sit-interview-fbi-over-hunter-biden-business-dealings-1541751)

 

 

If he had made the statement then talked to the FBI without contacting (or being contacted by) the Trump campaign first, he would have a hell of a lot more credibility.

 

As it is, he looks like part of a desperate last minute gambit by the Trump campaign to discredit the Bidens.

.

.

.

 

People might remember that Steve Bannon was recently arrested while on the yacht of a Chinese billionaire, Guo Wengui (who also goes by the names Miles Guo and Miles Kwok).

 

What's been less reported in US media is that Guo Wengui has been shopping the story that he had hard drives with incriminating Biden dirt since September and is also close buddies with Rudy Giuliani.

 

https://www.thedailybeast.com/chinese-billionaires-network-hyped-hunter-biden-dirt-weeks-before-rudy?ref=scroll

 

And that Guo Wengui is using his https://www.gnews.org "news organization" to push COVID conspiracy theories like Dr. Fauci is a willing pawn of the communist Chinese government and that it's a proven fact that COVID-19 is a Chinese bioweapon.

 

Guo Wengui has fantasies about setting up his own Chinese government-in-exile, his own cryptocurrency, and a fashion line to sell in the US.

 

In short, I have a difficult time taking seriously anyone at this point who tries to tell me that they're coming forward with hard drives or emails about the Bidens. That corner of reality, or unreality, has been thoroughly compromised by very, very rich conspiracy kooks who are actively using their money to push their conspiracy theories.

[Lectryk]

37 minutes ago, ScottishFox said:

Anyone think the Tony Bobulinski testimony will add enough veracity to the laptop and email scandals to make a difference? 

(https://www.newsweek.com/tony-bobulinski-biden-whistleblower-sit-interview-fbi-over-hunter-biden-business-dealings-1541751)

 

 

 

I don't think it will have a measurable impact.  As has been noted several times, the fight is over undecideds, and I think there aren't enough of those in any one state to sway the vote of that state.

 

Quote ' "[The] American people can judge for themselves," he said on Thursday. "I have no wish to bury anyone. I've never been political. The few contributions I've made have been the Democrats. But what I am is a patriot, and a veteran, to protect my family name, and my business reputation. I need to ensure that the true facts are out there."

 

Also - his timing is incredibly bad for his credibility.  Why did the apolitical, patriotic veteran who is interested only protecting his name and reputation get involved in shady dealings that he knew were wrong in the first place?  Then, why wait until the story blew in a tabloid before coming forward?  

 

[Starlord]

2 hours ago, archer said:

Mitch McConnell's Hand Is (dramatically) Discolored But He Swears Nothing Is Wrong

 

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/amberjamieson/mitch-mcconnell-hands-health

 

I admire his bravery.  Destroying a horcrux is very dangerous.

[Lord Liaden]

18 minutes ago, eyocum said:

 

Also - his timing is incredibly bad for his credibility.  Why did the apolitical, patriotic veteran who is interested only protecting his name and reputation get involved in shady dealings that he knew were wrong in the first place?  Then, why wait until the story blew in a tabloid before coming forward?  

 

 

The timing is close enough to the election date to receive publicity, but too close to be investigated and confirmed before the election. The whole laptop story, in addition to its other improbabilities and inconsistencies, falls within that same window. It's not impossible there could be something to it, but it stinks of classic political dirty tricks.

[archer]

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/522534-biden-campaign-mocks-trump-with-covid-plan-domain-after-debate

 

https://trumpcovidplan.com/

[ScottishFox]

4 minutes ago, Lord Liaden said:

It's not impossible there could be something to it, but it stinks of classic political dirty tricks.

 

This is pretty much where I went with it.  The timing is incredibly suspect.  But now there have been multiple intelligence agencies confirming it's not part of a misinformation campaign.

Then Biden's business partner on some of the emails is testifying to the FBI about it.

 

No idea if it's legit at all, but it feels like its moving in that direction.

 

I think it's a bit of a miss campaign wise.  Top voter issues are more likely the economy and the handling of the Coronavirus pandemic.

[Ragitsu]

I for one am glad that Thanksgiving will be different or perhaps even cancelled this year; the last thing I want is a political conversation with some of the geniuses in my extended family.

[Lord Liaden]

43 minutes ago, ScottishFox said:

 

This is pretty much where I went with it.  The timing is incredibly suspect.  But now there have been multiple intelligence agencies confirming it's not part of a misinformation campaign.

 

 

If you have sources for that, I'd like to see them. I've heard or read nothing from intelligence agencies or any other reputable source that "confirms" they're not part of a misinformation campaign. What I have read is a letter signed by dozens of former American government intelligence and security officials, including from the current administration, who assert this development has all the earmarks of a Russian disinformation campaign.

 

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2020/10/20/nation/dozens-former-intelligence-officials-sign-letter-warning-hunter-biden-story-could-be-russian-disinformation/

 

https://www.politico.com/f/?id=00000175-4393-d7aa-af77-579f9b330000

 

In fairness it should be noted that this is based on their experience, not any hard evidence.

 

EDIT: John Ratcliffe, current Director of National Intelligence, did deny in an interview with Fox Business that Russia was behind the current story, but acknowledged that he knew "little" about the case, and that the American intelligence community has "not been involved" in the matter.

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2020/10/19/russian-disinformation-not-behind-biden-emails-dni-ratcliffe-says/3712484001/

 

 

[Old Man]

1 hour ago, Lord Liaden said:

 

The timing is close enough to the election date to receive publicity, but too close to be investigated and confirmed before the election. The whole laptop story, in addition to its other improbabilities and inconsistencies, falls within that same window. It's not impossible there could be something to it, but it stinks of classic political dirty tricks.

 

I think we've already wasted enough time on the story about how Hunter Biden, who lives in California, dropped off a laptop at a Delaware repair shop whose owner is blind, then entirely forgot about it and all the sensitive email on it, whereupon the blind shop owner gave it to, of all people, Rudy Giuliani?  The New York Post reporter who was forced to write this one up literally refused to put his name on the story because it was so obvious. 

 

This also seems like a good time to remind people that Hunter Biden is not currently running for office.

[archer]

Pennsylvania Supreme Court unanimously ruled that mail ballots cannot be discarded based on a perceived mismatch between signatures appearing on a voter's application and their actual ballot.

 

The decision came in response to a request by Pennsylvania’s Democratic Secretary of State Kathy Boockvar for clarity on the Keystone State’s mail ballot rule.

 

https://thehill.com/regulation/522496-pennsylvanias-top-court-deals-blow-to-gop-by-tossing-signature-matching-rule

 

As much as I deplore the voter suppression efforts of the Republicans, not being allowed to discard a ballot due to a very obvious signature mismatch is an open invitation to fraud. Matching the signature is really the only way for an election board to verify it was the actual voter who filled out that ballot and not someone else.

 

What this ruling says is that even if they get 10,000 or 100,000 ballots all signed with the same handwriting with the same kind of pen, none of the ballots can be tossed.

 

At least make the people who might try to defraud the system put some work into ATTEMPTING to alter their handwriting.

[megaplayboy]

7 minutes ago, archer said:

Pennsylvania Supreme Court unanimously ruled that mail ballots cannot be discarded based on a perceived mismatch between signatures appearing on a voter's application and their actual ballot.

 

The decision came in response to a request by Pennsylvania’s Democratic Secretary of State Kathy Boockvar for clarity on the Keystone State’s mail ballot rule.

 

https://thehill.com/regulation/522496-pennsylvanias-top-court-deals-blow-to-gop-by-tossing-signature-matching-rule

 

As much as I deplore the voter suppression efforts of the Republicans, not being allowed to discard a ballot due to a very obvious signature mismatch is an open invitation to fraud. Matching the signature is really the only way for an election board to verify it was the actual voter who filled out that ballot and not someone else.

 

What this ruling says is that even if they get 10,000 or 100,000 ballots all signed with the same handwriting with the same kind of pen, none of the ballots can be tossed.

 

At least make the people who might try to defraud the system put some work into ATTEMPTING to alter their handwriting.

There's a great deal of variance in people's handwriting, and the people processing these ballots aren't necessarily handwriting experts.  Plenty of opportunity for mischief going the other way to just let them toss the ballots.  If need be, put them in a pile and count them provisionally until you can evaluate them further.

[BoloOfEarth]

Both of my daughters practiced their signatures to make sure they matched the signature on their drivers licenses before signing their ballots, just to make sure they didn't get rejected for mismatched signature.  (My youngest joked that she was "forging" her own signature, since her current signature is quite different from the one she had when she got her license.) 

 

Meanwhile, my signature is so established in my muscle memory that the only way it could have matched better is if I traced it straight off my driver's license.

[Hermit]

I had to renew my license this summer. The DMV turned out to be SWAMPED... and while required to wear a mask or cover their mouths with their shirts once 'really' inside, a lot of them ignored that fully while swarmed in the hall on the way in. And, while I have my mask, I had to take it off for the picture for the new license. AND.. sign four times...

sign here

here

here..

and I'm just wanting OUT thanks but guess which signature comes up next?

the one that will be ON the darn thing.

by then my fingers were a bit tired. I was rushed..and it looked different from the first three.

I'm honestly hoping they don't use that as an excuse to give me a 'doesn't match' speech. My hand writing has always been bad, and thanks to a world where I type rather than write physically, it's definitely not gotten better.

 

 

[IndianaJoe3]

1 hour ago, BoloOfEarth said:

Meanwhile, my signature is so established in my muscle memory that the only way it could have matched better is if I traced it straight off my driver's license.

 

I'm the exact opposite. I could sign my name 5 times, and at least 2 wouldn't match. I keep joking that if my handwriting gets any worse I'll have to go to medical school.

[Matt the Bruins]

I voted Wednesday, and waited in line an hour to do it. Those are the sorts of waits I'd normally expect on election day, not in the middle of the afternoon on the third day of early voting. Whatever else is true of this election, I think it has more voters invested and willing to hit the polls than I've seen in my adult life. Which I regard as a good thing, even if the results break against my wishes.

[Ternaugh]

Trump and the Republican Party are starting to get scared about the number of mail-in ballots being processed in Clark County, NV (Las Vegas and surrounding cities), and attempted to sue to stop mail-in ballot counting. So far, the judge has denied a temporary injunction, though another hearing is scheduled for Wednesday. According to the article, the initial signature comparison is done by computer, with about 30% of the signatures being accepted in that pass, and 70% then moving on to a manual verification process. The complaint says that the computer is set to be too lenient, and they would like all mail-in ballots processed manually, with poll watchers closely observing, ready to challenge ballots.

 

I had dropped my ballot off on Saturday at one of the polling places, and I was able to check via the election department website that my ballot has been officially returned on that date, with no issues listed (that is, it's been accepted). I'm guessing that my ballot's already been counted. Folks who do have issues are able to call into a call center so that they can begin the process of fixing the ballot. The lawsuit is also attempting to stop the call center from doing this.

 

According to Jon Ralston's blog, "If you want to know why the GOP sued in Clark over mail ballots: The Dems lead 108,000 to 38,000." Those numbers are based on registered party affiliation, as the actual counts are not available until election night after the polls close. 

 

Article here: https://thenevadaindependent.com/article/trump-campaign-nevada-republicans-sue-to-stop-clark-county-mail-vote-counting-until-proper-procedures-in-place

Jon Ralston's blog here: https://thenevadaindependent.com/article/the-early-voting-blog-3

[Matt the Bruins]

Just out of curiosity, does anyone know what the largest % margin of victory in a Presidential election was?

[archer]

30 minutes ago, Matt the Bruins said:

Just out of curiosity, does anyone know what the largest % margin of victory in a Presidential election was?

 

https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/largest-landslide-victories-in-us-presidential-election-history.html

 

10. Herbert Hoover defeats Al Smith, 1928 (17.41% margin)

9. Franklin Roosevelt defeats Herbert Hoover, 1932 (17.76% margin)

8. Andrew Jackson defeats Henry Clay, 1832 (17.81% margin)

7. Ronald Reagan defeats Walter Mondale, 1984 (18.21% margin)

6. Theodore Roosevelt defeats Alton Parker, 1904 (18.83% margin)

5. Lyndon Johnson defeats Barry Goldwater, 1964 (22.58% margin)

4. Richard Nixon defeats George McGovern, 1972 (23.15% margin)

3. Franklin Roosevelt defeats Alf Landon, 1936 (24.26% margin)

2. Calvin Coolidge defeats John Davis, 1924 (25.22% margin)

1. Warren Harding defeats James Cox, 1920 (26.17% margin)

 

Wow, lived through three of those. Let's make it four.

[ScottishFox]

8 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

 

If you have sources for that, I'd like to see them. I've heard or read nothing from intelligence agencies or any other reputable source that "confirms" they're not part of a misinformation campaign. What I have read is a letter signed by dozens of former American government intelligence and security officials, including from the current administration, who assert this development has all the earmarks of a Russian disinformation campaign.

 

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2020/10/20/nation/dozens-former-intelligence-officials-sign-letter-warning-hunter-biden-story-could-be-russian-disinformation/

 

https://www.politico.com/f/?id=00000175-4393-d7aa-af77-579f9b330000

 

In fairness it should be noted that this is based on their experience, not any hard evidence.

 

EDIT: John Ratcliffe, current Director of National Intelligence, did deny in an interview with Fox Business that Russia was behind the current story, but acknowledged that he knew "little" about the case, and that the American intelligence community has "not been involved" in the matter.

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2020/10/19/russian-disinformation-not-behind-biden-emails-dni-ratcliffe-says/3712484001/

 

 

 

There was this article below and some others that basically say the same thing.  Then Tony Bobulinski's little press stunt and his stated intention to be interviewed by the FBI very soon.

 

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/fbi-and-doj-do-not-believe-hunter-biden-laptop-part-of-russian-disinformation-campaign

 

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/fbi-interview-request-hunter-biden-ex-associate-tony-bobulinski-senate-committee

 

 

1 hour ago, archer said:

 

https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/largest-landslide-victories-in-us-presidential-election-history.html

 

10. Herbert Hoover defeats Al Smith, 1928 (17.41% margin)

9. Franklin Roosevelt defeats Herbert Hoover, 1932 (17.76% margin)

8. Andrew Jackson defeats Henry Clay, 1832 (17.81% margin)

7. Ronald Reagan defeats Walter Mondale, 1984 (18.21% margin)

6. Theodore Roosevelt defeats Alton Parker, 1904 (18.83% margin)

5. Lyndon Johnson defeats Barry Goldwater, 1964 (22.58% margin)

4. Richard Nixon defeats George McGovern, 1972 (23.15% margin)

3. Franklin Roosevelt defeats Alf Landon, 1936 (24.26% margin)

2. Calvin Coolidge defeats John Davis, 1924 (25.22% margin)

1. Warren Harding defeats James Cox, 1920 (26.17% margin)

 

Wow, lived through three of those. Let's make it four.

 

Some of the electoral map landslides have been whoppers.