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17 minutes ago, Pariah said:

 

Republican allies break with Trump, say take time to count all the votes

 

The fact that Senators Mitch McConnell and Mike Lee are calling the President out on this is a bit surprising. But it gives me some hope, is it demonstrates that they at least know the correct process exists.

 

IMO they must have some tactical reason in mind. Republicans have been subtly distancing themselves from Trump for several weeks, probably out of concern that aligning so closely with him as in the past could hurt their own political chances.

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I feel this needs to be shared.  

The legend lives on from the Apprentice on down of the big oompaloompa called Donnie The Donnie, it is said, always has some bed head and he's friends with a loon named Giulani Wit

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27 minutes ago, Sociotard said:

In interesting article that explains how the mysterious 130000 Biden votes might not be all that fishy.

 

https://www.vox.com/recode/2020/11/4/21549710/biden-michigan-votes-trump-retweet-election-map

 

When that typo came through to MSNBC, Steve Kornacki refused to put it on the screen so viewers could see it or discuss it when Rachel Maddow asked about it. He said that he thought the numbers had to be a mistake and on the air asked his producers to double check in order to find out whether the information was real.

 

That network, at least, never aired the incorrect number.

 

That was pretty classy in my opinion considering that the hosts were doing everything but openly cheerleading for Biden. :)

 

Of course, it did leave me wondering just exactly what the incorrect information was until I saw it from other sources.... 

27 minutes ago, Sociotard said:

 

 

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2 hours ago, archer said:

MSNBC has reported that the Trump campaign has filed lawsuits to stop counting the vote in Georgia, Pennsylvania, and Michigan.

 

Humorously, Trump is behind in the vote currently in Michigan so if his lawsuit is successful, he will have succeeded in giving the state to Biden.

 

Hey @Hermit, remember when I told you last week that my worry was that they wouldn't count the vote at all?

 

Michigan and Pennsylvania:

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/524533-trump-campaign-mounts-legal-effort-as-race-favors-biden

 

Georgia:

https://thehill.com/regulation/court-battles/524571-new-trump-campaign-lawsuit-targets-late-arriving-georgia-mail

 

 

Yup. I do recall.

 

Wish I could say I am surprised you were right to be concerned about that.

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26 minutes ago, Lord Liaden said:

 

IMO they must have some tactical reason in mind. Republicans have been subtly distancing themselves from Trump for several weeks, probably out of concern that aligning so closely with him as in the past could hurt their own political chances.

 

The Republicans like to be in the minority/spoiler position - paralyzing legislation while not taking blame (cf the entire Obama administration).  If Trump loses the election, it'll put them back in their sweet spot and allow them to mend some of the fences Trump kicked over, while continuing to block any/all legislation to change anything the Dems propose.  

 

Then they'll be in a strong position in 2024 running against Harris.

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34 minutes ago, Lord Liaden said:

 

IMO they must have some tactical reason in mind. Republicans have been subtly distancing themselves from Trump for several weeks, probably out of concern that aligning so closely with him as in the past could hurt their own political chances.

 

If I had to guess? They have the Senate. They have the Supreme Court. They can stale mate President Biden and trust the SC to be on their side. Trump is no longer needed by Mitch and crew.  They can drag feet under president biden, then blame him for the mess in 4 years rather than admit the deep hole was under trump's watch. 


Long game gains

 

 

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I think the Trump campaign approach now is to just sow as much doubt and discord, and to build up a 'bonfire' of allegations about election irregularity they'll use over and over again, in state houses in particular to try to restrict voting procedures and rights.

 

I also think Hermit's probably right;  now is the time to disengage from Trump the figure;  he isn't needed.  Even if in the end, Biden's our president come January, 2024 is likely a mess.

 

--I think Biden's a one-term president;  his age is a huge concern.

--I don't think Kamala Harris can win.  Too many angles where the Republicans can attack.

--The economy is going to be a disaster for a while, and the Senate is not going to play nice, probably.  Or not that nice.

--Taxes are going to *have* to be raised.  They'll also get raised from some of Trump's moves being ONLY for this year, which means the consequences will be on Biden.  But even more, all the money that's being spent to try to keep the country halfway afloat this year, has been financed with debt...which will require revenue to pay back.

--No one is going to break the Republican stranglehold on the Midwest and most of the South.  John McCain lost by a fairly large margin in the electoral college...but still won 22 states.  Even Bob Dole took 19, and that was running against an incumbent.  (And he wasn't exactly great on the campaign trail, IIRC.)  To be sure, there's the Democratic locks like New York and California...but each state has 2 electoral college votes from the Senators, so those little states mean more than you think.  

 

So there's going to be plenty to be unhappy about, I suspect, and quite probably more ammunition for the Republican strategists (and Fox News) to use against Biden than even the ammo Trump's freely given to every late night host.

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13 minutes ago, unclevlad said:

 

--Taxes are going to *have* to be raised.  They'll also get raised from some of Trump's moves being ONLY for this year, which means the consequences will be on Biden.  But even more, all the money that's being spent to try to keep the country halfway afloat this year, has been financed with debt...which will require revenue to pay back.

 

 

 

No, they don't.  At least, not under the Republican plans - we know what they want to cut, with payroll taxes/social security, and other entitlement spending being at the top of that list.  The Republican mantra since Reagan has been "Growth Through Slashing Spending".   Given their history, and Democratic willingness to capitulate to get *something* passed (again, look at the Obama administration), don't look for any future fiscally responsible legislation out of congress in the near term.

 

We'd have to have gotten a clear majority in both houses of Democrats *and* a clear repudiation of the interests of the donor class by those same Democrats (and Biden/Harris is clearly not the leader of that movement), to have any hope that the deficit or deficit enhancing catastrophes (let alone the debt) while maintaining services would get anything more than lip service. 

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1 hour ago, Hermit said:

If I had to guess? They have the Senate. They have the Supreme Court. They can stale mate President Biden and trust the SC to be on their side. Trump is no longer needed by Mitch and crew.  They can drag feet under president Biden, then blame him for the mess in 4 years rather than admit the deep hole was under trump's watch. 


Long game gains

 

 

Your guess sounds reasonable. But at the time I write this, both the Republicans and the Democrats look to have 48 seats in the Senate, with four races still to be called. If the Dems can gain three seats they'll have a majority; if they end up in a tie the Vice-President would cast the deciding vote. So it's still mathematically possible for the Dems to control the Senate, especially if Biden wins the presidency.

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Poll: 94% Of Nation Would Rather Live In Authoritarian Dictatorship Than Wait 10 More Minutes For Results

 

https://politics.theonion.com/poll-94-of-nation-would-rather-live-in-authoritarian-1845532103

 

"I would much prefer to be subjected to the cruel whims of an autocratic megalomaniac than wait any longer for the final election outcome,” 

 

At press time, the other 6% of respondents confirmed that they were willing to wait another five minutes maximum.

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2 hours ago, csyphrett said:

I don't want you to take this the wrong way, Hermit, but what is up with your state?
CES

 

No offense taken, I ask myself the same question. I love a lot about Tennessee, and some not so much. Why Kanye? I don't know who voted for him and I sure don't know why. It could be he has a lot of fans here. It could be some folks don't want to vote for Trump but knew that it wouldn't matter so they perhaps did it as a joke. Forgive the cynicism of "It wouldn't matter", but it was a largely foregone conclusion that Trump would win here. We had record breaking voting going on, no blame to the young Millienals and even younger Gen Zs. I'm sure they made up a great chunk of that 36% that DID go for Biden in the State. But the odds are firmly against Democrats here. 

 

Currently, Tennessee is redder than Texas.

Like anywhere, our cities tend towards blue, the suburban and rural go red , but unlike Texas , we don't have four of the most populated cities in the US. Not like our cities are Podunk, Bodunk, and Dead Skunk, but folks compare them to Dallas , Houston, and Austin and they're on the puny side. That said, we do have folks moving here. A running gag is that Tennessee is the Poor Man's Florida. That is, this is where folks move to retire if they can't afford to live in Florida. This means the older citizenry get an influx, and they tend to vote red.. the "Boomer" effect making red rural and suburbia areas redder still. 

 

It's not all gray hairs and old folks rocking on chairs sipping lemonade and going "Awww... it's good to have land"

 

We have folks moving here from other parts of the country feeling the 'califorincation' of their old states, or from California itself.  Wanting cheaper places to live, lower rents, no income tax, etc. fewer business restrictions on  whatever enterprise. (TN will bend over backwards for the chance at a new car plant... taxes, fees? NO.. that's for lesser mortals, milord.. not corporations like you)

Unfortunately for the Democrats...  the Californians were are getting aren't just looking for a cheaper life. Many of them are conservatives who go from a state they feel they have no chance of getting their votes to matter, and coming here where the hardest choice is what FLAVOR of Red they want.  

 

Tennessee has , normally, a pathetic voter turn out. Apathy and futility are powerful chains and we are well and truly bound. For all our boasting of the Volunteer state, when it comes to politics we stumble about in a grind. Our state legislature is currently in an iron grip of Republicans, and with Gov. Lee to help them, do their best to make sure the GOP stays in control by little moves like making if you get arrested in a peaceful protest, you can lose your voting rights. That'll teach you to think Black Lives Matter or that you had a freedom of Assembly, you little blue trouble maker you. We've got politicians so firmly affixed lips to ass to good ole boy networks, the State's own upper 5%, and , most of all, corporations determined to hold onto their mafia boss like monopolies. Add to that that Nashville is called the Vatican of the South because the Southern Baptist Union's stronghold is there (They put the FUN in Fundamentalist!) and the other evangelicals, one could make the point our religious zeal is frequently manipulated against our own interests. 

 

I have more than once run into a Tennessean who actually likes democratic ideas, even democratic socialist ideas, but they are one issue voters, and believe Abortion is murder-flat out, no wiggle room there. Democrats are seen as 'pro abortion' and thus, cannot be voted for.

 

I won't even get into the gun rights headaches.

 

So we have this large chunk, but NOT large enough, of 'Not republicans' who feel disenfranchised, hopeless, and helpless. Nothing they do, or say, or think will ever make a difference until the older generation and powerful interests ease their grip. So why not vote for Kanye ? At least it's different. At least it might get noticed, might be worth a joke, or might even piss someone off. Ah,power at last, fleeting, perhaps even petty.

 

And, at times, as I stare at a ballot, knowing the best  I can do is make the GOP worry a bit that they didn't get their usual mandate, overWHELMING victory, I can actually understand the urge. 

 

That's what's up with my state, Charlie Brown

 

*Sighs, drags blanket away*

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Hermit, much of what you said holds true here in Utah as well. We have something of a Vatican ourselves, and a lot of people here would rather not vote at all than vote for a Democrat. (Or vote for Kanye West; see above.) There are two main Democratic enclaves here, Salt Lake City and Park City, but outside of that the state is truly and thoroughly Red.

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14 minutes ago, Lord Liaden said:

Experience on the ground is worth a lot, though, especially when tempered with such thoughtfulness as yours. Thank you for the enlightening rundown.

You're welcome. I'll let you guys know when I switch from Pepsi to Jack Daniels. It may increase my already prestigious typo rate. There are GOOD people in Tennessee , both Republican and Democrat but I do believe we have become something of a warning to others without fully realizing it. I am not innocent in this mind you. I vote far more now than I did when  i was younger and I try to temper my knee jerk first reactions to the ideas of others.  So the above rant was certainly not a sinless stone to throw.

 

I am actually impressed with my state's turn out this year, but I fear the fact it still came out so status quo may discourage some of those Gen Zers and Millennials I spoke about.

 

 

1 minute ago, Pariah said:

Hermit, much of what you said holds true here in Utah as well. We have something of a Vatican ourselves, and a lot of people here would rather not vote at all than vote for a Democrat. (Or vote for Kanye West; see above.) There are two main Democratic enclaves here, Salt Lake City and Park City, but outside of that the state is truly and thoroughly Red.

 

I feel you. Some of the nicest folks I met in Nevada were Mormons, and not in a 'we want to convert you so we're ACTING nice' kind of way but the ones I met also were pretty honest about where they take their marching orders from on a lot of issues. Very similar to the Southern Baptists here indeed.

 

I have in the past suggested dividing the electoral college votes by percentage rather than abolishing the EC all together. I thought it would be an easier transition, more acceptable to all.

 

At this stage though if they scrapped it entirely, I would shed no tears.  For Conservatives in  Blue monopolies, and liberals in Red Strongholds, this current system borders on the soul crushing, at least from my perspective.

 

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On YouTube, David Pakman presented an interesting analysis of Trump voters' motivation: They think they're in a war. A war against abortion, against the fake news media; a war to protect Christian values, and to end the tyranny of "the left." In a war mindset, some casualties are to be expected. Some freedoms have to be curtailed. Moral qualms have to be set aside to achieve victory. And no amount of logic or facts is going to get through that attitude.

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25 minutes ago, Lord Liaden said:

On YouTube, David Pakman presented an interesting analysis of Trump voters' motivation: They think they're in a war. A war against abortion, against the fake news media; a war to protect Christian values, and to end the tyranny of "the left." In a war mindset, some casualties are to be expected. Some freedoms have to be curtailed. Moral qualms have to be set aside to achieve victory. And no amount of logic or facts is going to get through that attitude.

 

And Americans would rather fight to the death over idiotic nonissues and not focus at all on issues that might actually...you know...help people...like universal health care and education...or better job opportunities. I'm really fed up. The culture of anti intellectualism has made progress almost impossible.

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18 minutes ago, Lord Liaden said:

On YouTube, David Pakman presented an interesting analysis of Trump voters' motivation: They think they're in a war. A war against abortion, against the fake news media; a war to protect Christian values, and to end the tyranny of "the left." In a war mindset, some casualties are to be expected. Some freedoms have to be curtailed. Moral qualms have to be set aside to achieve victory. And no amount of logic or facts is going to get through that attitude.

 

I am not a good Christian, so at the risk of hypocrisy: It disgusts me how many religious people  seem to think Trump is sent by God to save them when even a glance at Jesus teachings would show that Trump is far more Anti-Christ than Christlike. Even sticking to the tend commandments He's lied, he's tried to steal, he's born false witness time and time again. He's encouraged the killing of others and his own lies have led to mass death.  He puts up idols to himself.  When you get to the new Testament "love thy neighbor" or the Beatitudes he really falls down. I've heard the excuse that God is using a flawed man to do his work blah blah, but in the end it's all contorted troll logic used by folks wanting to tell themselves how promoting a man of hatred and materialism is 'okay'. 

 

There's a line in the bible about people going to Jesus and claiming they did all this wonderful stuff in his name. I think a lot of folks in this country are at risk of getting a sad "I do not know you" in the hereafter. 

 

 

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42 minutes ago, Hermit said:

There's a line in the bible about people going to Jesus and claiming they did all this wonderful stuff in his name. I think a lot of folks in this country are at risk of getting a sad "I do not know you" in the hereafter.

 

Perhaps that's true, and some might even find a little solace in it. But it does nothing to help us in the here and now.

 

It pains me to say it, but you Americans who believe in real Christian values will find little getting better over the next four years. You're going to have to fight just to keep things from getting worse. And the rest of us in the world now have our work cut out figuring what we do next.

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2 hours ago, Dr. MID-Nite said:

 

And Americans would rather fight to the death over idiotic nonissues and not focus at all on issues that might actually...you know...help people...like universal health care and education...or better job opportunities. I'm really fed up. The culture of anti intellectualism has made progress almost impossible.

 

All one needs to do is chant "socialism" three times or utter "communism" once and the people are scared into submission. Our society is pathetic.

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