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I feel this needs to be shared.  

You remember 4, 8, and 12 years ago a candidate going so far beyond the pale that their own party disavowed their statements? You remember former Presidents from the candidate's own party refusing to

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If roughly half of the nation identifies as Democrat/liberal, then...that figure is disconcerting/disheartening instead of uplifting. The vast majority of Democrats/liberals want Trump gone; there may be a few Republicans plus Independents that also want him gone, but most of that 57% are Democrats/liberals. Most people in that remaining 43% are Republicans or Independents. *sigh*.

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On 1/10/2021 at 10:12 PM, Lord Liaden said:

I do believe that W truly thinks he acted for the greater good, and genuinely wanted to make life better for people in America and elsewhere in the world. I don't consider him an evil man, but he is an unexceptional man, having taken on a responsibility that was beyond his capacity.

 

I am truly disturbed to see even this amount of Bush Jr. defense around wars that never should have happened.

 

On 1/10/2021 at 9:54 PM, Old Man said:

 

W started a war under false pretenses and openly supported a program of torture and indefinite incarceration without trial.  These are war crimes for which he has been convicted in international court.

 

For what it's worth, I agree with Ragitsu that W still holds the WPE title belt, but only because I never considered Trump a legitimate POTUS.

 

Thank you. I vehemently oppose any attempt to rehabilitate that man and/or his cronies.

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12 minutes ago, Ragitsu said:

I am truly disturbed to see even this amount of Bush Jr. defense around wars that never should have happened.

 

Thank you. I vehemently oppose any attempt to rehabilitate that man and/or his cronies.

 

The fact that you despise George W. Bush, and even that you have good reasons for doing so, doesn't mean that everyone else is required to to feel the same way, or that they are wrong if they don't. Having a different opinion than you have does not necessarily equate to trying to 'rehabilitate' the man's image.

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31 minutes ago, Ragitsu said:

 

I am truly disturbed to see even this amount of Bush Jr. defense around wars that never should have happened.

 

 

Thank you. I vehemently oppose any attempt to rehabilitate that man and/or his cronies.

I didn't say Bush was a good president. i said he was better than Trump. Going to war is not war crimes.  

CES 

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24 minutes ago, Pariah said:

 

The fact that you despise George W. Bush, and even that you have good reasons for doing so, doesn't mean that everyone else is required to to feel the same way, or that they are wrong if they don't. Having a different opinion than you have does not necessarily equate to trying to 'rehabilitate' the man's image.

 

Reasons - ones well established in the United States at large, by this point, by the way -  I thought were shared here. Apparently, that is not true. In any case, I'm breaking off from this tangent.

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1 hour ago, Ragitsu said:

 

If roughly half of the nation identifies as Democrat/liberal, then...that figure is disconcerting/disheartening instead of uplifting. The vast majority of Democrats/liberals want Trump gone; there may be a few Republicans plus Independents that also want him gone, but most of that 57% are Democrats/liberals. Most people in that remaining 43% are Republicans or Independents. *sigh*.

 

There's at least a small chance that a number of Democrats are looking at the Republican Party self-destruct and are answering the poll strategically:

 

"Trump is going to be gone in a few days anyway. Maybe it's better for him to stay on and put the last few nails in the coffin of the Republican Party rather than allowing the Republicans to be publicly cleansed of him."

 

Arguably (if the country were to survive the last few days of Trump), having the Republican Party tie itself in knots over the next four years over "whether to be loyal to Trump or not" rather than being able to focus on blocking Biden could work to the Democrat's advantage.

 

And as much as Democrats detest Trump, I'm seeing a lot of celebratory attitude from Democrats in various forums as the Republican party in recent days has been revealing who they really are (or "who they really are" if you're the kind of person who prefers air quotes around that statement).

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2 minutes ago, archer said:

 

There's at least a small chance that a number of Democrats are looking at the Republican Party self-destruct and are answering the poll strategically:

 

"Trump is going to be gone in a few days anyway. Maybe it's better for him to stay on and put the last few nails in the coffin of the Republican Party rather than allowing the Republicans to be publicly cleansed of him."

 

Arguably (if the country were to survive the last few days of Trump), having the Republican Party tie itself in knots over the next four years over "whether to be loyal to Trump or not" rather than being able to focus on blocking Biden could work to the Democrat's advantage.

 

And as much as Democrats detest Trump, I'm seeing a lot of celebratory attitude from Democrats in various forums as the Republican party in recent days has been revealing who they really are (or "who they really are" if you're the kind of person who prefers air quotes around that statement).

I could see a number of Trump opponents (on all sides of the political fence) thinking "it's less than two weeks - focus the attention and effort on something longer-lasting".

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3 minutes ago, Hugh Neilson said:

I could see a number of Trump opponents (on all sides of the political fence) thinking "it's less than two weeks - focus the attention and effort on something longer-lasting".

 

I really think those people don't realize how irrational he is...

 

Not that I think acting out of pure fear is appropriate, but at this point?

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1 hour ago, Pariah said:

 

The fact that you despise George W. Bush, and even that you have good reasons for doing so, doesn't mean that everyone else is required to to feel the same way, or that they are wrong if they don't. Having a different opinion than you have does not necessarily equate to trying to 'rehabilitate' the man's image.

 

While I agree with that point itself, I am having to seriously restrain myself from going on an extended rant about the stupidities of W's Iraq War and the abysmal stupidity of the president who chose conduct it.

 

But frankly, in the middle of a possible impeachment and possible coup isn't the best time to start an extended discussion on another, very complicated, subject.

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3 hours ago, Ragitsu said:

 

I am truly disturbed to see even this amount of Bush Jr. defense around wars that never should have happened.

 

 

Didn't intend to disturb you, sorry. Perhaps it's the outsider's perspective, never having had a horse directly in America's race. And that's from a country which declined to join Bush's coalition against Iraq, and was excoriated for it.

 

I in no way support or condone Bush's policies in Iraq, but I stand by my assessment of the man himself.

 

6 minutes ago, archer said:

Some random comments from another forum...

 

Other guy: "We wouldn't have this problem if Republicans fought like democrats."

 

Me: "Go to Canada if drafted?"

 

Thanks to Americans for coming BTW. We received a large wave of bright, motivated young people. They really made a positive contribution to my country.

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House Republican Conference Chair Liz Cheney (Wyo.), the No. 3 Republican in the House, announced Tuesday that she plans to vote to impeach President Trump for inciting a violent mob at the Capitol.

 

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/533926-cheney-says-shell-vote-to-impeach-trump

 

She's been very vocally anti-Trump for a long while now. But it's still refreshing to see one of the Republican leadership in the House come out publicly for impeachment ahead of the vote.

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I usually don't read much into symbolism playing to specific groups in American politics...

 

But Trump goes to the Alamo just prior to the planned violent pro-Trump demonstrations in DC and every state capital.

 

So the Alamo is most known for people who were willing to literally fight to the death for a political cause against overwhelming odds. And because they were willing to do that, their side ultimately triumphed.

 

 

I think that goes quite a bit beyond heavy-handed in the symbolism department....

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... though a large number of the early Texians went to Texas to escape debts, i.e., get out from under the thumbs of the richest people and entities in the US.  As a member of the exploitative class the Texians fled, for Trump to go there is doubling down on both the irony and the betrayal he's performed on the rural white population which provide a lot of the insurrectionists.

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I'm seeing a LOT of people equivocate how unfair it is that the left forgives the protests and riots but gets upset at this one.

 

A literally childish "whaaaaaat's the difffff."

 

ex: they didn't attempt a coup, it was just trespassing.  None of the members of Congress were in any danger.  If there was someone being inappropriate, why weren't they immediately arrested?!?!?!  after all they have the best police there 

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Some more random comments from another forum...

 

First guy: "These are armed, well organized right wing militias who have bigger plans and Trump, by not saying anything encourages these terrorists. Their plans are to take down politicians, starting with Biden."

 

Second guy: "Oddly enough they were chanting...."Hang Mike Pence"

 

Me: "Oddly enough, his wife wasn't trying to convince anyone that he was already hung."

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If he’s impeached, pence can pardon him. So I’m torn - I’m pretty sure we (all of us on earth) a a bit less safe with him in office, but I long to see him prosecuted. He will doubtless attempt to pardon himself, and it’s definitely about time the pardon power was limited in some way (by judicial fiat) but Pence’s power to pardon him seems plenary to me unless pence is a codefendant.

 

If we don’t prosecute him, government corruption becomes even more open and free of consequences. We clearly need to rein it in a great deal. 

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56 minutes ago, archer said:

I usually don't read much into symbolism playing to specific groups in American politics...

 

But Trump goes to the Alamo just prior to the planned violent pro-Trump demonstrations in DC and every state capital.

 

So the Alamo is most known for people who were willing to literally fight to the death for a political cause against overwhelming odds. And because they were willing to do that, their side ultimately triumphed.

 

 

I think that goes quite a bit beyond heavy-handed in the symbolism department....

 

Actually, Trump went to Alamo, TX, and not San Antonio, where the Alamo really is. Maybe Rudy made his travel plans.

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