Political Discussion Thread (With Rules)

[Iuz the Evil]

SNL has really nailed it this year in my opinion re: the election. And that's a great closer.

[Hermit]

News is Nevada maybe tipped by a very angry Latino population voting against some guy

[Iuz the Evil]

News is Nevada maybe tipped by a very angry Latino population voting against some guy

Wouldn't break my heart.

[Simon]

In light of Comey stating today that the FBI's review of Huma Abedein's emails does not change their recommendation to not pursue any charges against Clinton:

 

I'm still running into people (not here, in the "real world"...which is a strange and disturbing place) that don't seem to understand the extent to which this is a non-story.  Specifically, there seems to be a lack of understanding of what the difference between a State Dept. hosted public email server and a privately hosted public email server would be.

 

The difference?  Audit.  That's it.  They both would have been _public_ email servers. They both would have handled the same traffic.  They both would have handled the same emails. They both would have been publicly accessible, with publicly known and determinable IP addresses. They both would have relied entirely on the users to prevent the transmission of classified information to non-entitled parties.  That's the nature of a public email server.  Classified information is handled on an entirely separate network (most notably, non-public).  A State Dept. run email server would have been more easily audited....and that's it.

The entire non-story is about the notion that by running an email server that wasn't under the direct control of the State Dept. that emails may not be available for FOIA requests and/or audits by the feds.   That's it.

 

As it stands, her emails have gone though more scrutiny than any other politician that I'm aware of (let alone Secretary of State).  Between the FBI's investigation and the Wikileaks releases, it's an unprecedented level of review (both public and political). The results?  She's an extremely methodical and planned/scripted politician.  That's it.  No smoking gun, no nothing.

[Tom]

Two more days, and hopefully we can get back to just complaining about politics as usual -- mostly off site.

 

On site we can spend our time posting funny stories and arguing the most efficient build for any given power, DC movies vs Marvel movies, or trying to compare Batman and Captain America.

[Pattern Ghost]

I'll say one thing: Other forums really make me appreciate this one around election time.

[Starlord]

Doubt it, in two days we will either have the worst POTUS in history or half the people in America will believe the election was rigged and stolen from them.

[Nolgroth]

Doubt it, in two days we will either have the worst POTUS in history or half the people in America will believe the election was rigged and stolen from them.

 

No matter who gets elected, the other half will be all butt sore. Just the way it is.

[womble]

Doubt it, in two days we will either have the worst POTUS in history or half the people in America will believe the election was rigged and stolen from them.

The ones who actually believe the election system is rigged must, surely, for the love of all that is good, be a vanishingly small minority. Surely? Please? Just because a few stadiums-full of brainwashed eejits Yee and Haw everything the incompetent carpetbagger spouts doesn't mean that many of the millions of people who are voting for him for understandable, though IMO misguided, reasons actually fall for every line of bull he spouts? Does it? Please, O Leftpondians, tell me it ain't so! Please?

 

Signed

Worried of Rightpondia.

[Old Man]

@Simon: The email is a big deal because people want it to be a big deal. Specifically people who have already decided that Crooked HilLIARy is crooked, and/or people desperately trying to justify their support of Trump to themselves. They can tell their friends "See, Hillary is bad too," as though sloppy IT is comparable to sexual assault, fraud, naked racism, foreign entanglements, and possibly even forcible child rape.

 

The reality is that Hillary is the most qualified and vetted presidential candidate in fifty years, but that makes no difference to people whose worldview isn't even remotely objective.

 

Don't even get me started on the media coverage.

[Iuz the Evil]

My 16 year old daughter said the following to me the other week about this election (can't remember if I already posted this): "It's like you and four friends are going out Friday night. Three of the group want to go to the movies, and two want to go kill some puppies. So you go to the movies because more of you wanted to do that, but you still have to deal with the fact that some of your group would've preferred to kill puppies. They're totally okay with that."

 

Seemed surprisingly apt as an analogy. Lots of "whoa! That's NOT okay" moments this election cycle.

[Old Man]

Incidentally, FBI director Comey has now admitted that the fishing expedition found nothing relevant on Weiner's laptop, and once again says there is no evidence of wrongdoing by Clinton or her aides.

 

Note that no one ever just asked Abedin whether they could look at her email or not, as that would have ended the theatrics before they began.

[assault]

By the way, the apparently growing tendency to elect conmen, flat-earthers, weirdos and thieves is a global phenomenon.

 

It's probably symptomatic of a real crisis. There's a bit of an impasse that mainstream politics is unable to resolve, and the people that are mostly benefiting from it are the wrong ones.

[Tom]

The ones who actually believe the election system is rigged must, surely, for the love of all that is good, be a vanishingly small minority. Surely? Please? Just because a few stadiums-full of brainwashed eejits Yee and Haw everything the incompetent carpetbagger spouts doesn't mean that many of the millions of people who are voting for him for understandable, though IMO misguided, reasons actually fall for every line of bull he spouts? Does it? Please, O Leftpondians, tell me it ain't so! Please?

 

Signed

Worried of Rightpondia.

 

Small, perhaps, relatively speaking.  Vanishingly, I'm afraid not.

 

Regardless of outcome, I expect to hear claims of voter suppression activities from the Democrats and claims of voter fraud from the Republicans.

 

Normally, I would expect to see these as odd background blurbs with no particular impact in general.

 

Given the pot Trump has been stirring, I'm not feeling as comfortable that the election will be settled quietly in the event of a Clinton victory or that the outcome will be accepted fully.

 

Normally the worst outcome I depress myself with is that 4 years down the road I'll still dislike the winner and enough people disagree with me that I'll have to suffer through 4 more years.

 

Normal isn't a word used to describe this particular election very often.

 

We can still hope the hyperbole and hyperventilation is just that and the losers will just stare in stunned disbelief for a few moments and then start muttering about 2020.

[Badger]

No matter who gets elected, the other half will be all butt sore. Just the way it is.

 

No matter which one gets elected, I will hate them.

[Lectryk]

Doubt it, in two days we will either have the worst POTUS in history or half the people in America will believe the election was rigged and stolen from them.

 

So, in other words, everyone is going to get what they expect?

[Badger]

Two more days, and hopefully we can get back to just complaining about politics as usual -- mostly off site.

 

On site we can spend our time posting funny stories and arguing the most efficient build for any given power, DC movies vs Marvel movies, or trying to compare Batman and Captain America.

 

I myself, plan on starting one of my personal HERO projects in 4 hours and will reject reality through (at least) Christmas. 

[Tom]

I myself, plan on starting one of my personal HERO projects in 4 hours and will reject reality through (at least) Christmas. 

 

I'm good with rejecting reality through xmas.

 

(work gets nutz... )

[Lord Liaden]

I'll say one thing: Other forums really make me appreciate this one around election time.

 

I have to give some of the credit to Dan Simon and his rules in keeping the tone of this discussion civil and constructive.

[Pattern Ghost]

I have to give some of the credit to Dan Simon and his rules in keeping the tone of this discussion civil and constructive.

 

Perhaps some, but we do have a pretty good crowd here, even if things sometimes get a bit heated.

[Lord Liaden]

The thread did start to go off the rails a couple of times, until Dan reined it in. Unfortunately that seems to have cost us the participation of at least two of our former forum colleagues. Omelets and eggs, I suppose.

[NuSoardGraphite]

In light of Comey stating today that the FBI's review of Huma Abedein's emails does not change their recommendation to not pursue any charges against Clinton:

 

I'm still running into people (not here, in the "real world"...which is a strange and disturbing place) that don't seem to understand the extent to which this is a non-story. Specifically, there seems to be a lack of understanding of what the difference between a State Dept. hosted public email server and a privately hosted public email server would be.

 

The difference? Audit. That's it. They both would have been _public_ email servers. They both would have handled the same traffic. They both would have handled the same emails. They both would have been publicly accessible, with publicly known and determinable IP addresses. They both would have relied entirely on the users to prevent the transmission of classified information to non-entitled parties. That's the nature of a public email server. Classified information is handled on an entirely separate network (most notably, non-public). A State Dept. run email server would have been more easily audited....and that's it.

The entire non-story is about the notion that by running an email server that wasn't under the direct control of the State Dept. that emails may not be available for FOIA requests and/or audits by the feds. That's it.

 

As it stands, her emails have gone though more scrutiny than any other politician that I'm aware of (let alone Secretary of State). Between the FBI's investigation and the Wikileaks releases, it's an unprecedented level of review (both public and political). The results? She's an extremely methodical and planned/scripted politician. That's it. No smoking gun, no nothing.

That does not change the fact that she violated the rules by recieving her government emails in a non-government server.

 

Working for the Federal government, I run into a lot, and I mean a LOT of Fed employees who are absolutely gobsmacked that nothing is happening on the email front. They make us take training every year as to the policy on how to safeguard classified and sensitive information, I have taken the training six times now, and she basically violated every rule cited in the training. Just about everyone I know who has taken this training is flabberghasted at the results of her investigation.

[Lord Liaden]

That implies Hillary was either ignorant of the rules, or willfully ignored them. Neither is exactly a positive for someone running for high office. And not changed by whether or not any harm was actually done.

[薔薇語]

"This American Life" just put out a podcast discussing the emails for ths first half that was quite interesting. Ep 601: master of her domain.

 

Soar.

[Badger]

That implies Hillary was either ignorant of the rules, or willfully ignored them. Neither is exactly a positive for someone running for high office. And not changed by whether or not any harm was actually done.

 

The thing that bothers me to add on to that.  If this had been nearly any other government employee would intent or ignorance matter?

 

Not that I expected anything to come of it (I figured her getting charged with anything at below 1 percent).  But, no matter how I look at this, I can only see it as her getting the benefit of the doubt that few if any other government employees would have gotten.  Yet, given her position, should have been held to a higher level than your average gov't employee.