Political Discussion Thread (With Rules)

[archer 1,719]

On 11/4/2020 at 1:41 PM, Dr. MID-Nite said:

 

Also in MI.. not surprised at the divide. The suburban/rural areas are out of touch with the realities of the rest of the country.

 

On 11/4/2020 at 2:42 PM, Greywind said:

 

So the urban parts of the country are the only parts that matter?

 

I don't think either side of that divide have a full grasp of the concerns of the other. I moved to cities after graduating college and married a beautiful lady who deliberately chose to teach in inner city schools when she could have easily chosen to have taught in more suburban schools instead. (She grew up in very rural Kansas but learned to love the kids in the inner city after landing a job teaching there after her own graduation.)

 

That's one of the strengths of the Electoral College system, in my opinion. A president has to show strength in many different parts of the country rather than just in population centers.

 

Winning over voters in Washington state, Oregon, and Colorado is different than winning over voters in NYC, Detroit, or Miami.

 

[Greywind 2,579]

10 minutes ago, Hermit said:

 

While he wasn't flattering to them, that's not what Dr. Mid-nite said. he said they were out of touch with the realities of the rest of the country.

 

 

There's more rural areas than there are urban areas. So maybe it is the urban areas that are out of touch with the realities of the rest of the country.

[Hermit 6,174]

2 minutes ago, Greywind said:

 

There's more rural areas than there are urban areas. So maybe it is the urban areas that are out of touch with the realities of the rest of the country.

 

Argue that with Dr. Mid-Nite, I was just pointing out he hadn't said what you said he did. Debate is hard enough without folks putting words in others mouths.

 

Me? I think Archer is closer to the mark (no archery pun intended). It does seem sometimes the Rural/Urban divide do not get each other at all. I know city dwellers who think Brown Cows are where you get chocolate milk from, and know some in rural areas that believe the entire city of Portland Ore was on fire during the protests there. 

 

We've got a real communication problem in our country.

 

 

[Dr. MID-Nite 316]

52 minutes ago, Greywind said:

 

So the urban parts of the country are the only parts that matter?

 

With all due respect, I came nowhere near to saying that. I was stating that that rural and suburban communities(of which I happen to be part) tend to see the problems and issues in America as something that happens to other people...often with the caveats such as "well they shouldn't live in such a slum" or "well if they only worked harder..they'd be fine" and other such general statements that ignore American realities. Issues are something that happen to other people and everything would be fine if they "just stopped causing trouble". They don't see it...so it doesn't exist. At the same time....because they're isolated both in reality and thought from America's urban areas...they also believe in issues they're told exist because they have no context to believe otherwise. Again....out of touch. And you might try asking for clarification before quoting me out of context next time. Thanks.

22 minutes ago, Greywind said:

 

There's more rural areas than there are urban areas. So maybe it is the urban areas that are out of touch with the realities of the rest of the country.

 

And more people live in urban areas than live in rural areas. If you're going to use that logic, I'll simply say people matter more than land. Again, I live in a semi rural area....and I've lived in urban and suburban areas in the past. I have firsthand experience.

[archer 1,719]

NBC projects Biden as winner in Michigan.

 

That's in addition to Wisconsin earlier in the day.

[Greywind 2,579]

https://www.judicialwatch.org/in-the-news/1-8-mill-ghost-voters

[Greywind 2,579]

26 minutes ago, Hermit said:

 

Argue that with Dr. Mid-Nite, I was just pointing out he hadn't said what you said he did. Debate is hard enough without folks putting words in others mouths.

 

Me? I think Archer is closer to the mark (no archery pun intended). It does seem sometimes the Rural/Urban divide do not get each other at all. I know city dwellers who think Brown Cows are where you get chocolate milk from, and know some in rural areas that believe the entire city of Portland Ore was on fire during the protests there. 

 

We've got a real communication problem in our country.

 

 

 

And some city dwellers think meat comes from grocery stores where no animals are harmed.

[Hermit 6,174]

4 minutes ago, Greywind said:

 

And some city dwellers think meat comes from grocery stores where no animals are harmed.

True

 

[Starlord 4,822]

So I guess we're waiting to see if this is the end of Avengers Infinity War or Avengers Endgame - Jimmy Kimmel

[Lectryk 36]

51 minutes ago, Greywind said:

https://www.judicialwatch.org/in-the-news/1-8-mill-ghost-voters

 

Warnings from this site should come with a social media veracity warning - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judicial_Watch 

Activities and controversies[edit]

Judicial Watch’s main targets have been Democrats, particularly Bill and Hillary Clinton and the Obama administration.^[17]

 

 

 

[archer 1,719]

1 hour ago, Greywind said:

https://www.judicialwatch.org/in-the-news/1-8-mill-ghost-voters

 

Unfortunately, outdated voter registration rolls are just a part of elections these days. Republicans want to take an axe to voter rolls in order to remove legit voters who don't vote every election in addition to removing people who should be removed (such as people who have died or moved from that address). Democrats, on the other hand, resist any efforts to update registration rolls to remove people who really shouldn't be there because they know Republicans are looking for excuses to remove real voters.

 

But as the article points out, that isn't evidence that anyone at all voted illegally. It just means that there would have been more opportunities for people to have attempted to cast illegal votes than would have existed otherwise. (And the difference in the number of opportunities is trivial.)

 

That is not, at all, like that one precinct in Philadelphia in the 2004 election which had more people cast votes there than were registered (which implied that no registered voter got sick, died, was called out of town, or forgot to vote plus a lot of unregistered citizens did same day registration...else something really unusual happened in that one relatively small place). I don't remember offhand exactly what the voting rate in similar precincts in the same city was but I think it was less than 50%. So someone could point to that place and legitimately say "I think something happened there because the voting rate was higher than 100% and was wildly different than other precincts in the same area".

 

But pointing to registration rolls which haven't been updated and trying to claim, "There was definitely fraud going on"...would be a silly claim if someone were to make it (counting down from three to when the president tweets out about it 3...2...1....)

[archer 1,719]

Centerists House Democrats are talking about ousting Pelosi from the Speakership. They blame her for not going after Trump earlier on impeachment charges and for not attacking him more strenuously during the election. (She did seem to drop out of sight a lot more than I would have expected. And it's not unusual for the membership to blame the leader for losses or for smaller than expected gains.)

 

And they think that a fresh face might be better able to negotiate with Republicans in the House and Senate to shepherd through President Biden's legislation.

 

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/524503-centrist-democrats-talk-leadership-changes-after-negative-election-results

[megaplayboy 1,642]

6 minutes ago, archer said:

Centerists House Democrats are talking about ousting Pelosi from the Speakership. They blame her for not going after Trump earlier on impeachment charges and for not attacking him more strenuously during the election. (She did seem to drop out of sight a lot more than I would have expected. And it's not unusual for the membership to blame the leader for losses or for smaller than expected gains.)

 

And they think that a fresh face might be better able to negotiate with Republicans in the House and Senate to shepherd through President Biden's legislation.

 

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/524503-centrist-democrats-talk-leadership-changes-after-negative-election-results

It seems like an unnecessary fight.  She already agreed that this next term would be her last in Congress and as Speaker.  

[Greywind 2,579]

Wisconsin is looking at a recount. Apparently they have more votes than voters.

[archer 1,719]

8 minutes ago, Greywind said:

Wisconsin is looking at a recount. Apparently they have more votes than voters.

 

You will need to explain that statement with more precision in order for me to understand it.

 

They have fewer votes than they have registered voters...so I'm not sure what you're trying to communicate.

[L. Marcus 2,405]

According to Snopes, someone compared votes cast in this election to the registered voters of 2018. Of course, this went viral.

[Old Man 11,221]

It's not as though people were more motivated than usual to vote this election.

 

Would it be possible to start backing up some of these assertions with reputable sources?  I'm as guilty of this as anyone but in the current climate of misinformation we really need to check our sources before posting here.

[Dr. MID-Nite 316]

50 minutes ago, L. Marcus said:

According to Snopes, someone compared votes cast in this election to the registered voters of 2018. Of course, this went viral.

 

Because you couldn't register to vote in 2019 or 2020?

[unclevlad 684]

4 hours ago, Greywind said:

https://www.judicialwatch.org/in-the-news/1-8-mill-ghost-voters

 

And they're just bouncing a story from the Washington Times, which might as well be Fox News.  

[archer 1,719]

MSNBC has reported that the Trump campaign has filed lawsuits to stop counting the vote in Georgia, Pennsylvania, and Michigan.

 

Humorously, Trump is behind in the vote currently in Michigan so if his lawsuit is successful, he will have succeeded in giving the state to Biden.

 

Hey @Hermit, remember when I told you last week that my worry was that they wouldn't count the vote at all?

 

Michigan and Pennsylvania:

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/524533-trump-campaign-mounts-legal-effort-as-race-favors-biden

 

Georgia:

https://thehill.com/regulation/court-battles/524571-new-trump-campaign-lawsuit-targets-late-arriving-georgia-mail

[Sociotard 1,332]

I often hear the argument that the electoral college ensures politicians care about small states. If that is its goal, I maintain it does not do it well.

 

 The implication is that if it were not for the electoral college, politicians would only care about New York and California. But, with the college, they care about Florida and Pennsylvania instead. This is not a great improvement.

 

I live in Idaho. The only reason politicians can distinguish us from Iowa is because at least that state has an important primary.

[Ragitsu 1,610]

 

[Lord Liaden 6,800]

I found this pretty insightful, as an explanation for committed Trumpists.

 

 

[Pariah 7,736]

1 hour ago, archer said:

MSNBC has reported that the Trump campaign has filed lawsuits to stop counting the vote in Georgia, Pennsylvania, and Michigan.

 

Humorously, Trump is behind in the vote currently in Michigan so if his lawsuit is successful, he will have succeeded in giving the state to Biden.

 

Hey @Hermit, remember when I told you last week that my worry was that they wouldn't count the vote at all?

 

Michigan and Pennsylvania:

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/524533-trump-campaign-mounts-legal-effort-as-race-favors-biden

 

Georgia:

https://thehill.com/regulation/court-battles/524571-new-trump-campaign-lawsuit-targets-late-arriving-georgia-mail

 

Republican allies break with Trump, say take time to count all the votes

 

The fact that Senators Mitch McConnell and Mike Lee are calling the President out on this is a bit surprising. But it gives me some hope, is it demonstrates that they at least know the correct process exists.

[Sociotard 1,332]

In interesting article that explains how the mysterious 130000 Biden votes might not be all that fishy.

 

https://www.vox.com/recode/2020/11/4/21549710/biden-michigan-votes-trump-retweet-election-map