Political Discussion Thread (With Rules)

[unclevlad]

2 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

To be honest, you see this kind of infighting among white supremacists all the time. They make a lot of noise, but when it comes to action they're too angry, undisciplined, and insecure to cooperate effectively. It's why I never bought into the fear of a civil war under loser Trump's provocation. Sure, there could be localized violence, but large-scale coordination is beyond them.

 

Even the violence may be overrated. Movements like these tend to draw people who love to talk tough, but lack the stomach for real risky confrontation.

 

One can hope...because this is also the path to, say, the Provisional Wing of the IRA.

And it doesn't take a large-scale organization to plant bombs to do a LOT of damage.

 

EDIT:  I don't think the KKK ever had particularly large numbers either.

[Matt the Bruins]

As an Arkansas resident, they had (and HAVE) more than enough.

[megaplayboy]

5 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

To be honest, you see this kind of infighting among white supremacists all the time. They make a lot of noise, but when it comes to action they're too angry, undisciplined, and insecure to cooperate effectively. It's why I never bought into the fear of a civil war under loser Trump's provocation. Sure, there could be localized violence, but large-scale coordination is beyond them.

 

Even the violence may be overrated. Movements like these tend to draw people who love to talk tough, but lack the stomach for real risky confrontation.

Stochastic terrorism is a bigger threat going forward than organized terrorism.  Organized terror groups can be tracked, infiltrated and disrupted, but "lone wolves"(inspired by extremist ideologies) are harder to stop and still capable of doing a lot of damage.  

[Lord Liaden]

3 hours ago, unclevlad said:

 

One can hope...because this is also the path to, say, the Provisional Wing of the IRA.

And it doesn't take a large-scale organization to plant bombs to do a LOT of damage.

 

EDIT:  I don't think the KKK ever had particularly large numbers either.

 

The Provisional IRA -- any of the groups using the IRA designation -- are a different phenomenon IMO. They were a response to particular repressive policies and actions by the British, they had clearly defined and logical goals, and they confined their attacks to strategic targets. Hatred there certainly was, but it wasn't blind or irrational. And not to minimize the suffering from the Troubles, but Ireland is a far smaller country and population than the United States, so more localized actions still make a wide impression.

 

I do agree with you, though, that small groups can cause a great deal of harm. But they can't fight an actual war.

[Lord Liaden]

15 minutes ago, megaplayboy said:

Stochastic terrorism is a bigger threat going forward than organized terrorism.  Organized terror groups can be tracked, infiltrated and disrupted, but "lone wolves"(inspired by extremist ideologies) are harder to stop and still capable of doing a lot of damage.  

 

Agreed. Vigilance by law enforcement helps a great deal to curb the damage, but such people are impossible to wholly stop.

 

I do get concerned that the actions of "lone wolves" are given a far higher weight by the average person than they deserve, though. Most human beings don't seem to have a logical threat assessment mechanism. When there are reported incidents of violence in an area, people tend to react with fear and avoid doing things and going places they normally would. But statistically we have a higher chance of being hit by lightning, and a much higher chance of dying in a car crash, than of dying due to random shooting or a bomb. Reasonable precautions would keep most of us safe, and the remaining risk is up to unpredictable and uncontrollable chance. The people who commit those acts want to evoke that fear, want us to stop doing and being. I don't think we should give them what they want.

[unclevlad]

Threat assessment isn't logical, as a rule, and the impact of an event is much broader than the direct impact.  

 

You also have to consider the cumulative effects of both clearly terrorist attacks (OKC, 9/11, Boston Marathon, PULSE) and the shootings that don't seem to have an ideological basis...Mandalay Bay, school shootings, etc.

 

NOW, also, combine that the potential perps are openly racist, so their targets form a much restricted subset.  And that some of their targets fear that the local authorities will be...less than enthusiastic...about preventing something.  Throw in that not quashing their threats, empowers others towards discrimination, so there's a kind of "hate force" multiplier effect.  And those targeted won't stand quietly and take it...and the demonstrations this summer were believed to be a big factor with Trump voters.

[Starlord]

Trump administration not allowing Biden team access to Intelligence briefings

 

State Department is preventing Biden from accessing messages from foreign leaders

[TrickstaPriest]

3 hours ago, Starlord said:

Trump administration not allowing Biden team access to Intelligence briefings

 

State Department is preventing Biden from accessing messages from foreign leaders

 

It's almost like everything we've been saying about him is true.  😕

[BoloOfEarth]

6 hours ago, Starlord said:

Trump administration not allowing Biden team access to Intelligence briefings

 

Yeah, but would Biden want to see the same briefings that Trump gets?  To fit within Trump's attention span, I imagine briefings are simplified to the point of cartoon pictures and short clips from Fox News. 

[unclevlad]

Op piece today about how Trump's anti-protest attacks on sports and athletes fell apart, in the NYT.  There's one paragraph that sums things up very nicely:

 

Quote

Doug Sosnik, the political director for Clinton, described Trump in an email as a verbal “day trader” who, once his lines begin to fall flat, “moves on to the next shiny object that will arouse his supporters.”

 

Another op piece today equating Trump's post-election antics to the writer's 3 year old son's tantrums.  Cute story but old hat here...

 

 

 

[Ragitsu]

15 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

 

Agreed. Vigilance by law enforcement helps a great deal to curb the damage, but such people are impossible to wholly stop.

 

I do get concerned that the actions of "lone wolves" are given a far higher weight by the average person than they deserve, though. Most human beings don't seem to have a logical threat assessment mechanism. When there are reported incidents of violence in an area, people tend to react with fear and avoid doing things and going places they normally would. But statistically we have a higher chance of being hit by lightning, and a much higher chance of dying in a car crash, than of dying due to random shooting or a bomb. Reasonable precautions would keep most of us safe, and the remaining risk is up to unpredictable and uncontrollable chance. The people who commit those acts want to evoke that fear, want us to stop doing and being. I don't think we should give them what they want.

 

Politicians that push incendiary rhetoric targeted at their more unstable constituents deserve to be excoriated.

[Lectryk]

Has anyone heard about a boycott/refusal to use mass media (TV, FaceBook, Twitter, et al - substitute Parler, One Network and such) to start on November 13th? 

 

Copied below is a call to arms (don't bother to read if you don't want to - it's saying there are 71 million of us, we should show our strength, don't buy in to to usage of media, etc - there is also a 'quote' from a 'constitutional attorney' about how Trump can still be President, and the vote is going to the Supreme Court) that I can't find any other info about yet.

 

I don't think it'll have any real effect (if it's a real effort, even); but it would be nice if it hurt Facebook/Twitter/etc along with Fox, since they put us here in the first place.  That brings up another thing, for the Aussie members of the list - what has the U.S. done to you that justifies Murdoch in retaliation?

 

 

Again, don't read if nonsensical blather bothers you -

 

"Subject: It’s not over

From a friend...powerful

🇺🇸71 Million Trump🇺🇸voters. It’s time we really fight back! Please copy and paste this and share to every Trump supporter you know! We need to be impactful as we can starting November 13th.

It’s time to MOBILIZE!
It’s time we put forth the power we truly hold in this country. This working class truly is the heart of America. We are being tested!

Starting November 13th

️Step 1: Move to Parler and exit Facebook & Twitter ️Step 2: Turn off the TV. Do not tune into CNN, FOX, MSNBC, ABC, NBC or any other mainstream media stations. Tune into OAN or Newsmax ️Step 3: November 13th - December 1st Do not spend any money on Amazon or any large retailers! Support only small businesses!

We don’t loot, we don’t burn we don’t turn to violence, we do things differently!

Please COPY & PASTE
Thank you

Below is from a constitutional attorney:

Ok in a nutshell... This is going to the Supreme Court. Where they will rule that the election is invalid due to fraud or mistakes on a country wide scale.  It will go one of two ways, either they will rule that all the unconstitutional mail in ballots will be removed and the states ordered to recount without them  or they will simply rule the election is invalid due to mass voter fraud and at that point it will be sent to the congress and senate for a vote. This is where it gets good. The house/congress votes on who the President will be. It has nothing to do with what party that has power. Every State gets one vote and 30 States are held by Republicans.and 19 by Democrats. They have to vote down party lines, they have no choice due to the 12th Amendment of the Constitution and the Senate votes for the Vice President where a similar even will take place.  This is The law.  This is why the Democrats are so mad at Nancy Pelosi. This will all happen in January. The only way President Trump won’t be President is if he concedes the election and that will never happen!

Sent from my iPhone"

Edited November 12, 2020 by Lectryk
misspelled word

[TrickstaPriest]

More or less my nightmare scenario.  All my talk about them establishing pretense.

 

I've been watching the fraud scenarios, trying to get as much 'from the source' or 'legal submissions' from anything that still hangs around.  So far the only thing I've seen is the poll worker who recanted and recanted again.  And the story about the glitching software in Michigan.  Everything else is describing a story that's been thrown out of court, or so absurd that it's almost physically impossible to actually do.

[TrickstaPriest]

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/stream-sanctions-iran-trump-administration

[csyphrett]

The Supreme Court is already said Hahahahaha no. Suck it up, buttercup.

CES 

[Starlord]

1 hour ago, Lectryk said:

Has anyone heard about a boycott/refusal to use mass media (TV, FaceBook, Twitter, et al - substitute Parler, One Network and such) to start on November 13th? 

 

 

No, but I am seeing this particular pic popping up at an exponential rate amongst my conservative friends and even from one of my fellow independents:

 

 

[TrickstaPriest]

Just now, Starlord said:

 

No, but I am seeing this particular pic popping up at an exponential rate amongst my conservative friends and even from one of my fellow independents:

 

 

 

Sounds like he managed to tear this country in two, then.

[csyphrett]

The only two I have heard of is Duck and Newsmax (which out of the two stories quoted from them was inaccurate as rocks never fall)

CES  

[Ragitsu]

 

[Old Man]

1 hour ago, TrickstaPriest said:

 

Sounds like he managed to tear this country in two, then.

 

To be honest I think the country was already torn in two and all he did was expose the tear.  For seventy million Americans, open white supremacy is not a dealbreaker in a presidential candidate.  In fact for many of them it's a feature.

[Tom]

Just to remind me the world is full of potential crazy, I saw where someone purchased a slot on a digital billboard I was driving by quoting the "Tree of Liberty" line...

[TrickstaPriest]

7 minutes ago, Tom said:

Just to remind me the world is full of potential crazy, I saw where someone purchased a slot on a digital billboard I was driving by quoting the "Tree of Liberty" line...

 

When they say blood of tyrants, they mean the libs.

 

This is pretty much a cold civil war.

[TrickstaPriest]

It looks like SCOTUS has ruled on ACA.  That is at least a bit of relief

[wcw43921]

There may be hope for unification after all--

[TrickstaPriest]

You might be right, I hope.

 

I'm trying to be less doomer.