Political Discussion Thread (With Rules)

[Old Man 11,294]

4 hours ago, unclevlad said:

 

Now if they also start pushing McConnell, Graham, etc....

STOP THE PRESSES!!!!!!

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2020/11/23/us/joe-biden-trump?action=click&module=Spotlight&pgtype=Homepage
 

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Oh, are they done destroying evidence already? Thought it would take way longer than three weeks. 

[archer 1,781]

1 hour ago, Old Man said:

Oh, are they done destroying evidence already? Thought it would take way longer than three weeks. 

 

I was going to give this a "haha" response but since that's exactly what's happening, I wouldn't want my response to mislead anyone.

 

Did I ever get around to posting the Politico story about how Trump physically rips up every piece of paper which is handed to him and throws it either into the trash or onto the floor?

 

Since by law such documents have to be preserved, the government is paying several people ($62,000 a year each) and a large part of their job has become to reassemble shreds of paper and to scotch tape them back together into documents and put them in clear sleeves for preservation.

 

When Trump found out about it, he tried to fire everyone in the office. When told he couldn't fire everyone because by law presidential documents have to be preserved, he fired two of the four people who work in the preservation of records department.

[archer 1,781]

Trump withdraws US from the Open Skies treaty.

 

That's a post-Cold War treaty among 35 countries including the US and Russia which allows them to fly unarmed surveillance flights over each other's territory at short notice.

 

It's designed to keep countries from being able to build secret missile bases like those which led to the Cuban missiles crisis. Or from being able to have troops buildups for invasions like Russia invading the Ukraine, without anyone noticing.

 

It also allows the 35 countries to share the intelligence they gather from such overflights with each other.

 

The way that this has worked in practice is that the US has watched Russia and shared the intelligence with the other countries so that Russia can't, for example, mount a surprise invasion of Latvia, Lithuania, or Estonia.

 

To put a cherry on top, the surveillance has been done by the US using two specialized C-135b spy planes loaded down with tech. Trump is in the process of trashing those airplanes and the technology they contain because they're supposedly obsolete and additionally unneeded since we're no longer in the treaty. 

 

Back in the summer, the Trump administration killed the program which was supposed to come up with replacements for those two airplanes.

 

So by the time Biden comes into office, the airplanes will be no more and there's no program existing to replace them. Even if Biden wants to re-enter the treaty, there's no guarantee that Russia would immediately accept that the US is allowed to fly over their territory on short notice once again.

 

Trump is basically throwing the doors open and is inviting Putin to invade any or all of the countries which were formerly in the USSR and has robbed NATO of the intelligence they'd need to respond to Russian troop buildups or try diplomatic channels before a Russian invasion starts.

 

Unfortunately the Wall Street Journal article which contains most of the information is behind a paywall. Here's a partial look at the story:

 

https://www.rawstory.com/2020/11/trump-quits-treaty-allowing-us-to-fly-reconnaissance-missions-over-russia-will-destroy-planes/

 

“We’ve started liquidating the equipment,” a senior U.S. official told the Wall Street Journal. “Other countries can come purchase or just take the airframes. They are really old and cost-prohibitive for us to maintain. We don’t have a use for them anymore.”

 

I really try to not rant about treason, the need for prosecution, the need to slow Trump down by impeaching him now, the need to invoke the 25th amendment, and all the rest. 

 

But it is very, very difficult at times.

[Lord Liaden 6,878]

As we've discussed here, "treason" would be a legally problematic charge. However, Trump has unquestionably undermined American national security, by cancelling treaties, abandoning allies, gutting the diplomatic and intelligence corps of their most qualified officers, and blurting out classified info to the public and/or America's enemies. Sadly, making such decisions most likely falls under the legal purview of the POTUS.

[archer 1,781]

2 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

As we've discussed here, "treason" would be a legally problematic charge. However, Trump has unquestionably undermined American national security, by cancelling treaties, abandoning allies, gutting the diplomatic and intelligence corps of their most qualified officers, and blurting out classified info to the public and/or America's enemies. Sadly, making such decisions most likely falls under the legal purview of the POTUS.

 

Legally problematic is another way of saying legally possible.

 

We still have no idea what we will find once we're able to examine Trump's financial records (which will definitely be open to congressional scrutiny once Trump has left office) nor what we will find in whatever documents and transcripts which Trump doesn't manage to destroy from his time as commander-in-chief.

 

Nor do we know what his lackies will say when under threat of indictment themselves and Trump no longer able to promise them pardons.

[Lord Liaden 6,878]

 

[archer 1,781]

Trump makes one-minute appearance to tout Dow's 30,000

 

But the stock market rally today started because it looks like the administration has conceded the presidential race and has started the transition to the end of the Trump era and a return to normalcy.

 

More winning.

 

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/527365-trump-makes-one-minute-appearance-to-tout-dows-30000

[archer 1,781]

Record number of absentee ballots requested in Georgia runoff election

 

Already more than triple the number of requests than happened for the 2018 midterm election.

 

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/527426-record-number-of-ballots-requested-in-georgia-runoff-election

 

(Funniest comment so far: Show those libs you won't stand for them stealing the election from Trump by writing his name in on your votes for the Georgia senate run-off! #MAGA!)

[Matt the Bruins 451]

23 hours ago, BoloOfEarth said:

... off a cliff?

 

Quite a job considering we'd have to push Graham closet and all, and there's no telling how many skeletons are in it.

 

We're going to need a lot of strapping young men.

[archer 1,781]

I referenced this story earlier but I had to make some time to go back and find it:

 

Meet the Guys Who Tape Trump's Papers Back Together

 

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/06/10/trump-papers-filing-system-635164

[TrickstaPriest 290]

29 minutes ago, archer said:

I referenced this story earlier but I had to make some time to go back and find it:

 

Meet the Guys Who Tape Trump's Papers Back Together

 

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/06/10/trump-papers-filing-system-635164

 

I appreciate it.

[unclevlad 712]

15 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

 

 

The Fox News guy is throwing out so much *insane* BS throughout....  

I only watched the first 3 minutes, but big kudos to the Dominion spokesman for not losing it.  The allegations tossed out by the Fox News guy don't even approach laughable.

[Lord Liaden 6,878]

I believe the interviewer was asking about actual allegations made, maybe by Trump, maybe his lawyers or spokespeople, maybe by elected Republican officials. I noticed he recited each question rather expressionlessly, then after the Dominion rep answered he moved on to the next question without comment. I got the impression the host didn't want to ask them, but was doing the job he was given. That methodical, detailed dispassion may turn out to be the most effective way to reply to the frequent near-hysteria of Trumpists.

[unclevlad 712]

Yeah, I noted the same thing;  one can readily enough argue that this looks like one of the news department people, not one of the talking heads.  So on a personal level he probably deserves some slack...and even perhaps sympathy.  But it was still all pure steer manure.

 

And some of it is so incredibly whacked out.  Venezuela ties?  Really?  What's next, they'll find V. M. Smith and assert Martian influence?

 

[csyphrett 961]

I waiting for Jimmy Hoffa to be found at the bottom of Trump Tower. That's the kind of year 2020 has been

CES  

[archer 1,781]

HHS Secretary Azar says states will decide who gets first Covid-19 shots. "We hope our recommendations will carry weight with [states] but at the end of the day, they will make that decision."

 

So basically, even at this point in the process, we get no federal leadership and no national policy. 

 

There's going to be 50 different distribution plans determined by politicians ranging from those who take the virus seriously to those who continue to think the virus is a hoax and resist taking even basic public safety measures.

 

Who wants to bet that there will be states where vulnerable people will have to line up for hours indoors in mask-optional lines in order to get their vaccine shot?

 

And how many vulnerable people in those states will line up, twice, to get their vaccine shot...without realizing that if they get infected while in line before the vaccine has weeks to take effect that the vaccination will be absolutely worthless for preventing their illness?

 

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/11/24/alex-azar-coronavirus-vaccine-states-440337

[Lord Liaden 6,878]

6 hours ago, unclevlad said:

 

And some of it is so incredibly whacked out.  Venezuela ties?  Really?  What's next, they'll find V. M. Smith and assert Martian influence?

 

 

Oddly enough, that one actually has a kernel of reality to it. Sequoia Voting Services out of Florida, which designed and built the first generation of these voting machines and software, was purchased by a Venezuela-based company in 2005, and most of their designers at that time were based there. CNN did an expose of that in 2006, which has recently popped up on YouTube and is frequently being linked to as "proof" of the machines' subversion by "leftists," not to mention CNN's hypocrisy.

 

What's being left out is that Sequoia was sold again in 2010, to Dominion Voting Services, a company originating in Canada but incorporated in the United States, with dual corporate headquarters in Toronto and Denver. Dominion has no ties to Venezuela or any other "socialist" country, unless you count Canada.   (About ten minutes of online research was enough to clarify the issue. I also fact-bombed one of the video's comments section. I imagine I'm not too popular there.)

[archer 1,781]

President-elect Biden at the moment is giving a heart-felt Thanksgiving speech.

 

He was talking about those we lost to COVID and the empty spots which will be around the Thanksgiving tables across the country this year. And started talking about the pain of losing his wife that first year  and was apparently going to try to tie that thought into Thanksgiving and what he went through.

 

But he kind of chocked up half-way through trying to get to his point and said, "I remember that first Thanksgiving" then kind of trailed off (choked up a bit), didn't complete the thought, and went on to something else.

 

I turned to my wife and said, "I knew he was old but I didn't realize that he was was there at the first Thanksgiving."

 

Ba dum bum. < cymbal crash >

 

 

In any case, he's giving a really classy speech. It's going to be so refreshing to have someone who sounds like a compassionate and caring professional leading the country. I know it's only been a few years since we've had that, but it feels like it's been so much longer.

 

 

[Matt the Bruins 451]

22 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

That methodical, detailed dispassion may turn out to be the most effective way to reply to the frequent near-hysteria of Trumpists.

Gray rocking is generally the most effective way to deal with people who have attention-seeking personality disorders. Getting drawn into their drama isn't productive.

[Lord Liaden 6,878]

8 hours ago, archer said:

In any case, he's giving a really classy speech. It's going to be so refreshing to have someone who sounds like a compassionate and caring professional leading the country. I know it's only been a few years since we've had that, but it feels like it's been so much longer.

 

 

 

Maybe Trump has helped remind us that those qualities weigh for more than individual political policies. If a leader starts from a position of compassion and competence, the details can be worked out.

[Pariah 7,793]

2 hours ago, Matt the Bruins said:

Gray rocking is generally the most effective way to deal with people who have attention-seeking personality disorders. Getting drawn into their drama isn't productive.

 

As Mark Twain is reported to have said, "Never argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." 

[unclevlad 712]

17 hours ago, archer said:

There's going to be 50 different distribution plans determined by politicians ranging from those who take the virus seriously to those who continue to think the virus is a hoax and resist taking even basic public safety measures.

 

 

I'd worry less about that and worry more about how local culture will impact the prioritization.

I mean, can you imagine Alabama officials NOT making sure the Crimson Tide football team is in the first wave to get the vaccine?

[archer 1,781]

5 hours ago, Matt the Bruins said:

Gray rocking is generally the most effective way to deal with people who have attention-seeking personality disorders. Getting drawn into their drama isn't productive.

 

I've never hit any mentally ill person with a gray rock before. Do I start with big rocks and work my way down or small rocks and work my way up?

[archer 1,781]

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/11/26/trump-conspiracies-georgia-senate-440776

 

Trump’s conspiracies have MAGA world talking Georgia boycott

 

Their reason: The two GOP candidates, Sens. Kelly Loeffler and David Perdue, are not only insufficiently pro-Trump, they may be complicit in Georgia’s electoral fraud.

 

It doesn’t matter that both candidates are essentially lock-step with Trump, or that there is no evidence of links to electoral malfeasance. On Twitter and its less-restrictive alternative Parler, Trump’s more hardline followers have linked the duo to the president’s favorite — and untrue — voter-fraud theories. Hashtags like #CrookedPerdue and #CrookedKelly are flying around. The two lawmakers’ Parler accounts are brimming with posts accusing them of being secret “liberal DemoRats.”

 

Live by the QAnon, die by the QAnon.

[Lord Liaden 6,878]

Donald Trump has motivated and mobilized the diseased underbelly of American society. They now feel united and not afraid to say what they feel. That may be Trump's worst but longest-lasting legacy.