Political Discussion Thread (With Rules)

[Ternaugh]

55 minutes ago, TrickstaPriest said:

Well.  I didn't know he had been arrested.

 

It wasn't for the threats, but for fraud in association with a charity that was supposed to help build the wall. He was arrested back in August.

[TrickstaPriest]

28 minutes ago, Ternaugh said:

It wasn't for the threats, but for fraud in association with a charity that was supposed to help build the wall. He was arrested back in August.

 

There seems to be a direct appeal from Trump's most loyal associates to murder the people judging/investigating/prosecuting them.  While arguing for their (edit: own) innocence at the same time.

 

And people wonder why I don't like this person.

[Lord Liaden]

So a prominent American is now calling for the same tactics as ISIS.

[TrickstaPriest]

1 minute ago, Lord Liaden said:

So a prominent American is now calling for the same tactics as ISIS.

 

Prominent ex member of Trump's cabinet or advisory board?  Man, it's been so long... and so many names.

 

I'm sure he doesn't see it that way.  Because this is all about winning for the sake of ruling, not for anything else.

[archer]

3 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

The Dems really don't get it. They put up the most moderate, nay right-of-center, candidate they could. They still lost, compared to what they expected to win. Being Republicans with a paint job isn't going to cut it. They need a vision, and they need to sell it to get the public excited. It doesn't matter whether or not they talk about more leftist policies, because the Republicans will accuse them of being socialists without any evidence anyway. But all polls show that the majority of Americans want a government health care option. They want more support for the middle class and small business. They want stricter vetting for gun owners. They want more federal oversight and coordination in the face of crises. They want environmental action. Those policies are winners.

 

I remember a remark made on camera by one delegate to the Democratic primaries: "When we play it safe, like Hillary Clinton, we lose. When we take a chance, like Barack Obama, we win."

 

One of the greatest nuggets of political wisdom I've ever heard is that you have to win an election before you can pass legislation.

 

At this point with the Democrats, the tipping point over whether they get to pass any substantial legislation during a Biden administration is whether they win the two Senate seats in Georgia in the run-off election there on January 5th.

 

For the House, they aren't going to pass any substantial Democrat legislation before January 5th. So having Democrat House members out there talking up things which are going to motivate Republican voters to come out in special elections (which usually have a lower turnout) isn't a good thing.

 

Democrat House members need to step back and let those two Senate candidates choose their own messaging. Ossoff running against Senator Perdue, for example, made a lot out of Perdue's corruption, Perdue cancelling the last debate because he was beaten up so badly by Ossoff in the one debate they had, and Perdue's open anti-Semitism in his campaign advertising (Ossoff is Jewish and running for a Senate seat in Georgia where there's very few Jews and a lengthy history of anti-Semitism). Ossoff doesn't need the hassle of having to defend or justify every statement by every House member between now and January 5th.

 

Or as two of the top House members referred to how to handle those two January races:

 

House Majority Whip Jim Clyburn: “[if] we are going to run on Medicare for All, defund the police, socialized medicine, we're not going to win."

 

Pelosi responded by saying House members should focus on an "agenda of lowering health care [costs], better paychecks, building infrastructure.”

 

 

[Old Man]

4 hours ago, archer said:

 

Rep. Abigail Spanberger of Virginia, whose race is still undecided: "We need to be pretty clear. It was a failure. It was not a success. We lost incredible members of Congress." As she continued and got more worked up, she yelled, “No one should say ‘defund the police’ ever again. Nobody should be talking about socialism." She went on to warn that Democrats continued in that vein in 2022: "We will get f------ torn apart."

 

Note the House Democrats who lost their races were moderates in swing states so a lot of the content of the call was blaming the more radical talk, and members like The Squad (Representatives Rashida Tlaib, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, Ilhan Omar, and Ayanna Pressley), for costing the party those seats.

 

This is disappointing, but hardly surprising.  Biden is Republican-lite at best, but the hysterical right wing fear machine painted him as an antifa socialist anyway.  And these guys continue to allow the Republicans to define the Overton window and frame the debate.  It's unreal. 

 

"Socialism", my ass.  A less exploitative minimum wage, and healthcare that isn't subject to the whims of my employer, are not socialism. Wake me up when people start talking about seizing the means of production and giving control of distribution over to the collective. 

 

Defunding the police needs a much better catchphrase.

[Old Man]

[Lord Liaden]

1 hour ago, archer said:

 

One of the greatest nuggets of political wisdom I've ever heard is that you have to win an election before you can pass legislation.

 

 

The strategy the Democrats have been following has not been translating to winning, not in any meaningful sense.

 

1 hour ago, archer said:

 

Democrat House members need to step back and let those two Senate candidates choose their own messaging. Ossoff running against Senator Perdue, for example, made a lot out of Perdue's corruption, Perdue cancelling the last debate because he was beaten up so badly by Ossoff in the one debate they had, and Perdue's open anti-Semitism in his campaign advertising (Ossoff is Jewish and running for a Senate seat in Georgia where there's very few Jews and a lengthy history of anti-Semitism). Ossoff doesn't need the hassle of having to defend or justify every statement by every House member between now and January 5th.

 

 

I can see the pragmatism in backing off for those two races. But that's just for this coming January, and that might, might, translate to just barely squeeking by with the thinnest, most fragile "control" of the Senate imaginable. That won't give the Dems the freedom to enact the legislation to deal with the pressing problems America faces.

 

1 hour ago, archer said:

 

House Majority Whip Jim Clyburn: “[if] we are going to run on Medicare for All, defund the police, socialized medicine, we're not going to win."

 

 

Agreed, if they use the same provocative, misleading labels the Republicans have, they're not going to win. The specific policies have broad public support, but the Dems need to take one lesson from Trump: you have to sell your ideas to your target audience.

 

Barack Obama sold Americans on a vision of hope and compassion. Whatever you think of his presidency, his message was on-point and reached a majority of the country. I've long contended that such a message is the only effective counter to the Trumpian message of fear and hatred. Chasing the political middle is a losing game so long as they let the Republicans keep moving the middle farther and farther to the right. The Democrats need to start selling a vision that pushes it back toward balance.

[archer]

Mark Meadows, Trump's Chief of Staff, has tested positive for COVID.

 

As a side note, I think it's interesting that the White House waited until after midnight to release that information.

 

He tested positive on Monday, Tuesday, or, Wednesday. One source inside the White House said Meadows informed a close circle of advisers after Tuesday’s election

 

He'd been seen running around Trump's campaign headquarters maskless on both Tuesday and Wednesday.

 

I'm sure we'll get more information about his movements this week after the press wakes up in the morning.

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-e2-80-99s-chief-of-staff-mark-meadows-infected-by-coronavirus/ar-BB1aMrLi

[Lord Liaden]

It will take several days after the Trumps move out of the White House before the Bidens can move in, for crews to disinfect the place. And also get rid of any coronavirus.

[BoloOfEarth]

Looks like Trump may have been right about someone trying to slip fake ballots into the election. 

 

https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/07/us/pennsylvania-convention-center-arrests/index.html

 

Ironically, they appear to be Trump supporters, so three guesses as to which candidates were selected on those fake ballots. 

[wcw43921]

9 hours ago, Old Man said:

 

I've been looking for a site that would tell me the popular vote count after votes were counted on November 3rd, but the above post says the same thing I wanted to point out--that if all that mattered were the popular vote, this election would have been decided days ago.

 

So now, perhaps, we can agree that in an age where the speed of communication is no longer limited to the speed of transit, that the Electoral College has outlived its usefulness, and we should find a way to transition to a system where the President is elected by direct popular vote, either by Constitutional amendment or the Popular Vote Compact?

[death tribble]

As a foreign observer I can say that I have never known it take so long to settle the American election.

[Cygnia]

XKCD on point

 

[Greywind]

13 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

So a prominent American is now calling for the same tactics as ISIS.

 

I wouldn't call Bannon prominent.

[Hermit]

Well, I will say this is a lesson in patience in the age of the internet.

 

I am learning so much about patience.

 

Like I really hate having to use it.

 

 

[wcw43921]

1 hour ago, death tribble said:

As a foreign observer I can say that I have never known it take so long to settle the American election.

 

Surely you're old enough to remember the 2000 election, George W. Bush vs. Al Gore, and how it came down to one state--Florida--and the whole examination of the punch-card ballots to determined if the vote was all correct.

[Hermit]

11 hours ago, Old Man said:

 

This is disappointing, but hardly surprising.  Biden is Republican-lite at best, but the hysterical right wing fear machine painted him as an antifa socialist anyway.  And these guys continue to allow the Republicans to define the Overton window and frame the debate.  It's unreal. 

 

"Socialism", my ass.  A less exploitative minimum wage, and healthcare that isn't subject to the whims of my employer, are not socialism. Wake me up when people start talking about seizing the means of production and giving control of distribution over to the collective. 

 

Defunding the police needs a much better catchphrase.

 

One gripe I hear from those who have their own small businesses is about the ACA and how they can't keep up covering their employees, and how it's like a second job etc etc.

 

I think if you promoted it to them as "How would you like it your employees health care was NOT your problem? how would you like it if you didn't lose great employees because you couldn't get the same great health insurance deals the big boys offer? " A lot of small business men would get on board. Enlightened Self Interest is a powerful marketing tool.

 

As for Defund the Police? yeah, that one has backfired and big time

 

How about "Make the  Blue True" ? As a title for reforming law enforcement? Sure,some cops will rankle at the idea they aren't true, but it might fly better with others.

 

 

[Hugh Neilson]

Associated Press has called Pennsylvania, and the election, for Biden.

 

Let The Recounts and Challenges Commence!

[Pariah]

5 hours ago, BoloOfEarth said:

Looks like Trump may have been right about someone trying to slip fake ballots into the election. 

 

https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/07/us/pennsylvania-convention-center-arrests/index.html

 

Ironically, they appear to be Trump supporters, so three guesses as to which candidates were selected on those fake ballots. 

 

I don't find this ironic at all. I find it a perfectly logical outcome of the President's rhetoric and tactics.

[death tribble]

So barring the legal challenges, it is over ?

[Certified]

10 minutes ago, death tribble said:

So barring the legal challenges, it is over ?

[Ranxerox]

I'm claiming the obvious joke.

 

"Mr Trump, you're fired!"

[Cygnia]

[Starlord]

YOU'RE FIRED!