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10 minutes ago, Duke Bushido said:

For thirty years, we have laughed at the defeat of our opponents, and joined in dehumanizing them.

 

This is what we built; this is what we deserve.

 

 

For thirty years I listened to people like Limbaugh and Alex Jones figuratively and literally call their opponents literal demons, and push to consider democratic voters enemies.

 

I'm not disagreeing, I'm all for outreach.

 

But letting those people lie unchallenged for decades is literally the other part of this equation.

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10 minutes ago, Duke Bushido said:

Unpopular thought that needs to be said:

 

We are seeing the end results of thirty years worth of the politics of disenfranchisement.  We sowed these seeds when we started laughing as politicians belittled "the other guys" and accepted comments like "they cant help it" and "they will never learn" and "you cant teach them" and "they have to stay in the back seat."

 

For thirty years, we have laughed at the defeat of our opponents, and joined in dehumanizing them.

 

This is what we built; this is what we deserve.

...

Only thing I would would do is push it back further than that.  Nixon's "Silent Majority" speech in 1969 played on these themes.  Could go back further than that, too; I didn't start paying attention to news until Dad was in VietNam in '67-68.  If someone can cite examples from 1964 Johnson-Goldwater I would not be surprised; I just wasn't paying attention then.

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12 minutes ago, archer said:

Law enforcement is now saying that the lady who was shot inside the Capitol building has died.

 

Ouch.  Hadn't heard that.

 

And now Trump is tweeting "this is what happens when an election is stolen."

 

He's throwing gasoline onto the fire of his own impeachment.  AND maybe an Article 25;  honestly, I think even that's on the table, and removal through that mechanism might be a heckuva lot faster than impeachment.  I won't say it's likely but I think it's possible.

 

ABC reports Bush just called Trump out.

 

EDIT:  as the active event appears to be ending, I want to say...right now, I am torn between a sigh of relief that it's over, and tears that it ever happened.  

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Just now, unclevlad said:

 

Ouch.  Hadn't heard that.

 

And now Trump is tweeting "this is what happens when an election is stolen."

 

He's throwing gasoline onto the fire of his own impeachment.  AND maybe an Article 25;  honestly, I think even that's on the table, and removal through that mechanism might be a heckuva lot faster than impeachment.  I won't say it's likely but I think it's possible.

 

ABC reports Bush just called Trump out.

 

I've heard people speculating on doing Article 25 this evening. 

 

As much as I'd like him removed, I think that's probably a mistake with an armed violent mob already right in the middle of DC.

 

There's just too much stuff that I wouldn't like to see broken and I know the authorities can't protect everything and everyone.

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1 minute ago, archer said:

 

I've heard people speculating on doing Article 25 this evening. 

 

As much as I'd like him removed, I think that's probably a mistake with an armed violent mob already right in the middle of DC.

 

There's just too much stuff that I wouldn't like to see broken and I know the authorities can't protect everything and everyone.

 

There is an answer.  Call up the National Guard and have them at least moving, THEN make the declaration.  Get a response coordinated and active first, instead of how things transpired earlier.  Expect the worst.  However, you do voice a legitimate issue.  Overall tho?  I think he can do more damage in the next 2 weeks if he's not removed, so I would prefer to see him out of office.

 

Oh, and on a side note:  inform every governor before you make the decision public.  Because it won't be just DC.  So, perhaps. make the declaration tomorrow.

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5 minutes ago, archer said:

I was vaguely amused at the prominent "Pelosi is Satan" sign.

 

It makes me want to counter-protest with a "Pelosi is Santa" sign.

 

It's funny how the names of the alleged agents of evil change over history, but the rhetoric stays the same. Democrats. Communists. Jews. Catholics. Witches. Almost as though having someone to hate is more important than who they are. :rolleyes:

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It is possible that charges against the instigators may well be escalated because now a death has occurred.  I'm not a lawyer, tho.  And if the charge is sedition, well, it doesn't get a lot more serious than that.  I just don't think a treason charge could hold up, *except* arguably against Trump himself.

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11 minutes ago, Old Man said:

Pelosi's office:

 

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The House floor:

 

spacer.png

 

Wait I thought looting was bad:

 

spacer.png

 

 

I like that middle picture.

 

The first one, the guy is just kicking back and chilling.

 

The middle picture though. It looks like the guys arrived and are like. "We finally got here and it's just an empty room. What do we do now?"

 

Kind of like the dog who chases cars then finally catches one.

1 minute ago, unclevlad said:

It is possible that charges against the instigators may well be escalated because now a death has occurred.  I'm not a lawyer, tho.  And if the charge is sedition, well, it doesn't get a lot more serious than that.  I just don't think a treason charge could hold up, *except* arguably against Trump himself.

 

Sort of depends on how thorough the investigation goes.

 

If they look at the social media and find the person is talking about overthrowing the election or the government....

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2 hours ago, tkdguy said:

Edit: I hope that at least some of the members of Congress who have been planning to object to the count withdraw their objections after this, but that may be asking for too much.

Washington State Rep. Cathy McMorris Rogers, hitherto a complete Trump loyalist, has withdrawn her intent to object. So that's something, at least.

 

Dean Shomshak

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4 minutes ago, archer said:

Sort of depends on how thorough the investigation goes.

 

If they look at the social media and find the person is talking about overthrowing the election or the government....

 

By the wording in USC, I think that is still sedition.  And really, I'm not sure even Trump's call to action rises to the standard of making war against the government.  Seditious insurrection?  Yes.  (Also note, I believe someone convicted of this is barred from holding US office.)  But is this an act of war, by the statutory definition of the term?  Probably not.  

2 minutes ago, DShomshak said:

Washington State Rep. Cathy McMorris Rogers, hitherto a complete Trump loyalist, has withdrawn her intent to object. So that's something, at least.

 

Dean Shomshak

 

And Trump is exhorting them to continue.

So this is why I consider this a watershed moment.  If the objections are continued, those who do so are actively siding with violence.

Note:  CBS News' numbers, with 99% of the vote in, show 33, 000 vote margin for Ossuff, which is > 0.7%.  Recount is only 0.5%

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34 minutes ago, unclevlad said:

It is possible that charges against the instigators may well be escalated because now a death has occurred.  I'm not a lawyer, tho.  And if the charge is sedition, well, it doesn't get a lot more serious than that.  I just don't think a treason charge could hold up, *except* arguably against Trump himself.

 

I would extend that to his toadies as well. 

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1 hour ago, TrickstaPriest said:

 

For thirty years I listened to people like Limbaugh and Alex Jones figuratively and literally call their opponents literal demons, and push to consider democratic voters enemies.

 

I'm not disagreeing, I'm all for outreach.

 

But letting those people lie unchallenged for decades is literally the other part of this equation.

What other part?

 

What did  I say that wven _suggested_ this is a one- sided problem?

 

Both side-   no, screw that, because the third and fourth side do ir as week: I ought to know, as they twnd to be my preferwnce anyway.  It dowsnt get reported, because playing it up as there are only two sides gets us exciting news, big views, commercial revenue, and an easy-to-program audience.

 

Every single side does it.

 

Its disgusting.

 

But see how easy it was to just point at a handful of the other guys and acvuse them of the thing that every one of them on every side does?

 

We've accepted it as how it works, and it is dispicable to a person.  Pick any horse you want, no matter how short or high it is, but ultimately, there isnt a person in this country who hasnt contributed to the disenfanchisement of the other guy, and now we enjoy what we planted.

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3 minutes ago, tkdguy said:

 

I would extend that to his toadies as well. 

 

I get it, but I think you're letting your anger and disgust have too much sway.  I also think such a move would be very disruptive to the political process, and itself actually damage democracy.  It's like, well now that we're in power and Trump isn't, we can punish his supporters for supporting him.  Doesn't this feel rather Trumpian in its own right?

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2 minutes ago, unclevlad said:

 

I get it, but I think you're letting your anger and disgust have too much sway.  I also think such a move would be very disruptive to the political process, and itself actually damage democracy.  It's like, well now that we're in power and Trump isn't, we can punish his supporters for supporting him.  Doesn't this feel rather Trumpian in its own right?

 

I think you're right. I'm having a few personal issues exacerbating my anger at this situation. But I do think Giuliani and company should be held accountable for their role in all this.

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