Political Discussion Thread (With Rules)

[Pariah]

What's next?

 

On his way out of office, Trump appoints Conway, Chao to government positions

[Lord Liaden]

[Mister Rogers] "Can you say, 'nepotism?' I knew that you could." [/Mister Rogers]

[TrickstaPriest]

https://www.reuters.com/article/businessNews/idUSKBN28H2V1

 

(edit, ignore this.  I mathed completely wrong) So... the FCC is giving 2 million dollars per household to set up broadband in rural areas~

 

 

 

Also this.  So I can add fearing for my life from my neighbors murdering me for no reason, as a part of their 'new political movement with Trump'.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/the-arizona-gop-asks-supporters-if-theyre-willing-to-die-to-overturn-trumps-election-loss/ar-BB1bKoNU

[Lectryk]

46 minutes ago, TrickstaPriest said:

https://www.reuters.com/article/businessNews/idUSKBN28H2V1

 

(edit, ignore this.  I mathed completely wrong) So... the FCC is giving 2 million dollars per household to set up broadband in rural areas~

 

 

 

Also this.  So I can add fearing for my life from my neighbors murdering me for no reason, as a part of their 'new political movement with Trump'.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/the-arizona-gop-asks-supporters-if-theyre-willing-to-die-to-overturn-trumps-election-loss/ar-BB1bKoNU

 

Probably a better investment than the ~60 billion dollars in the F22/weapons welfare boondoggle.  At least this 9 billion will maybe have an impact on education, health, economically, etc on those communities, and not just the corporations winning the contracts.

 

I know I'd like to have gig speed to my house .  

[unclevlad]

46 minutes ago, TrickstaPriest said:

Also this.  So I can add fearing for my life from my neighbors murdering me for no reason, as a part of their 'new political movement with Trump'.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/the-arizona-gop-asks-supporters-if-theyre-willing-to-die-to-overturn-trumps-election-loss/ar-BB1bKoNU

 

I still don't expect there will be large-scale violence, and as time moves forward, I think the chance of a serious (if local) outbreak declines.

 

Mind, I said "expect" and "declines."  

 

And all 50 states have certified results now.  The Supreme Court already dismissed one appeal today without comment, so at this point I think the legal effort is dead.  That, of course, will not slow down the ranting.  

[TrickstaPriest]

On 12/8/2020 at 7:59 PM, unclevlad said:

And all 50 states have certified results now.  The Supreme Court already dismissed one appeal today without comment, so at this point I think the legal effort is dead.  That, of course, will not slow down the ranting.  

 

And threats and violence for years to come.

 

(edited to clear brief old rant.  just wasn't happy with it)

[Lord Liaden]

Civil war is extremely unlikely. Neither Left nor Right have dominance in enough contiguous areas for a concerted or sustained campaign that could divide the country. Scattered insurrection is possible, of course, and even likely in isolated instances. But I've noticed over the past four years that most of the most vocal supporters of the far Right tend to be long on tough talk, short on action.

[Pattern Ghost]

This is what we'll see:

 

https://www.q13fox.com/news/rally-goers-and-counter-protesters-clash-in-olympia-one-person-arrested

 

Scale may vary.

 

I do like the way they're patriotically beating other Americans with the flag. Go 'murica!

[Lord Liaden]

It could have made a big difference if the people protesting the election were getting any leadership from the top. Trump, as usual, keeps running on at the mouth but isn't actually doing anything. He wants to stir his followers up but doesn't give them any direction, doesn't organize and mobilize them. That's what a competent would-be dictator would do. Donnie just leaves them to thrash in all directions.

 

I think he's falling back on what he's done his whole career: create conflict and chaos, and hope they spawn opportunities to exploit. His appeals to his cultists to help fund his "legal challenges" looks to be one of those opportunities, namely to scam them out of the cash he desperately needs to cover his debts.

[Ternaugh]

I don't know why everyone's worried about Trump's debts. It's not like he was going to pay them....

[Lord Liaden]

If the indications of who underwrote or bought a lot of those debts are correct, they're not people you want to stiff. But hey, I'm not worried about Trump's debts. It's not like those people are coming after me. 😈

[csyphrett]

The news was reporting that Dueschbanke owns most of Trump and is hoping to sell the debt off to other people

CES

[Lord Liaden]

And Deutsche Bank has been implicated this millennium in numerous investigations and prosecutions for tax evasion, fraud, money laundering, collusion, corporate espionage, and breaking US sanctions in dealing with the likes of Iran, Syria, and Myanmar. One of its biggest alleged money-laundering operations was to the Russian government. The bank's largest stock holder is a Chinese conglomerate. Makes you wonder who they would sell Trump's debt to.

[Lord Liaden]

 

[Iuz the Evil]

17 minutes ago, Lord Liaden said:

 

The County Sheriff is an elected official, and they do have broad discretion in their jurisdiction - pretty much exactly as he indicates (good video). The District Attorney is another County elected official who will have something to say on the matter. If the DA won’t prosecute anyway, it’s effectively a moot point.

 

It’s an interesting consideration, but this isn’t a new issue at all. Law Enforcement has discretion, as evidenced every time you get a warning on a speeding ticket or do not get a warning. It’s not that significant a talking point to say “we don’t make the law, we just enforce it” - the Sheriff is exercising the authority given them by the consent of the voters.

[Lord Liaden]

3 hours ago, Iuz the Evil said:

It’s an interesting consideration, but this isn’t a new issue at all. Law Enforcement has discretion, as evidenced every time you get a warning on a speeding ticket or do not get a warning. It’s not that significant a talking point to say “we don’t make the law, we just enforce it” - the Sheriff is exercising the authority given them by the consent of the voters.

 

It is an interesting consideration. As I see it there's a big difference between discretion and defiance. These sheriffs aren't choosing when and how to enforce a law, they're openly refusing to enforce it at all. And this isn't a matter of parking tickets, it's a public health crisis. During WW II anyone in a threatened area who refused to abide by a curfew would have been putting not only himself but other people at risk, just as is the case here.

 

The county sheriffs are given authority by their voters to enforce the law within the area of their jurisdiction. They weren't given the authority to choose which laws to follow, because that's not what those voters were voting on. The legislatures, state and federal, are the ones elected and empowered to decide what laws apply, in any county.

[megaplayboy]

20 hours ago, Pattern Ghost said:

This is what we'll see:

 

https://www.q13fox.com/news/rally-goers-and-counter-protesters-clash-in-olympia-one-person-arrested

 

Scale may vary.

 

I do like the way they're patriotically beating other Americans with the flag. Go 'murica!

NSFW--dirty words

DJ Shadow - Nobody Speak feat. Run The Jewels (Official Video) - YouTube

[Iuz the Evil]

2 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

 

It is an interesting consideration. As I see it there's a big difference between discretion and defiance. These sheriffs aren't choosing when and how to enforce a law, they're openly refusing to enforce it at all. And this isn't a matter of parking tickets, it's a public health crisis. During WW II anyone in a threatened area who refused to abide by a curfew would have been putting not only himself but other people at risk, just as is the case here.

 

The county sheriffs are given authority by their voters to enforce the law within the area of their jurisdiction. They weren't given the authority to choose which laws to follow, because that's not what those voters were voting on. The legislatures, state and federal, are the ones elected and empowered to decide what laws apply, in any county.

Sure, but the prioritization of those laws IS at the discretion of the Sheriff. And the aforementioned District Attorney, who the video doesn’t mention. There are a lot of Counties even in the Bay Area (on the more restrictive side of pandemic response) who absolutely will not prosecute. I’ve heard discussions that question whether they even have the authority to do so at a local level.

 

 There’s a massive amount of local discretion, which doesn’t honestly trouble me too much. If the governor wants to take a more direct stance, he has both the authority and the resources to do so. He hasn’t done that, choosing to rely on local jurisdictions gives them discretion.

 

 Now there’s a cost for that, he can pull the Covid relief funding he provided County government. That’s very significant, it’s a lot of money. But he seems content to ignore the posturing for now.

[Lord Liaden]

It's nice that you aren't overly troubled by an exercise of discretion that will contribute to the spread of a deadly pathogen. I apologize if that comes across as too harsh, but let's not forget what's really at stake here. Going back to WW II, people breaking curfew could have lights on that would guide enemy bombers, could have blocked passage of troops or emergency crews. They would have been arrested, and justifiably so.

[Iuz the Evil]

21 minutes ago, Lord Liaden said:

22 minutes ago, Lord Liaden said:

It's nice that you aren't overly troubled by an exercise of discretion that will contribute to the spread of a deadly pathogen. I apologize if that comes across as too harsh, but let's not forget what's really at stake here. Going back to WW II, people breaking curfew could have lights on that would guide enemy bombers, could have blocked passage of troops or emergency crews. They would have been arrested, and justifiably so.

I do not care for analogies to military action, unless you are comfortable with the POTUS asserting direct control over your local jurisdictions with military troops that’s a problematic analogy to make. It is in my mind  exactly like a pandemic response, where you can certainly assert greater levels of state and federal control than have been the case.

Note I didn’t agree or defend their position, only that they do have that authority and the ability to exercise it in their office. That continues to not trouble me. They can be removed from office, or if he can pull himself away from dinner at the French Laundry, Governor Newsom has many options to bring them in line. I even listed one. 

 

He isn’t doing that at present, so it’s at their discretion. That the rule of law, they are elected officials exercising their authority within the scope of their office. Unless and until they are countered by someone with the authority to do so, they should do what they believe is their duty, whether I agree with that or not. The State has been pretty missing in action on this, aside from the occasional erratic direction by press conference. Be upset with them would be my recommendation, rather than one or two of 58 County. They are just local electeds doing what local electeds do, working to get re-elected.

 

 That’s how they roll, everywhere.

 

 If the Governor doesn’t like it, he should do something about it. That’s his role as the elected leader of the State Executive Branch. He did for those small Counties that rejected his original order and they got in line. He may yet do that with these cases, but that’s not the case today.

[death tribble]

According to the BBC there are supposed to be a few executions before Biden becomes President

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-55236260

[Starlord]

Newsmax TV scores a ratings win over Fox News for the first time ever

[Pariah]

[Starlord]

That.  Is.  Great.

 

[unclevlad]

34 minutes ago, Starlord said:

Newsmax TV scores a ratings win over Fox News for the first time ever

 

The tail end has the most salient point:  is this temporary, short-lived, driven by the moment...or is this popularity really going to last?  The latter is worrisome.  The numbers don't have to be large;  if all these networks do is to continue the extreme disinformation campaigns, they'll keep stoking the furnaces among the types that are hounding election officials' homes and families.  That will VERY likely lead to violence.